Hatem Ben Arfa (still a free agent)

[Mole_Toonfan]

As was previously mentioned, the majority of the blame for HBA's career not taking off to its potential lies with HBA himself.

He can be mismanaged in one or two systems, with one or two managers - but every single one he has worked under? Suspicious.

 

We will never know if he's a total cock, but there must be a reason why.

 

It is sad to see such a talent wasted.

 

I'll end with a line I have repeated - I would love HBA in our club at this point in time, but others have produced more than him and got less plaudits.

 

Yeah manager's like to use players to get people to ignore their own deficiencies, it's pretty obvious.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

So the issue is that flair players get more attention than centre backs?

 

Reckon you're just going to have to deal with that one like.

 

That isn't the issue at all, MYM was just the first name to come to mind.

My issue was with HBA's work-rate and half arsed appearances but being classed as a hero on here whilst others with a similar work-rate are absolutely battered.

 

Being good at football doesn't make you immune to critics.

He's a direct winger who plays in bursts. His work rate was completely fine 

 

It's like complaining about Tim Krul because he's not running up the pitch and diving into challenges.

 

For crying out loud, work-rate is not just running around and challenging.

He is a flair winger, who's role is to create and score goals... Sadly in my opinion, he did not do it enough. He'd frequently fade out of games if it was not going his way.

[Hanshithispantz]

I seem to remember Ben Arfa creating chances in 90% of the games he played in. Off the top of my head, he probably only had four or five games when things didn't go for him.

 

He may have been half arsed in training(allegedly) but on the pitch where it mattered, he was always looking to make things happen.

I don't know if they're still up but you could literally Google 80-90% of the games he started in and there was some 5 minute compilation video of him rinsing defenders

[joeyt]

I| would love HBA in our club at this point in time, but others have produced more than him and got less plaudits.

 

 

Such as who?

[Hanshithispantz]

So the issue is that flair players get more attention than centre backs?

 

Reckon you're just going to have to deal with that one like.

 

That isn't the issue at all, MYM was just the first name to come to mind.

My issue was with HBA's work-rate and half arsed appearances but being classed as a hero on here whilst others with a similar work-rate are absolutely battered.

 

Being good at football doesn't make you immune to critics.

He's a direct winger who plays in bursts. His work rate was completely fine 

 

It's like complaining about Tim Krul because he's not running up the pitch and diving into challenges.

 

For crying out loud, work-rate is not just running around and challenging.

He is a flair winger, who's role is to create and score goals... Sadly in my opinion, he did not do it enough. He'd frequently fade out of games if it was not going his way.

He created and scored loads of goals, partly because his work rate was absolutely fine.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Same would happen to any other player of that type here, Lionel Messi would be accused of being lazy and not putting a shift in and then we'd sell him and say that's a waste of talent.

 

News flash: Forwards are not supposed to be so deep that they are defending their own box and picking the ball up 80 yards from goal.

[KaKa]

You can say Pardew and Bruce "ruined" him, those damn English dinosaurs, but in reality Gerets, Perrin, Houllier and Deschamps did the same thing in France.

 

Fact if, if 6 managers (I'm using the term lightly with Pards and Bruce) thought he wasn't worth their time, then maybe they are right.

 

I absolutely hate this argument.

 

Lyon and Marseille were top teams in France and competing for the title were they not? There were other really good players in those teams, and with him being younger and less disciplined it was always going to be difficult for him to just play his game, and he always got frustrated with that.

 

However, we are Newcastle and are nowhere near the levels of the teams he had been in. We are absolutely shit. There's no fucking reason he should not be playing 90 mins every week in our team. No way.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

I| would love HBA in our club at this point in time, but others have produced more than him and got less plaudits.

 

 

Such as who?

 

Jack Colback?

 

 

 

 

Nah, I'm kidding, just wanted you to rage inside for a moment.

 

One random example, Albert.

[Astroblack]

Exactly. We play in slow motion but when Ben Arfa got the ball, he actually looked like a footballer. Trying to play one-two, driving at defenses, playing reverse passes, diagonals, he did it all.

 

I remember him coming on against Arsenal and everyone from their team trying to get the ball off him but couldn't. He probably played 20 minutes that game and did more than anyone else did. If there was ever a player to be excused from tracking back, it was him, because he was so much more dangerous with the ball and in space. Ridiculous that he doesn't play here anymore. He actually gave a fuck.

[Hanshithispantz]

It would be canny strange of us to all randomly start gracing a player who left us nearly 2 decades ago with plaudits like

 

Albert was class, if you ask anyone they'll say he was class. He's hardly the hot topic at the moment like, neither's Hughie Gallacher.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

It would be canny strange of us to all randomly start gracing a player who left us nearly 2 decades ago with plaudits like

 

Albert was class, if you ask anyone they'll say he was class. He's hardly the hot topic at the moment like, neither's Hughie Gallacher.

 

THIS is my argument with HBA!

He does not play for us anymore! Why are we randomly gracing him with praise?

Hit. Nail. Head.

 

I've agreed he is class, I've agreed that we need him, but the same all applies to Albert.

[joeyt]

I| would love HBA in our club at this point in time, but others have produced more than him and got less plaudits.

 

 

Such as who?

 

Jack Colback?

 

 

 

 

Nah, I'm kidding, just wanted you to rage inside for a moment.

 

One random example, Albert.

 

Comparing his plaudits with a player that played before internet messageboards :lol:

[Darth Crooks]

Hughie Gallacher in his current form would probably be more use than Ryan Taylor

[Hanshithispantz]

It would be canny strange of us to all randomly start gracing a player who left us nearly 2 decades ago with plaudits like

 

Albert was class, if you ask anyone they'll say he was class. He's hardly the hot topic at the moment like, neither's Hughie Gallacher.

 

THIS is my argument with HBA!

He does not play for us anymore! Why are we randomly gracing him with praise?

Hit. Nail. Head.

 

I've agreed he is class, I've agreed that we need him, but the same all applies to Albert.

But he played for us like a year ago and the people who are involved with him leaving a still in charge of the club, the players who have took his place are still at the club etc. I imagine it'll down die a touch in 20 years time.

 

It would be the same if Cabaye or Debuchy left us in dodgy circumstances.

[Hanshithispantz]

In fact it still happens with Marveaux.

 

A player who many recognise is not a world beater, and in an ideal world wouldn't have been in our starting XI every week, but the circumstances behind him not playing lead to people talking about the issue more than normal.

[Elliottman]

I| would love HBA in our club at this point in time, but others have produced more than him and got less plaudits.

 

 

Such as who?

 

Jack Colback?

 

 

 

 

Nah, I'm kidding, just wanted you to rage inside for a moment.

 

One random example, Albert.

 

wtf 

[Figures 1-0 Football]

In fact it still happens with Marveaux.

 

A player who many recognise is not a world beater, and in an ideal world wouldn't have been in our starting XI every week, but the circumstances behind him not playing lead to people talking about the issue more than normal.

 

Another player I'd like to have in the team at this current moment.

I've always thought there is something there with Marveaux and agree he was heavily mismanaged at NUFC.

 

However, Marveaux is still contracted to us - so he is still worth discussing/crying over why he is not playing. HBA is not.

[Hanshithispantz]

I cannot even believe I'm indulging in a conversation with someone who's trying to tell me what I can and cannot discuss like, what the fuck am I doing?

 

In a bit.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

I cannot even believe I'm indulging in a conversation with someone who's trying to tell me what I can and cannot discuss like, what the f*** am I doing?

 

In a bit.

 

Very well constructed reply.

Have I once said that YOU cannot discuss HBA? No. I've made a point that I feel discussing him is pointless because he doesn't play for us.

What is wrong with that?

[Wullie]

For me, the best example of the sort of thing he had to put up with was when he put Stoke to the sword on that Boxing Day. 5-1 win, Ben Arfa set up three of them. The BBC match report said this:

 

But it was another Frenchman who shone in this fixture as Hatem Ben Arfa - starting in place of the suspended Cheick Tiote - proved a constant menace.

The midfielder's flair and invention troubled the Stoke defence from the outset and the former Marseille man produced the home side's first real chance when he curled an effort just wide.

 

Three days later we played Arsenal, with one change. Ben Arfa out, Tiote back in, Gouffran still on the field and we lost the game to nil. Arsene Wenger was quoted afterwards by a French journalist as saying "I was scared when you came on Hatem."  Ben Arfa didn't start another league game for over a month.

 

How can any footballer succeed in that managerial environment, where they're not rewarded for good performances but are always punished for poor ones? I'm pretty sure you can make any footballer look like they're acting the prick, if you deliberately set out to be a complete cunt to them, even moreso if they're already known for being temperamental. Pardew played our gullible fans like a fucking fiddle.

[Superior Acuña]

The Ben Arfa situation is highly relevant to our current situation man. The ownership and most of the coaches that got rid of him are still here, Ben Arfa would still be a Newcastle player if he hadn't been driven out. And given that we could be relegated, losing an effective player is highly consequential for the club.

 

Albert is about as directly relevant to our current football situation as the Prince Albert that Hans probably has and IanW wishes he had.

[Robbo]

For me, the best example of the sort of thing he had to put up with was when he put Stoke to the sword on that Boxing Day. 5-1 win, Ben Arfa set up three of them. The BBC match report said this:

 

But it was another Frenchman who shone in this fixture as Hatem Ben Arfa - starting in place of the suspended Cheick Tiote - proved a constant menace.

The midfielder's flair and invention troubled the Stoke defence from the outset and the former Marseille man produced the home side's first real chance when he curled an effort just wide.

 

Three days later we played Arsenal, with one change. Ben Arfa out, Tiote back in, Gouffran still on the field and we lost the game to nil. Arsene Wenger was quoted afterwards by a French journalist as saying "I was scared when you came on Hatem."  Ben Arfa didn't start another league game for over a month.

 

How can any footballer succeed in that managerial environment, where they're not rewarded for good performances but are always punished for poor ones? I'm pretty sure you can make any footballer look like they're acting the prick, if you deliberately set out to be a complete c*** to them, even moreso if they're already known for being temperamental. Pardew played our gullible fans like a f***ing fiddle.

 

Hit the post, hit the bar and should've had another pen also. Absolutely abused them that night

[DJ_NUFC]

For me, the best example of the sort of thing he had to put up with was when he put Stoke to the sword on that Boxing Day. 5-1 win, Ben Arfa set up three of them. The BBC match report said this:

 

But it was another Frenchman who shone in this fixture as Hatem Ben Arfa - starting in place of the suspended Cheick Tiote - proved a constant menace.

The midfielder's flair and invention troubled the Stoke defence from the outset and the former Marseille man produced the home side's first real chance when he curled an effort just wide.

 

Three days later we played Arsenal, with one change. Ben Arfa out, Tiote back in, Gouffran still on the field and we lost the game to nil. Arsene Wenger was quoted afterwards by a French journalist as saying "I was scared when you came on Hatem."  Ben Arfa didn't start another league game for over a month.

 

How can any footballer succeed in that managerial environment, where they're not rewarded for good performances but are always punished for poor ones? I'm pretty sure you can make any footballer look like they're acting the prick, if you deliberately set out to be a complete cunt to them, even moreso if they're already known for being temperamental. Pardew played our gullible fans like a fucking fiddle.

 

The rewriting of history by Pardew and fans of HBA's time here is the biggest success story of this fucking regime, and many of our neanderthal fans, pundits, media and fans of other clubs have bought it hook, line and sinker. The fact that this debate is still taking place after a plethora of evidence to the contrary tells you why we have the political and financial systems we currently have with the 1% absolutely taking the piss out of the 99% of serfs.

[angrypirate71]

I| would love HBA in our club at this point in time, but others have produced more than him and got less plaudits.

 

 

I'd actually say no-one has done more and got less plaudits, in the wider fanbase and media. Your recollection of Hatem's workrate and output would support this.

The only thing this board has built up is the fairly logical notion of Hatem as the antidote to the disease at the club, because he looked like he gave a shit (baffled as to how some think otherwise).

The concession I would give to the anti-HBA argument is he may be hard to communicate with, on and off the pitch - and that, combined with the coaches/players/managers we have, has led to where he is now.

I don't believe he's unmanageable though and his treatment here was a piss take at times. CBA to discuss his issues in his early days as I think he put a lot of that behind him with us.

 

FWIW I only remember a few poor performances from him - a one off during the fifth placed season at home when we were on a roll, can't remember against who. The only others were his most recent, where he either got subbed on or got a surprise start, so looking back, with what we gather went on behind the scenes at that time, I can't put all of that on him either. In fact it's not a massive stretch to suggest that what we're currently being served up on the pitch and in the boardroom is what Ben Arfa was arguing about back then.

 

 

   

 

[U2]

But the reality is, a lot of the time he did not show up.

 

Erm, bollocks?