Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[InspectorCoarse]

To be a ' fan ' as opposed  to being a fan who knows something about football etc is to be a moron - at the level of a child 

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, Sima said:

Just watched the highlights.  Apparently they got battered for the first 50-odd minutes but they looked so incisive when Rafa switched it and they got going.

 

We'd have done fuck all apart from bring Hendrick on for Hayden and limped to a 0-2 defeat.

I watched the full game, they didn’t get battered at all, they were just overrun/outnumbered by Burnley, once Rafa made the switch Everton ran amok and could have had 5 or 6 easily. 

[KaKa]

8 minutes ago, HTT II said:

I watched the full game, they didn’t get battered at all, they were just overrun/outnumbered by Burnley, once Rafa made the switch Everton ran amok and could have had 5 or 6 easily. 

 

Yeah, I thought the same.

 

You could argue his approach was a smart one too, because the 3 centrebacks neutralised Wood and Barnes to start.

 

As Burnley then began to tire he added the extra man in midfield to take full control of the game and completely play them off the park.

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, I thought the same.

 

You could argue his approach was a smart one too, because the 3 centrebacks neutralised Wood and Barnes to start.

 

As Burnley then began to tire he added the extra man in midfield to take full control of the game and completely play them off the park.

Aye, a Rafa masterclass!

[Sima]

 Fair enough.  Decent case study into not believing media snippets about Rafa right there.

[Paully]

It's totally gutting like - letting Rafa walk away and paying £4 million for Steve twatting Bruce FFS

 

I hate them lot but hope he does well to shut up the media clowns and the idiots in our support 

[ATF]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, I thought the same.

 

You could argue his approach was a smart one too, because the 3 centrebacks neutralised Wood and Barnes to start.

 

As Burnley then began to tire he added the extra man in midfield to take full control of the game and completely play them off the park.

I do think you can say the back five didn't work for them last night. The thinking was obvious but without Calvert-Lewin they lacked the aerial outball and they were too passive and deep to put the squeeze on Burnley (also without a ball playing centre back against Burnley's press). Part players, part manager for not foreseeing the possible system breakdowns. The change though was very clever - I doubt many were thinking Gomes on for Godfrey and play 4-3-3. Created a 3v2 in midfield on transition, allowed Townsend and Gray to play higher and more inside, and freed Doucoure as well.

 

This stat is telling.

 

[Fantail Breeze]

May be remembering this wrong but weren’t we always better in the second half under Rafa?

[KaKa]

45 minutes ago, ATF said:

I do think you can say the back five didn't work for them last night. The thinking was obvious but without Calvert-Lewin they lacked the aerial outball and they were too passive and deep to put the squeeze on Burnley (also without a ball playing centre back against Burnley's press). Part players, part manager for not foreseeing the possible system breakdowns. The change though was very clever - I doubt many were thinking Gomes on for Godfrey and play 4-3-3. Created a 3v2 in midfield on transition, allowed Townsend and Gray to play higher and more inside, and freed Doucoure as well.

 

This stat is telling.

 

 

Oh, absolutely. The back 5 certainly didn't work for Everton going forward, and I'm sure Rafa was hoping they would be more effective than they were in that respect.

 

However, I'm pretty sure the priority for him in lining up that way was to stifle their front two with the three centre backs to start with and that was largely achieved.

 

 

[TRon]

6 hours ago, St1pe said:

Wonder if Everton fans are still scoffing at Benitez signing Gray and Townsend. 

 

£1.7m for the pair of them, and you can chuck Rondon in as well for a freebie. 

 

Oooh...terrible business that. They must all be over 30. 

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

Oh, absolutely. The back 5 certainly didn't work for Everton going forward, and I'm sure Rafa was hoping they would be more effective than they were in that respect.

 

However, I'm pretty sure the priority for him in lining up that way was to stifle their front two with the three centre backs to start with and that was largely achieved.

 

 

They stifled the life out of their let’s be honest quite dangerous attack in terms of how they play the long ball, after Rafa made his change, however, they literally had nowt to go off, their forwards were completely cut off and ran out of steam, not great to watch for the first half, but tactically exactly what was required and that’s why they win so comprehensively in the end, again it could have been 5/6 easily. And Dacoure, what a player!

[TRon]

25 minutes ago, HTT II said:

They stifled the life out of their let’s be honest quite dangerous attack in terms of how they play the long ball, after Rafa made his change, however, they literally had nowt to go off, their forwards were completely cut off and ran out of steam, not great to watch for the first half, but tactically exactly what was required and that’s why they win so comprehensively in the end, again it could have been 5/6 easily. And Dacoure, what a player!

 

Dacoure did an interview in the Times on Monday before the game praising Rafa's coaching. He was raving about the attention to detail and how he was making him a better player. I was going to post it here but honestly it was just making me depressed reading it. 

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

Dacoure did an interview in the Times on Monday before the game praising Rafa's coaching. He was raving about the attention to detail and how he was making him a better player. I was going to post it here but honestly it was just making me depressed reading it. 

Aye I saw some of the comments, meanwhile we have Shelvey praising Bruce… night and day!

[KaKa]

14 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Dacoure did an interview in the Times on Monday before the game praising Rafa's coaching. He was raving about the attention to detail and how he was making him a better player. I was going to post it here but honestly it was just making me depressed reading it. 

 

The season has barely started and Doucoure already feels like his individual game has been much improved, never mind the rest of the team on the whole.

 

Our manager still needs more time to teach the team to come out of their own half.

[nufcjb]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

The season has barely started and Doucoure already feels like his individual game has been much improved, never mind the rest of the team on the whole.

 

Our manager still needs more time to teach the team to come out of their own half.

Our manager is busy slating Ryder and the Chron. Great times.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by nufcjb

[rgk_lfc]

3 hours ago, Fantail Breeze said:

May be remembering this wrong but weren’t we always better in the second half under Rafa?

 

Rafa's team are almost always better in the second half. There is a final in 2005 which is a testament to that. His greatest gift as a manager is to sense the flow of the game and make adjustments in the 45-60th  minute. Of course, that only works when he has good options on the bench. 

[Yorkie]

I can't think of many of the really remarkable matches with us where the second half wasn't the most important. ManU, ManC, Everton, Norwich, Brighton, a lot of narrow home wins (Palace, Stoke, Swansea, Watford, Huddersfield x3) - all matches that were decided by second half winners. There'll be exceptions obviously but yeah I think it's a pretty fair conclusion that his teams are stronger in the second half. But then we all know his game management is arguably his strongest attribute. 

[Mike]

Browsed their subreddit because I hate myself. The energy and excitement they're feeling makes me sick. We just cannot have nice things.

[samptime29]

Really strong in game management from Rafa last night. 

[Deuce]

Strike from Townsend was an absolute peach.
 

If Gray keeps up this level of play I wonder if he doesn’t push himself into the national team picture.

 

I’m genuinely more invested in how Everton are getting on than NUFC. 

[Yorkie]

42 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said:

Strike from Townsend was an absolute peach.
 

If Gray keeps up this level of play I wonder if he doesn’t push himself into the national team picture.

 

I’m genuinely more invested in how Everton are getting on than NUFC. 

 

I listened to the Everton game on the fucking radio last night ffs. Last time I did that, I think, was the Norwich 4-3 game, when you got the sense off the forum something dramatic could happen. 

[The College Dropout]

On 13/09/2021 at 18:34, HawK said:

 

I'm not sure I agree, it's more the attitude of the players. There's an anecdote around when Guardiola was Barca manager, he would pull Henry into his office and ask him what he could do better next time. Same sort of stuff really?

Fair comment. Perhaps Guardiola’s playing career helps in this aspect. 
 

With Rafa it’s a clear line. At the biggest clubs he’s managed in terms of expectations - he’s not been terribly popular with the players. Inter, Real and Chelsea. His biggest successes have come with underdogs in Valencia and Liverpool. And even at Liverpool, the players like him cos they were competitive and won things - they all say he’s distant and cold. 
 

I think someone like Carlo is the opposite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chicane]

Might be a bit out of touch with this opinion these days idk but I just laugh at the "cold and distant" type stuff. These are grown ass men, professionals, and yet it makes them sound like little kids who need a hug from their momma.

 

It's just a bit eye rolling for me. If I was in that position, I'd be obsessed with maximizing my ability and a manager like Rafa is perfect for that you'd think. He'll tell you where you need to improve even if you score a hat trick, but isn't that a good thing? You can always be better and Rafa seems like an endless pool of football knowledge to learn from.

[Pata]

3 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

I listened to the Everton game on the fucking radio last night ffs. Last time I did that, I think, was the Norwich 4-3 game, when you got the sense off the forum something dramatic could happen. 

 

I celebrated their goals yesterday more than any goal we've scored after he left. Confusing times but I presume it's because the way the media, our own 'Bruce is better'-brigade and Everton fans have been talking about Rafa and his signings.

 

Have also been reading Everton forum and their reddit, I'm basically GHoeberx now.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Pata

[HawK]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Fair comment. Perhaps Guardiola’s playing career helps in this aspect. 
 

With Rafa it’s a clear line. At the biggest clubs he’s managed in terms of expectations - he’s not been terribly popular with the players. Inter, Real and Chelsea. His biggest successes have come with underdogs in Valencia and Liverpool. And even at Liverpool, the players like him cos they were competitive and won things - they all say he’s distant and cold. 
 

I think someone like Carlo is the opposite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, I take the point that Benitez won't illicit the same sort of response from players as Guardiola did/does. Maybe it's a reputation thing, but I won't argue against bigger egos not listening - look at all the shit from Owen, Gerrard, how his Real tenure unravelled. It's a crying shame that some of the bigger players won't be told what to do, but not all of them are like this. He needs players who are willing to work hard and listen, and when Pros get to the absolute top of the game, there are really not many people they will listen to. See Zidane, Guardiola - legends of the game at the biggest clubs in the world (Zidane more so than Guardiola ), able to work with some of the biggest names in the game and get them to perform. Half the battle is getting the team to sing from the same hymn-sheet, and if they are all listening and pulling in one direction, it's arguably more important than whatever tactics/instructions are issued, as long as they are all followed. I don't think anyone would consider Zidane a tactical mastermind, but there's no doubt who's the manager of the team when they take to the pitch.

 

I think it's less that you can't tell big players what to do, it's more that it needs to come from someone they respect absolutely. And even the biggest managers don't illicit respect automatically, see Staam under Ferguson or Anelka under pretty much anyone. Curiously, these falling-outs don't seem to happen so much if the manager at the top was a top player - Guardiola, Zidane, Mancini, rather than the more 'professional' managers, e.g. Benitez, Mourinho, AVB and so on. There seems to be a limit to how high a level these professional managers can go whilst demanding absolute tactical discipline from the players they manage.

 

I think managers like Ancelotti just seem to let players go out and play, a more Keegan-esque approach, and instill confidence in players in themselves, rather than the system, to get results. This only works though if your team is that damn good they don't need a system to win, and your players have the flair and guile and intelligence to do it themselves. But if you get the two together, top players within a rigid system - Barcelona & tiki-taka, it's almost unstoppable.

 

/observation