England: Burn and Gordon named in latest squad (Official)

[The College Dropout]

Everything was stacked in his favour to win the Euros and he didn't do it.

 

The standout team in terms of quality got KO'd early doors and then Italy won it from genetic memory. A very average Italy side who just did Italian things with the best manager at the tournament.

[McCormick]

He doesn’t even need to be on the cutting edge. Some understanding of how to change the game when things are looking awry, or even swapping things up tactically to nullify threats/ take advantage of other teams’ weaknesses would be a nice start.

[Tiresias]

He brought in youth and created an excellent team atmosphere clearly that had been really lacking. He wasn't tactically sophisticated so set us up conservatively and knew Kane and Sterling would always provide something even if we weren't in the game. Unfortunately over time we haven't developed a possession game and our attacks are slow and predictable generally, we are best when we counter attack but any sensible team won't open up the space we need to run into. 

 

He deserves an awful lot of credit for our performances, but one has to ponder if he should be moved upstairs in some capacity rather than kicked out as he no doubt will be if our performances continue into world cup. With these decent well liked coaches you always wonder maybe they could hire a tactically aware assistant who can make all the decisions in games and about how we play and Gareth can just be in charge of vibes and standing there with the waistcoat

[The College Dropout]

10 minutes ago, McCormick said:

He doesn’t even need to be on the cutting edge. Some understanding of how to change the game when things are looking awry, or even swapping things up tactically to nullify threats/ take advantage of other teams’ weaknesses would be a nice start.

Exactly. 

[Doctor Zaius]

Regardless of what you think about previous tournaments and his tactical inflexibility, it's clear that it's gone stale now. 

 

Had this world cup been in the coming summer, he'd be gone now. Defeat tonight and it might well be worth rolling the dice now, but the FA wouldnt dare. Still feel like the players back him but the system is tired. We're slow, predictable and lacking in creativity and he hasn't a clue how to change it. Going to be too hard to implement something new now anyway. Limp through the group followed by a last 16 exit imo.

[relámpago blanco]

I think we should give Gary Monk the World Cup to see how he does. 

[kingxlnc]

We have one extreme or another as manager, never someone balanced. You either have an Eriksson who completely devalues the shirt and calls up randoms or you have the other extreme of Southgate sticking rigidly to his favourites and not even experimenting in meaningless games. 

 

We need someone like Hoddle - who was bold enough to drop Gazza, bring Owen into the team and play a brand of football against big teams I still haven't seen us replicate, 24 years later. 

Southgate was a cautious defender as a player, whereas Hoddle was a creative maverick. As was Keegan. Are there any good creatives/strikers from the 90's who went on to become decent managers? 

[McCormick]

I don’t think the position/ play-style you played as a player necessarily determines your philosophy as a manager. Pep was a dm, Howe was a cb etc.

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, McCormick said:

I don’t think the position/ play-style you played as a player necessarily determines your philosophy as a manager. Pep was a dm, Howe was a cb etc.

Zidane is an extremely pragmatic and defensive first manager.

 

Seemingly his management approach takes more from his time under Italian management than his own playing style.

 

Pep's style is similar to his own style of football as a player though. His seeming disdain for physical prowess is far beyond any totaalvoetbal philosphy.

[Kanj]

What system best suits England? 

 

GK: Pope,  Ramsdale

Fullback: James, TAA, Trips, Chilwell 

CB: Tomori, Stones, Dier, Mings,  Burn 

CM: RIce, Bellingham, Phillips 

ACM: Mount, Maddison, Smith Rowe

LW: Foden, Sterling, Grealish

RW: Saka, Sancho, Bowen

ST: Kane, Toney, Tammy, Wilson 

 

WIth 2-3 of those as reserves/backup and or dropping out for someone I didn't name. 

 

Seems tailored for a 4-2-3-1 for me where Kane has that freedom to drop in and release the wide forwards but also has central assistance from a true #10 who can shoot from deep or be truly creative and you have the stability of the double pivot to control the centre and drop in to see the offensive fullbacks push up. Finally Tomori is the fastest and best in-form CB England have. 

[Paully]

I hope Trips isn’t involved with all these international injuries we’ve suffered!

[AyeDubbleYoo]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Pep's style is similar to his own style of football as a player though. His seeming disdain for physical prowess is far beyond any totaalvoetbal philosphy.

 

Disdain for physical prowess? 

[The College Dropout]

22 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

Disdain for physical prowess? 

I genuinely think ultimate-Pep ball has zero athleticism. And height/strength is something he's forced to have in the PL.

 

For a couple seasons he would often talk about his team lacking "verticality". Only having Sterling and KDB that can play "a vertical game". And I would think to myself, that's not an unexpected bug - you've got so many funds that you have designed a team that is slow purposely. He replaced Sane with Mahrez, Sterling with Grealish. Window after window not bringing pace into the side.. Jesus to Haaland basically. Height and power is largely only brought in at CB and DM. 

 

He's brought in Haaland and I think he's done so because of the failures in Europe and that the deal is too good to miss out on. But you can see, he's not a natural fit for that system. I think Kane would be a more natural fit.. with the same physical limitations. And then he sold the rest of the pace in the attack as if not go overboard with athleticism in the team.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Hmm, see what you're saying, but I would say they are pretty athletic. They can run all day and press to a high level for 90 minutes. On the ball they're very decisive and sharp. The lack of pace might be more to do with the fact that they dominate possession in 90% of their games.

 

Open to debate on the Haaland thing. Not sure you can say that someone who is going to end up with 5 great chances and 1-2 goals a game isn't suited to their system. You could equally argue that it's a sign that the system isn't as rigid as everyone likes to think. 

 

That said, I love Pep so I am biased  I guess you might be right about how his play would be in theory vs the PL.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by AyeDubbleYoo

[SUPERTOON]

2 hours ago, Paully said:

I hope Trips isn’t involved with all these international injuries we’ve suffered!

He will start at left back tonight 

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Hmm, see what you're saying, but I would say they are pretty athletic. They can run all day and press to a high level for 90 minutes. On the ball they're very decisive and sharp. The lack of pace might be more to do with the fact that they dominate possession in 90% of their games.

 

Open to debate on the Harland thing. Not sure you can say that someone who is going to end up with 5 great chances and 1-2 goals a game isn't suited to their system. You could equally argue that it's a sign that the system isn't as rigid as everyone likes to think. 

 

That said, I love Pep so I am biased  I guess you might be right about how his play would be in theory vs the PL.

 

 

 

Athleticism is not a key attribute he looks for in most of his players. 

 

Going from an Aguero - Sterling - Sane frontline to a Grealish - Gundogan - Mahrez frontline isn't by happenstance. The wingers... purposely slow down the game rather than quicken it. It's purposely a slow moving team that suffocates opposition when in possession. In midfield it's the same.. athletic enough to compete at the highest level but no more. Rodri has replaced Fernandinho - Rodri is less athletic than a prime Fernandinho (although he is good in the air/big which was key to his signing). 1 reason for City having that poor season was Rodri new into the side and struggling with the physicality of the league. He was too easily turned, a split second too slow and teams could get onto City and run at the backline. He's much improved and is a brilliant player. But that aspect is still an achilles heel of that team that you can sometimes play too fast for Rodri and get on the defence - we did it at home. I think Busquets is closer to his ideal DM (not athletic) than a Fabinho.

 

Maybe Dias aside, none of the defenders are quick.  We've seen at Barca, he would play a 5'9 CB if he could. 

 

In contrast - I think of ultimate Klopp ball. Everyone is quick, powerful, strong, big, hard runners. 

 

Haaland - I didn't mean to convey that he wasn't suited as if it wouldn't work. He's big, fast, strong, loves playing on the counter, minimal touches to goal. That doesn't sound like a Man City player. You can see him bringing something different to that team - being different. You could see it early, the City players weren't playing him in quickly enough. As you say, it's evolving and they ahve already started to play faster and feed him in earlier.

 

But this is a move to win. Not because Pep necessarily wants a more direct, fast team. He could have had an attack of Sterling - Haaland - Jesus but he doesn't want to go that far.

 

That's what I think anyway. It's interesting to see what type of side Howe builds. From such a low base being "good" improves us so it's hard to tell. We are fast, pressing, counter attacking team but that's largely because of the pre-existing personnel. That's why I thought the James Maddison transfer was so interesting, he doesn't fit naturally into our shape or general style of play. So how does Eddie want us to play?

[Cattletrucked]

I don’t want to see Pope or Trippier in the team tonight, not with our luck with players getting injured! 

[Disco]

 

[Shearergol]

Learning a lot from that 

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, hakka said:

So he's just going again except Shaw for Saka? Even more defensive? 

Gotta give him credit for some wins ages ago though. He’s deserved his chance to fail, again.

[La Parka]

Fucking hell lol

[AJ9]

Christ on a bike that’s a grim side just drop Maguire already and play 4 at the back.

[cubaricho]

Oh man Southgate.

[HaydnNUFC]

Glad I don't really give a flying fuck about England otherwise I'd be livid that Tomori (and others) are getting no minutes at all in these glorified friendlies. 

[Mattoon]

That line up is absolutely awe inspiring.