Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Dummet is an awful footballer and was piss poor last night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Dummet is an awful footballer and was p*ss poor last night. he has definitely improved this seaon. i know its championship opposition, and i'm not a fan of his, but he has been better. even whipped a few crosses in. poor last night, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! You sound just like Tim Sherwood tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 It's difficult to question Benitez with how things have gone, people's opinions of course but when we win again this will die down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Personally reckon we need to target the plate spinners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? My take on this is for four reasons. 1. Personnel. Finding a formation for your best players is my preference. Mitro and Gayle look like they could do damage to this league. Perez and Diame don't seem to be cutting it. Doubt the former is ever going to now; re the latter? Not sure 10 is his best position. 2. We are predictable. We always seem, to my untrained eye, to set up the same. Ok, just like Peter Beardsley's shimmy, we're predicable but usually effective, but we would be more effective with another trick or two up our sleeve. 3. Opposition tactics. Teams are s*** scared of us. Forest, at home, sat back two ranks of 4, one 'big man' striker, conceded all possession to us (75% until chaos started).I watched Boro away at Man City. Forest looked to have the same 'ambition' as Boro. There is no space for Gayle in behind or in the channels facing this kind of jam packed defence. An additional body, especially a strong one capable of holding the ball up, getting in amongst defenders, and scoring himself would make a difference. 4. Life isn't an experiment. However many we're scoring or winning, we won't ever know if we would score more or less with other personnel playing or tactics. Why does it matter if we're top? Obviously it doesn't if we are top at the end of the season, the people clammering for Mitro and Gayle obviously think use (flexible use) of this option will increase the likelihood of this happening. Also, FWIW I recall an interview with Rafa when he arrived were he emphatically stated (claimed?) he would happily play two strikers, should it be needed. I think it is needed now, or at least would like to see it. Who knows, may have tried and not have worked-out in training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Personally reckon we need to target the plate spinners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... It's about improving and developing further and two up front would suit our play better and yield us better returns on our dominance and possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! You sound just like Tim Sherwood tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 It's a worthless debate because Rafa doesn't play with two strikers. If he did then it would be worth talking about, but he doesn't so I dunno why people are bringing it up, you have to accept Rafa doing things his way and get over the whole 2 striker thing, particularly when Rafa's been largely successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... ...and still didn't win anything and were arguably worse that season. Meanwhile Rafa's won league titles, cups, and Champion's League's doing things his way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Shelvey's absence will surely force a tactical reshuffle, especially as he seems integral to our current system and there's no like for like replacement. The only way we could stick with the system would be to play Hayden or Perez in the Shelvey role. Perez seemed to play there after Shelvey got sent off, and we dominated and scored despite being a man down. There is a clear risk though that Perez is too lightweight for the position. Hayden is the other option - he can play a bit, but we would lose a lot in creativity. The obvious alternative to those two options is a tactical reshuffle and bring in Mitro alongside Gayle. If Hayden and Colback are in centre mid, with Gouffran and Ritchie working hard on the flanks, I think it'd be solid enough. It'll be interesting to see what Rafa does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Going back to the 442 argument and the incorrect thought that we aren't scoring enough, my thoughts are that we are playing a system that will serve us very well when we go up a level when back in the prem. We wob't dominate possession so much and will appreciate the extra man in midfield. I also think that with the marauding (ahem!...dummet!) full backs we are quite set up to attack??? It is hard to score goals when teams "park the bus" it's irrelevant if you play 442, 351, or whatever, they still have nine men defending.... I personally think the system is great and it's the first time I have seen us genuinely well organised and hard to break down, with some better quality in the final third we would whop teams every game. I also don't see that many prem sides playing 442, as the game is much more about control and not losing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 P.S. last couple of games have been unlucky: Pennas, sendings off and offside? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Rafa knows more than HTT. That doesn't mean he can't be questioned, it's just that questioning him is wrong. I don't have the answers for most of the "why not 442?" Stuff but I bet Rafa does. Presumably if we give up a midfielder, we give up some possession and control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Rafa knows more than HTT. That doesn't mean he can't be questioned, it's just that questioning him is wrong. I don't have the answers for most of the "why not 442?" Stuff but I bet Rafa does. Presumably if we give up a midfielder, we give up some possession and control. That's the exact word Rafa used when asked why he doesn't use 4-4-2, control of the midfield. Obviously some of us on here think you can still do that with 4-4-2 because the standard of the teams in the Championship isn't good. I suppose that's the argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... ...and still didn't win anything and were arguably worse that season. Meanwhile Rafa's won league titles, cups, and Champion's League's doing things his way. I reckon had KK stayed, we would have went very close again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 That doesn't mean he can't be questioned, it's just that questioning him is wrong. Well that makes complete sense... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 It's a worthless debate because Rafa doesn't play with two strikers. If he did then it would be worth talking about, but he doesn't so I dunno why people are bringing it up, you have to accept Rafa doing things his way and get over the whole 2 striker thing, particularly when Rafa's been largely successful. How is it a worthless debate? I don't want to do this, but... When we were doing relatively well in the league at the start of the season we finished 5th under Pardew there woz strong opinion on here to have Obertan removed for HBA and that although we were winning and doing well, the football was shite. Was all that debate about playing HBA and us capable of playing much better worthless because hey Pardew was stubborn and was getting success? There is no bigger fan of Rafa than me on here, go have a look at Rawk and I was heralding him way back when they first appointed him. I remember writing an article on the main site when this place used to have one basically discussing the parallels between us and Liverpool and how they made the right decision to get rid of Houllier and appoint Rafa while we made a cluster fuck of a mistake in appointing Souness over Sir Bobby! He's not beyond having his methods, tactics etc. discussed, debated and even criticised regardless of how well we are doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 There's always room to improve. Even for the world's best players like Karl Darlow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 It's a worthless debate because Rafa doesn't play with two strikers. If he did then it would be worth talking about, but he doesn't so I dunno why people are bringing it up, you have to accept Rafa doing things his way and get over the whole 2 striker thing, particularly when Rafa's been largely successful. How is it a worthless debate? I don't want to do this, but... When we were doing relatively well in the league at the start of the season we finished 5th under Pardew there woz strong opinion on here to have Obertan removed for HBA and that although we were winning and doing well, the football was shite. Was all that debate about playing HBA and us capable of playing much better worthless because hey Pardew was stubborn and was getting success? There is no bigger fan of Rafa than me on here, go have a look at Rawk and I was heralding him way back when they first appointed him. I remember writing an article on the main site when this place used to have one basically discussing the parallels between us and Liverpool and how they made the right decision to get rid of Houllier and appoint Rafa while we made a cluster fuck of a mistake in appointing Souness over Sir Bobby! He's not beyond having his methods, tactics etc. discussed, debated and even criticised regardless of how well we are doing. Just copying and pasting, but... It's a worthless debate because Rafa doesn't play with two strikers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... It's about improving and developing further and two up front would suit our play better and yield us better returns on our dominance and possession. I'm not at all convinced it'd help improve us. We've played some absolutely cracking football this season, someone even put up a YT with all of our attacking moves and we're worlds apart from anything since Bobby. But we're also solid, I think Rafa knows we're not individually excellent at the defensive side of the game and has planned accordingly (with next year in mind). How many games are you basing our possessiong game on, btw? Didn't you see Brentford, Norwich, Ipswich etc.? We've absolutely cut some teams apart, but we're not always going to play like that. Rafa, I think, knew Forest were decent on the counter with their wing backs so opted for something to work holes in their back 5. That seems to be his thing for away games, controlling the tempo above all else, and it's worked an absolute charm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm in two minds about going 4-4-2. Short term it'd improve us, I'm convinced of it. However, by persisting with the current system Rafa will ensure that next year when we're (hopefully) in the Premiership our squad will be fully comfortable with the style and system Rafa wants them to play. It's frustrating at the moment, no doubt. Probably the sensible thing in the long term though. Absolute priority next summer has to be getting the best #10 we can attract, the system will look much better when we have that and a better option on the left than Gouffran. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 This is like asking McDonalds to change the recipe of their fries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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