Manchester United

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Man Utd shouldn’t be looking at a top 4 finish for ages IMO. There are now 7 teams, plus them and Spurs, for 4/5 CL places. 
 

A couple of good seasons with Europa qualification, while stabilising the situation, would be progress. 

[Froggy]

8 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

We saw a vast improvement in our performances individually and as a team pretty much immediately and they only got better and better. 

 

You will laugh I'm sure, but our performances were improving massively. There's just a mentality issue within the squad. Once there was nothing to play for in the league they completely sacked it off and performances dropped.

 

Amorim will get 4-6 players this summer and in January in addition to Dorgu and will probably be expected to achieve European football or he'll lose his job. That's my guess.

[magorific]

24 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Which bit? Because that's all cold hard facts. 

Howe’s first PL season at NUFC: 43 points in 26 games.

Amorim’s first PL season at MUFC:

25 pts in 27 games.

Facts.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by magorific

[Froggy]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Man Utd shouldn’t be looking at a top 4 finish for ages IMO. There are now 7 teams, plus them and Spurs, for 4/5 CL places. 
 

A couple of good seasons with Europa qualification, while stabilising the situation, would be progress. 

 

They might have beaten us last night, but if there's one team I have zero worry about it's Spurs. They were honking last night, which is what makes the defeat embarrassing. 

[FLUMPO235]

7 hours ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

That’s like watching Alan partridge and Owen jones love child off his tits on cocaine and redbull.

[Froggy]

Just now, magorific said:

Howe’s first PL season at NUFC: 43 points in 26 games.

Amorim’s first PL season at MUFC:

46 pts in 28 games.

Facts.

 

That's correct. Howe also had £100m worth of signings in January and was able to full focus on the league from January until the end of the season.

 

Once again, I'm a huge fan of Eddie Howe. Just stating that Amorim deserves more time, and Howe's success can be used as an example of why.

[Displayname]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

That's correct. Howe also had £100m worth of signings in January and was able to full focus on the league from January until the end of the season.

 

Once again, I'm a huge fan of Eddie Howe. Just stating that Amorim deserves more time, and Howe's success can be used as an example of why.

Hard to see how its correct when Man Utd dont even have 46 points in total this season

 

Eddie was left with a shit team he turned into having an average season. Amorin was left with an average team he turned into having a shit season.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Displayname

[Kid Icarus]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

You will laugh I'm sure, but our performances were improving massively. There's just a mentality issue within the squad. Once there was nothing to play for in the league they completely sacked it off and performances dropped.

 

Amorim will get 4-6 players this summer and in January in addition to Dorgu and will probably be expected to achieve European football or he'll lose his job. That's my guess.

I'd have to take your word on that one. I'm not sure what stage it was at, but I definitely remember watching you and thinking you'd gotten even worse than under ETH. 

 

I think the marked difference is that Howe didn't come in and immediately distance himself from the performances and the club in the way that Amorim does, he owned everything and improved every single player that was already there and had been battling relegation for ages.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Kid Icarus

[Elma]

1 minute ago, Displayname said:

Hard to see how its correct when Man Utd dont even have 46 points in total this season

 

I was thinking the same. Ten Hag left them on 11 points after 9 games so it looks like Amorim has them 28 points from 28 games. 

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, magorific said:

Howe’s first PL season at NUFC: 43 points in 26 games.

Amorim’s first PL season at MUFC:

46 pts in 28 games.

Facts.

 

 

 

?? It can't be that.

 

It's 24 points in 26 games 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Kid Icarus

[The College Dropout]

10 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Man Utd shouldn’t be looking at a top 4 finish for ages IMO. There are now 7 teams, plus them and Spurs, for 4/5 CL places. 
 

A couple of good seasons with Europa qualification, while stabilising the situation, would be progress. 

They are always a good manager and window away from CL

[Froggy]

5 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Hard to see how its correct when Man Utd dont even have 46 points in total this season

 

I didn't read it to be fair.  Just noticed the comparison between the two and wanted to be quick to note about how much more money Howe got to spend in January than Amorim.

[Sima]

Yeah, but that ignores the situation that Amorim inherited a team that had won a major domestic trophy in each of the two previous seasons and Howe inherited a load of no hopers bottom of the league.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Sima

[Abacus]

9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I'd have to take your word on that one. I'm not sure what stage it was at, but I definitely remember watching you and thinking you'd gotten even worse than under ETH. 

 

I think the marked difference is that Howe didn't come in and immediate distance himself from the performances, he owned everything and improved every single player that was already there and had been battling relegation for ages.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't think he's questioning the job Howe has done at all. Just pointing out that Amorim needs time and resources. 

 

I quite like that attitude. You can imagine the online knee-jerk responses even on here if roles were reversed. I was mainly asking what Amorim had done to justify that faith. If their fans see it, fine.

 

There however is a huge risk if they get it wrong as well, and stick with someone who turns out not to be right, having rebuilt a team for his system before then getting fired.

 

We really hit the jackpot with Howe.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Abacus

[Geogaddi]

37 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

If anything, Howe should be used as an example. He came in at the same time of the season Amorim did. You were already out of the league cup, and suffered a humiliating defeat by Cambridge under Howe in the FA Cup. No European football to contend with either unlike Amorim. He was able to fully focus on the league, but still started with 1 win his first 9 I believe? And that win was against a team that ended up relegated. He got wins against teams like Everton, Southampton, Leeds etc. who were all circling the relegation drain, but got slapped by the better sides, including Spurs.

 

Now look at Howe and what he has done with the side. I remember the forum at the time as well when it started poorly. Mouthpieces like Nobody suggesting he wasn't up to it and you should have gone for someone else.

 

Howe has been given half a billion to spend since then. Let us given Amorim even a single summer transfer window before judging him maybe? 

It took him a good few months to clean up the mess Bruce left plus our squad was far worse than what Amorim has now .

 

We got hammered by Spurs but by the end of the season we were beating Arsenal, which stopped them qualifying for the champions league. You could see the amount of progress we had made in such a short amount of time . Amorim had had Europe fair enough but the standard this year in that competition was so poor.  He hardly had to do much to get that Man United team to the final and in the end couldn't even beat Spurs who have been a laughing stock all season long .

 

Original point being Eddie inherited a far worse mess than Amorim did and didn't need to rely on any sort of system to improve it.

[Froggy]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I'd have to take your word on that one. I'm not sure what stage it was at, but I definitely remember watching you and thinking you'd gotten even worse than under ETH. 

 

I think the marked difference is that Howe didn't come in and immediately distance himself from the performances and the club in the way that Amorim does, he owned everything and improved every single player that was already there and had been battling relegation for ages.

 

I don't think Amorim does that at all. He talks about how it's his job to improve the team and that it ultimately lies with him and if he can't turn it around he will walk. He's also open and honest about how bad it is, because that's the truth. I know that's not how all managers are, and I'm not saying it's definitely the right way to be either but it's quite refreshing.

 

The thing with Ten Hag is that he was brought in to play the same football he played at Ajax. He tried it, it didn't work, and then he went back to playing the way Ole did. Literally within the first few games as well. He got pelters from opposition fans and the media for not having his own style of play and he ended up being very pragmatic to try and win games. He won us two trophies, but you didn't know how he was going to set up from one game to the next. I don't think those players had a clue what was going on.

 

Amorim has had ups and downs, but at least he has his way of playing. We can build an identity under him. We've improved in a lot of areas, but are still miserable in others. I do genuinely think a good RWB and a top striker makes a huge, huge difference though. I just want this season to end so we can find out.

[The College Dropout]

Ange staying at Spurs and Amorim staying at Man U is the stuff of dreams.

[clintdempsey]

It's a clusterfuck of a situation. I think it's fair to say that Amorim deserves more time. I also think it's completely fair to say that they have looked utter shit for the most part under him this far.
Man Utd need a clear out and bring some fresh blood and energy in to the squad and they will be fine next season. Not challenging for CL places maybe but at least having a go at getting into Europe again.

As fun as it is watching one of the traditional "big" clubs failing we all know this feeling as fans, we've been there as well too many times. It's fucking shit tbh.
Add to that the slight problem with totally unlikable owners and an aging, overpaid squad and it's not much fun at all.

As to the debate in regards to Howe vs. Amorim, it's blatantly obvious that Howe had a better first 7 months in the seat than Amorim has had whichever way you look at it.

[bobbydazzla]

52 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

If anything, Howe should be used as an example. He came in at the same time of the season Amorim did. You were already out of the league cup, and suffered a humiliating defeat by Cambridge under Howe in the FA Cup. No European football to contend with either unlike Amorim. He was able to fully focus on the league, but still started with 1 win his first 9 I believe? And that win was against a team that ended up relegated. He got wins against teams like Everton, Southampton, Leeds etc. who were all circling the relegation drain, but got slapped by the better sides, including Spurs.

 

Now look at Howe and what he has done with the side. I remember the forum at the time as well when it started poorly. Mouthpieces like Nobody suggesting he wasn't up to it and you should have gone for someone else.

 

Howe has been given half a billion to spend since then. Let us given Amorim even a single summer transfer window before judging him maybe? 

 

Gubbins

 

Howe got a tune out of a team that was absolutely stinking out the league prior to his arrival. He used the dogshit cards he'd been dealt and still steered us away from what looked like a nailed on relegation

 

Even the fact that Trippier, Bruno and others were persuaded to join a relegation bound side that had been shite for over a decade is testament to the vision and positive atmosphere he'd created at the club 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by bobbydazzla

[Geordie_once_removed]

I watched the second half and it was really low quality stuff. Man U were so bad they couldn't make Spurs, who were doing the footballing equivalent of curling up into a ball on the ground, Spurs it.

 

Fingers crossed this gives Ange a few months at Spurs and stops Man U buying Delap or similar who could help them get out of this increasingly deep selfdug hole of theirs.

[JP]

15 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I didn't read it to be fair.  Just noticed the comparison between the two and wanted to be quick to note about how much more money Howe got to spend in January than Amorim.

 

Amorim also inherited a squad that had 3/4 of a million spent on it in the last 4 years.

Howe inherited a Mike Ashley shitshow.

 

Howe massively improved what he already had - Schar, Murphy and Joelinton 3 of our best players this season in fact.

Has Amorim improved what's already there?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by JP

[Sibierski]

Amorim has shown nothing to deserve more time. They consistently look fucking shit and out of ideas against Premier League sides, the bread and butter to succeed.

 

Slapping Cunha and some RWB in the side isn’t going to shift things up. For all of the possession Man Utd had yesterday, there was NO patterns of play to open up Spurs. Crosses were best option and didn’t latch onto that idea till final 5 mins when it was desperation mode again. The best chance somehow in the whole half was to Spurs in their only attack, two v one where Solanke fucked it.

 

There are no green shoots in his time there, taking over a team 4 points off UCL, and won a cup last two seasons, to think he is the guy. I hope they do keep him though, because 3 at the back will heavily limit how far they can go, but Ratcliffe has sacked managers for a lot less at Nice.

[KingArthur]

37 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Which bit? Because that's all cold hard facts. 

He won against Burnley (4th game).

But during that spring, we won against Everton, Leeds, Aston Villa, Brentford, Brighton, Southampton, Wolves, Leicester, Crystal Palace, Norwich, Arsenal and Burnley x2. That is 13 wins. How many you got with Amorim in the league with a lot better squad?

 

I think that is a bit different than first 6 months for Amorim?

[Mikky]

4 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

Gubbins

 

Howe got a tune out of a team that was absolutely stinking out the league prior to his arrival. He used the dogshit cards he'd been dealt and still steered us away from what looked like a nailed on relegation

 

Even the fact that Trippier, Bruno and others were persuaded to join a relegation bound side that had been shite for over a decade is testament to the vision and positive atmosphere he'd created at the club 

 

 

 

 

 

With 2 weeks changed a negative 5–4-1 formation to a high speed pressing machine  - quite astonishing what he did considering 3 of the signings were Burn, Targett and Wood and Bruno didn’t start until game 6 I think 

[Erikse]

27 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

That's correct. Howe also had £100m worth of signings in January and was able to full focus on the league from January until the end of the season.

 

Once again, I'm a huge fan of Eddie Howe. Just stating that Amorim deserves more time, and Howe's success can be used as an example of why.

 

It was mostly just Burn, Targett and an out of form Chris Wood. Trippier played like 2-3 games and got injured for 3 months or so. Bruno sat on the bench through our massive streak after january, and he barely got minutes at all until there were only a few games left. Howe likes to do that with players from other leagues, like a "bed in" time.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Erikse