Rafael Benitez

[mrmojorisin75]

He also said that he couldn't get the players he wanted in the summer because they wouldn't want to play in this division.

 

Doesn't change the fact he has the most talented group of players in the division.

 

I'm not sure this is true tbh.

Was about to say the thing that changes that fact is that it's not a fact.

[mrmojorisin75]

For my part I suspect Rafa has probably been taken by surprise by this division and by the utter dearth of quality in our squad.

 

He was at Real Madrid just over a year ago and he had to size up a squad revamp for the championship. I love the bloke but he's quite clearly not got it all right. Diame has been a travesty. Gayle a roaring success. Clark a gem, Lascelles hasn't pushed on as we all might have expected.

 

I'm not making excuses for him because I don't think he needs them, we'd have been mid table under another manager, but if we get up and he is allowed to sign who he wants then this will be instant history imo.

 

We've all got to stay the fucking course and stop embarrassing ourselves whenever we play like shit.

 

We'll do it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There are a handful of managers in the world better than Rafa, we better just take a reality check.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Funny one this. You have to be the most un Rafa like team I've seen, of all his charges, and of course he must take responsibility for that. It's his job to drill/impress his methods on the team and it could be said he's failed to do that. He's certainly failed if you don't go up, even if ensuring that is not half as easy as some on here make out. I think you will go up. But there's some cause for concern for me, as a seasoned Rafa watcher.

 

1. Rafa teams nearly always finish the season strongly. Valencia did. We always did at LFC. Chelsea too, when he got them in the CL and won the Europa. Napoli in his first season (less so his second but he'd announced he'd gone then...). It's one of the benefits of rotation. But you lot seem out of steam and patched up. That might be down to bad luck with injuries. But it could also be an issue with the fitness work, either now or earlier in the season. Or, as I suspect, you have struggled with the pressure all season, particularly since Xmas. Everyone expected you to piss it, win every game, and its a cup final for the opposition etc...In that respect it's different as all Rafa's other teams were coming from behind but you have been pacesetting almost from the start. You need strong characters to handle it and drag the team with them. All his teams have had characters like that. Gerrard, Carra, Mata etc. Who are the leaders on your team? Who can lead from the front? I think that's been a problem and one that will need solving. Maybe in the last three matches but definitely when you go up.

 

2. Defensive mistakes. Seems like you're making lots of them. Rafa teams rarely fuck up defensively. They defend set pieces well. Is this related to the pressure problem? Or is Rafa unable to organise a defence like he once did?

 

3. I don't believe for a second this talk of complacency. From what I've seen or read you are bricking it on the field, nervy and prone to errors. If so, it's a failure of Rafa's not to be able to relax players and take some of the pressure of them. But he will also need to find some players who can cope with it better. He has also seemed to be micro managing you in matches, a sign he doesn't trust people to carry out the game plan. That's not sustainable. It was never the case at LFC anyway. You need players not only capable of carrying out a game plan, but reacting to whatever the opposition are doing rather than having their hand held.

 

4. Selection - I was surprised to see he made so many changes today. Not surprised one of them was Mitrovic, because he was the one who I reckon caused that late Leeds goal, which was a giant kick in the teeth,  and Rafa doesn't forgiver that bullshit. Plus Murphy v his old team etc. There might have been reasons for it though. It smacks of a bit of panic from him though, not often seen. In those late season runs he made changes of course, but one or two, not five. Did anyone ask why he made so many changes? Again it points to people being battered and knackered and his system is meant to avoid that.

 

5. Goals - they seemed to have dried up. You scored for fun earlier in the season. But now it seems to be one a game, two if you're lucky. That makes you very vulnerable, particularly when you're defence is prone to fucking up. Gayle's injury was obviously a blow, but I'd have put money on Rafa finding another way.

 

Ironically, if you did go to the play offs, no matter that you'd shit the bed, I'd fancy you to go up because as he's proved already this season no one prepares a team better for one off, big matches. But something is missing. Most likely players, but I think it's fair to say that while he's done a good job this season, in a situation where he and you were damned if you did and damned if you didn't, it has been by no means perfect. But if you do go up - and I think Fulham will take points off Hudderslacks on Saturday so if you beat Preston you'll be there - then there is much work for him to do.

 

A LFC mate thinks managers pass their shelf life in the same way players do. I don't think Rafa has past his, and of course they said the same about Ranieri. But he has some serious work on his hands next season if you make it up and maybe the biggest challenge of his career to keep you up.

Good read, as always.

[Mole_Toonfan]

For my part I suspect Rafa has probably been taken by surprise by this division and by the utter dearth of quality in our squad.

 

He was at Real Madrid just over a year ago and he had to size up a squad revamp for the championship. I love the bloke but he's quite clearly not got it all right. Diame has been a travesty. Gayle a roaring success. Clark a gem, Lascelles hasn't pushed on as we all might have expected.

 

I'm not making excuses for him because I don't think he needs them, we'd have been mid table under another manager, but if we get up and he is allowed to sign who he wants then this will be instant history imo.

 

We've all got to stay the f***ing course and stop embarrassing ourselves whenever we play like s***.

 

We'll do it.

 

There's a mix here IMO, Rafa can obviously have done a lot better in certain cases which i'm sure he'd privately admit himself. But at the same time there's some severely lack of talent in midfield and attack.

 

Only Gayle, Shelvey and Ritchie have been consistently above the rest, the likes of Perez, Mitrovic, Diame and so on have been disappointing and the only ones i'd feel confident about in defence is probably Anita, Clark and Yedlin but even then they have just been "solid" and i'm not sure i feel massively confident about any of them at the next level.

 

There's a significant amount of work to be done whatever happens.

[DJ_NUFC]

I have also wondered about the number of games and the grueling schedule. It's no surprise that seasoned campaigners and those hovering around the playoff spots from years past have done well this year, only we are the anomaly, as Norwich and Villa have proven.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

True, Brighton have been working on their promotion for years, everyone else is battling to finish in the top six.

[mrmojorisin75]

I have also wondered about the number of games and the grueling schedule. It's no surprise that seasoned campaigners and those hovering around the playoff spots from years past have done well this year, only we are the anomaly, as Norwich and Villa have proven.

Fair point there as well

[afar]

Usually at least one relegated club bounces straight back up, I have no idea of the stats on that but it must be pretty that all three fail to make it.

[Greg]

Usually at least one relegated club bounces straight back up, I have no idea of the stats on that but it must be pretty that all three fail to make it.

 

Someone said the other day we will only be the 2nd out the last 18 to be relegated to go straight back up at first attempt via automatic promotion (should we finish the job).

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Please play two strikers for Preston.

[sempuki]

Usually at least one relegated club bounces straight back up, I have no idea of the stats on that but it must be pretty that all three fail to make it.

 

Someone said the other day we will only be the 2nd out the last 18 to be relegated to go straight back up at first attempt via automatic promotion (should we finish the job).

Interesting - losing mentalities run deep.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Please play two strikers for Preston.

 

Hmm.

[Dave]

Usually at least one relegated club bounces straight back up, I have no idea of the stats on that but it must be pretty that all three fail to make it.

 

Someone said the other day we will only be the 2nd out the last 18 to be relegated to go straight back up at first attempt via automatic promotion (should we finish the job).

 

Aye, it's actually the other way around. Nearly three-quarters of all relegated teams failed to go back up at the first attempt.

 

Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/how-long-take-re-promoted-7117114

[mrmojorisin75]

Usually at least one relegated club bounces straight back up, I have no idea of the stats on that but it must be pretty that all three fail to make it.

 

Someone said the other day we will only be the 2nd out the last 18 to be relegated to go straight back up at first attempt via automatic promotion (should we finish the job).

 

Aye, it's actually the other way around. Nearly three-quarters of all relegated teams failed to go back up at the first attempt.

 

Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/how-long-take-re-promoted-7117114

Yet we were going to go unbeaten.

[ponsaelius]

Had no idea Gouffran had won L1 like. Played most of the games as well.

 

That Bordeaux side got 16 points in a CL group containing Bayern Munich and Juventus the following season. Were a Hugo Lloris wondersave off making the semi finals as well.

[Guest firetotheworks]

For my part I suspect Rafa has probably been taken by surprise by this division and by the utter dearth of quality in our squad.

 

He was at Real Madrid just over a year ago and he had to size up a squad revamp for the championship. I love the bloke but he's quite clearly not got it all right. Diame has been a travesty. Gayle a roaring success. Clark a gem, Lascelles hasn't pushed on as we all might have expected.

 

I'm not making excuses for him because I don't think he needs them, we'd have been mid table under another manager, but if we get up and he is allowed to sign who he wants then this will be instant history imo.

 

We've all got to stay the f***ing course and stop embarrassing ourselves whenever we play like s***.

 

We'll do it.

 

There's a mix here IMO, Rafa can obviously have done a lot better in certain cases which i'm sure he'd privately admit himself. But at the same time there's some severely lack of talent in midfield and attack.

 

Only Gayle, Shelvey and Ritchie have been consistently above the rest, the likes of Perez, Mitrovic, Diame and so on have been disappointing and the only ones i'd feel confident about in defence is probably Anita, Clark and Yedlin but even then they have just been "solid" and i'm not sure i feel massively confident about any of them at the next level.

 

There's a significant amount of work to be done whatever happens.

Bang on.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

He's not particularly known as an arm-round-the-shoulder type manager, is he?

 

If so, that could be playing a part, given that our squad seems quite weak mentally.

[afar]

I guess last year when 2 out of the 3  and the last time we were in the division when 2 out of 3 again went up were the exceptions.

[ponsaelius]

A LFC mate thinks managers pass their shelf life in the same way players do. I don't think Rafa has past his, and of course they said the same about Ranieri. But he has some serious work on his hands next season if you make it up and maybe the biggest challenge of his career to keep you up.

 

I've always been a big fan of Rafa, and thought he was a great manager for Liverpool. I put down his career wavering due to some poor choices in terms of clubs.

 

Going to Inter after winning the treble, replacing Mourinho just as Moratti had fulfilled his ambition to win the CL meant he was on a hiding to nothing in a new financial reality. The fact Rafa was the last Inter manager to win a trophy tells you everything. Chelsea, too, as an interim, was not the kind of project or club suited to him. But he ultimately did an excellent job in the end to guide them to 3rd and win a trophy.

 

However, I was disappointed with how he did at Napoli. While he did win the Coppa Italia, Mazzarri had also managed that, and he ultimately took them backwards to finishing 5th. Also, losing the Europa semi-final to Dnipro was a big disappointment. He succeeded in improving the status of the club by attracting big signings, but failed in developing the team on the pitch and developing the players they had brought in. Since replacing him Sarri has had them playing significantly better football. You only have to look at the level of goal output Higuain, Insigne and Mertens have produced and the way they've developed as players to see that.

 

So I'm not sure whether I agree with the hypothesis that managers can pass their sell-buy date. But I do think they can make bad career choices, and become looked at less favourably because of it. Rafa has done that in a pursuit for trophies for his CV. With us he finally has a project more in line with what he had at Valencia and Liverpool, so long as he receives the backing and support he deserves from the board. There should be no short termism to it. He is back in England, close to his family, and in a job where the expectations aren't high and the timeframe is longterm. He needs to prove himself as a manager who can build and shape a team over a number of seasons again. Then, he only needs to deliver one of his usual trophies, and he'll have a statue outside the ground.

[Gallowgate Toon]

A LFC mate thinks managers pass their shelf life in the same way players do. I don't think Rafa has past his, and of course they said the same about Ranieri. But he has some serious work on his hands next season if you make it up and maybe the biggest challenge of his career to keep you up.

 

I've always been a big fan of Rafa, and thought he was a great manager for Liverpool. I put down his career wavering due to some poor choices in terms of clubs.

 

Going to Inter after winning the treble, replacing Mourinho just as Moratti had fulfilled his ambition to win the CL meant he was on a hiding to nothing in a new financial reality. The fact Rafa was the last Inter manager to win a trophy tells you everything. Chelsea, too, as an interim, was not the kind of project or club suited to him. But he ultimately did an excellent job in the end to guide them to 3rd and win a trophy.

 

However, I was disappointed with how he did at Napoli. While he did win the Coppa Italia, Mazzarri had also managed that, and he ultimately took them backwards to finishing 5th. Also, losing the Europa semi-final to Dnipro was a big disappointment. He succeeded in improving the status of the club by attracting big signings, but failed in developing the team on the pitch and developing the players they had brought in. Since replacing him Sarri has had them playing significantly better football. You only have to look at the level of goal output Higuain, Insigne and Mertens have produced and the way they've developed as players to see that.

 

So I'm not sure whether I agree with the hypothesis that managers can pass their sell-buy date. But I do think they can make bad career choices, and become looked at less favourably because of it. Rafa has done that in a pursuit for trophies for his CV. With us he finally has a project more in line with what he had at Valencia and Liverpool, so long as he receives the backing and support he deserves from the board. There should be no short termism to it. He is back in England, close to his family, and in a job where the expectations aren't high and the timeframe is longterm. He needs to prove himself as a manager who can build and shape a team over a number of seasons again. Then, he only needs to deliver one of his usual trophies, and he'll have a statue outside the ground.

 

I can't speak for the style of play but Rafa's Napoli didn't seem to struggle with goals? Despite Higuain having an absolute monster of a season last year, they only scored 3 more than Rafa's first season - that would suggest he built a good team of scorers, would it not, rather than an over-reliance on one player? His second season seemed really weird, they shipped a lot of goals but still nabbed a solid 70.

[Sir Toon]

Wait until we go up, have a good start and Rafa being touted for the next big club that is struggling.  Can see it now.

[SEMTEX]

#wait

[Mole_Toonfan]

[Sir Toon]