Ivan Toney (now playing for Brentford)

[Manxst]

4 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Something like this though, punishment should be about how serious an individual breach of the rules is, not how many times a rule is breached. 

 

Does anybody really care if he's, for example, put 232 accumulators on over a number of years? Anything more than a couple of games and a fine would be ludicrously disproportionate in that instance. He could be putting a quid on at a time for all we know.

I personally don’t care what he’s done, unless he’s bet specifically on games that he’s had an influence on. However, I also think that even a quid at a time, that’s still worse than what Trippier did- it’s a more serious offence imo to gain personally from a breach of the rules that govern you, even though it could well be minuscule amounts. It’s been well publicised over the years that footballers aren’t allowed to bet, and he would know that. 

[James]

Didn’t someone on here make enough for a Florida holiday because someone at Spurs told him that Roeder was the new NUFC manager. Or have I recalled incorrectly?

[midds]

232 is a very specific number of bets to charge him with like

 

I'm thinking if they have charged him with placing exactly 232 bets then they know exactly what bets he's placed. It's way too precise to make me think they know 100% of what's gone on. The 50/1 red card thing is dynamite  

[James]

Worth noting that Toney started doing this while playing for us.

 

Many factors might have led to him doing this but the club needs to investigate and consider:

 

a) Are there any malign influences within NUFC that encouraged this behaviour at the time in whatever way, be it a first teamer or a youth coach who is still at the club?

 

b) is there a gap in the support that we give young players that still remains, which may have contributed to his alleged destructive behaviour?

 

c) did we send him to a club on loan without properly vetting their dressing room? What vetting processes do we now have in place?

[James]

Conversely we also sent Elliott Anderson on loan to play under a manager with a known gambling addiction/behavioural control issue. Was this appropriate?

[Joey Linton]

8 minutes ago, James said:

Worth noting that Toney started doing this while playing for us.

 

Many factors might have led to him doing this but the club needs to investigate and consider:

 

a) Are there any malign influences within NUFC that encouraged this behaviour at the time in whatever way, be it a first teamer or a youth coach who is still at the club?

 

b) is there a gap in the support that we give young players that still remains, which may have contributed to his alleged destructive behaviour?

 

c) did we send him to a club on loan without properly vetting their dressing room? What vetting processes do we now have in place?

No he's just been a complete dick.

[Wullie]

12 minutes ago, midds said:

The 50/1 red card thing is dynamite  

 

What's this?

[Manxst]

11 minutes ago, James said:

Worth noting that Toney started doing this while playing for us.

 

Many factors might have led to him doing this but the club needs to investigate and consider:

 

a) Are there any malign influences within NUFC that encouraged this behaviour at the time in whatever way, be it a first teamer or a youth coach who is still at the club?

 

b) is there a gap in the support that we give young players that still remains, which may have contributed to his alleged destructive behaviour?

 

c) did we send him to a club on loan without properly vetting their dressing room? What vetting processes do we now have in place?

He wasn’t technically playing for us at the time of the alleged first offence- he was at Scunthorpe, so I can’t see how much points a or possibly b can apply? 

[huss9]

23 minutes ago, James said:

Didn’t someone on here make enough for a Florida holiday because someone at Spurs told him that Roeder was the new NUFC manager. Or have I recalled incorrectly?

pardew

[midds]

14 hours ago, The Butcher said:

 

@Wullie

 

Unless this was all bullshit I've stupidly fallen for

[James]

3 minutes ago, Manxst said:

He wasn’t technically playing for us at the time of the alleged first offence- he was at Scunthorpe, so I can’t see how much points a or possibly b can apply? 

he still had interactions with people at our club however and we still had responsibility to look after him, he was our player. Was there cash betting at our club amongst players before his loan that he enjoyed too much?

 

were players swapping tips via WhatsApp?

 

were we not running suitable awareness courses?

 

we may well have had nothing to do with it, but we are doing our young players in particular a disservice if when now presented with information that there might have been a problem at the club in 2016/17 we don’t investigate to ensure that this problem has now been eradicated.

[Wullie]

Seems extremely tenuous to me @midds. I just looked up that red card, it was for a second yellow in the 95th minute that the referee (and the camera) didn't even see. The linesman gave it after Toney clashed off the ball with a Luton player who got a straight red for shoving Toney in the face. I reckon I'd make it a bit more obvious if I'd bet the farm on it.

 

 

The thing I always think whenever there's an accusation of a player taking a deliberate card for money (Xhaka was accused of it at Leeds last season) is that loads of people look back on it and go "omg how did we not realise it, that was so deliberate" without taking into account that almost every card looks deliberate if you want it to. Look at the last 5 minutes of Newcastle vs Chelsea and you could easily construct a case that half our squad was on the take, including the subs.

[midds]

5 minutes ago, Wullie said:

Seems extremely tenuous to me @midds. I just looked up that red card, it was for a second yellow in the 95th minute that the referee (and the camera) didn't even see. The linesman gave it after Toney clashed off the ball with a Luton player who got a straight red for shoving Toney in the face. I reckon I'd make it a bit more obvious if I'd bet the farm on it.

 

 

The thing I always think whenever there's an accusation of a player taking a deliberate card for money (Xhaka was accused of it at Leeds last season) is that loads of people look back on it and go "omg how did we not realise it, that was so deliberate" without taking into account that almost every card looks deliberate if you want it to. Look at the last 5 minutes of Newcastle vs Chelsea and you could easily construct a case that half our squad was on the take, including the subs.

 

 

 

Can't disagree with any of that, I was just taking it at face value and the red he got followed by an immediate cessation of his bets as a huge red flag. I've obviously got no proof or evidence of anything but if he's been charged then he's obviously in a big bit of bother but I'd like to hear more details of exactly what bets he's placed and I'm pretty sure it'll all come out in the wash  

[jonny1403]

On 16/11/2022 at 21:32, Dokko said:

 

Reading tge fa charges website, there is 2 a month for an E8. Owners, directors, players and managers. All sorts getting charged yet you don't hear 24 cases of long term suspensions a year. 

 

Last noticeable one was Barton and that was ares ago...plus I think the fa had had enough of him by then. Easy excuse to finish off his career.

The last noticeable one was our own right back less than 3 years ago 

[Dokko]

4 minutes ago, jonny1403 said:

The last noticeable one was our own right back less than 3 years ago 

 

Multiple cases a month, and last one which caught the headlines is 3 years ago. Point proven really. Unless match fixing or betting on his own team is involved, it won't be a ban.

 

Do think trippier was hard down by. He should be able to tell people he is moving, and betting companies shouldn't run bets on next club. Imagine not being able to tell your family your about to move countries and the 1st they here of it is on sky sports news, just to pacify gambling companies?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Dokko

[jonny1403]

Just now, Dokko said:

 

Multiple cases a month, and last one which caught the headlines is 3 years ago. Point proven really. Unless match fixing or betting on his own team is involved, it won't be a ban.

 

Do think trippier was hard down by. He should be able to tell people he is moving, and betting companies should run bets on next club. 

What do you mean multiple cases a month? Of Premier league - league one footballers?

 

Completely agree on Trippier. Like any of us telling a mate we've got a new job.

[Groundhog63]

1 minute ago, jonny1403 said:

Completely agree on Trippier. Like any of us telling a mate we've got a new job.

I get the "insider dealing" aspect of that particular type of bet but it's canny ridiculous in reality. 

I mean you can't NOT tell your family, friends, window cleaner, school, Royal Mail, neighbours, marching powder dealer etc etc that you're moving. Surely ?

[Dokko]

6 minutes ago, jonny1403 said:

What do you mean multiple cases a month? Of Premier league - league one footballers?

 

Completely agree on Trippier. Like any of us telling a mate we've got a new job.

 

Check the fa website for E8 infringements. Littered with them. 

[Manxst]

I wouldn’t say there are hundreds- since Trippiers case, there has been 40 E8 offences dealt with. The vast majority get a suspension if some sort (1-6 months) and a fine. Reading through some cases, it seems that the FA become aware due to the betting companies tipping them off about the individual player involved. Several players have bet similar amounts to Toney and got suspensions from a month to a few months. 

[BlueStar]

 

[deejeck]

15 minutes ago, BlueStar said:

 

Had to double-check in case someone had just altered his wiki page, but it's actually true.

[Thomson Mouse]

The Trippier thing is the bookies being pissed off because they’ve been rinsed. Fuck’em

 

Any betting on a football match by a manager/player is mental. Huge opportunity to influence even a yellow card could change the game 

[Jaqen]

1 hour ago, Thomson Mouse said:

The Trippier thing is the bookies being pissed off because they’ve been rinsed. Fuck’em

 

Any betting on a football match by a manager/player is mental. Huge opportunity to influence even a yellow card could change the game 

 

Exactly. Bookies use insider knowledge to their favour all the time. Sky run fake transfer stories then offer odds on it ffs. 

[The College Dropout]

5 hours ago, Dokko said:

 

Multiple cases a month, and last one which caught the headlines is 3 years ago. Point proven really. Unless match fixing or betting on his own team is involved, it won't be a ban.

 

Do think trippier was hard down by. He should be able to tell people he is moving, and betting companies shouldn't run bets on next club. Imagine not being able to tell your family your about to move countries and the 1st they here of it is on sky sports news, just to pacify gambling companies?

 

 

 

I think he'll get a ban regardless if he's gambled. Like a big fine and a 3 match ban. If he's gambled on games he's been involved in, his ban will be at least a year - probably several.

 

And he'll need to move abroad.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by The College Dropout

[The College Dropout]

5 hours ago, Groundhog63 said:

I get the "insider dealing" aspect of that particular type of bet but it's canny ridiculous in reality. 

I mean you can't NOT tell your family, friends, window cleaner, school, Royal Mail, neighbours, marching powder dealer etc etc that you're moving. Surely ?

Tripps also told them to put money on it.