Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Rafa with the nail on the head.

 

I love all the, "I love Rafa and want him to stay, however....", posts.

 

I’ve said from the off I love him, but don’t like his brand of football or his tactics, not at home anyway and never will. But I do love him and have 100% trust and confidence in him as our manager.

 

It's the opposite for me, I didn't like him much as Liverpool manager, although deep down I knew he was good. By the time there was talk of him coming here, I had had my fill of gormless idiots running the team like Pardew, Kinnear and Carver, so it made me appreciate a man who knows his mind and is meticulous in his work on and off the field. I might not always like his methods but I respect them 100%. Personally I'm of the view, given a few genuine Premier class players he'll more than show his worth.

 

I’ve rated him as far back as Valencia and was extremely jelous when Liverpool appointed him. I used to have loads of documents/dossiers/articles he wrote for UEFA when I was into coaching and some of his stuff man... one was all about possession and the importance of it. Sadly I think he’s lost a bit of his mojo the last few years. Inter was a huge mistake and Madrid also, the wrong choice for someone usually bang on when it comes to making decisions. I’m grateful he’s here, but it’s kind of pointless. Kind of like a Ferrari with no engine. We all know who that’s down to though...

 

So if you know how meticulous he is, and you yourself are a coach, your criticism makes even less sense.

 

Have a go at home, 50k can't be wrong, stop sitting back on purpose.....honestly man, are you sure you didn't pick up John Carver's jotter instead of Rafa's dossier by mistake? 

 

You would think I’m criticising Rafa full stop, I’m not, I’m criticising some of the tactics, how we play, you know things that are open to debate... jogTron

[steve_69]

Rafa with the nail on the head.

 

I love all the, "I love Rafa and want him to stay, however....", posts.

 

I’ve said from the off I love him, but don’t like his brand of football or his tactics, not at home anyway and never will. But I do love him and have 100% trust and confidence in him as our manager.

 

It's the opposite for me, I didn't like him much as Liverpool manager, although deep down I knew he was good. By the time there was talk of him coming here, I had had my fill of gormless idiots running the team like Pardew, Kinnear and Carver, so it made me appreciate a man who knows his mind and is meticulous in his work on and off the field. I might not always like his methods but I respect them 100%. Personally I'm of the view, given a few genuine Premier class players he'll more than show his worth.

 

I’ve rated him as far back as Valencia and was extremely jelous when Liverpool appointed him. I used to have loads of documents/dossiers/articles he wrote for UEFA when I was into coaching and some of his stuff man... one was all about possession and the importance of it. Sadly I think he’s lost a bit of his mojo the last few years. Inter was a huge mistake and Madrid also, the wrong choice for someone usually bang on when it comes to making decisions. I’m grateful he’s here, but it’s kind of pointless. Kind of like a Ferrari with no engine. We all know who that’s down to though...

 

OK, one last question and then i'm going to leave it - You seem to place absolutely no blame for our results and the way that we play on the players and 100% of it on Rafa and his tactics (i'm basing that on the fact that throughout this conversation you haven't mentioned the players being to blame at all, so it's not me being 'melodramatic'). 

 

When the teams that you were coaching lost a game did you always consider it to be your fault as the coach? Were the players ever to blame?

 

 

 

Never blamed myself, f*** that. Would blame the wind before myself. And the Town Moor once.

 

..and yet it's always Rafa's tactics to blame with regards to NUFC, not the players?! You don't see any contradiction in that?

 

That despite the fact we're in the top 10? PL teams for chances created this season and have the 3rd best goal difference in the bottom half of the league.

 

Maybe i'm just a bit too protective of Rafa but I genuinely think some of your comments are pretty unfair to him and his tactics. 

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Tbf to HTT, like, my reading is the opposite. He’s offering some perspective to counter the “it is 100% the players”. The ganging-up is also making for uncomfortable reading. Listen to the podcast, if you don’t think Rafa agonises over his decision making and knows he gets it wrong sometimes. All managers/everybody does. He does less than most.

 

Cheers man, it’s Ok I can deal with it, the same people would be up in arms if it was anyone other than Rafa even in the same circumstances, they are just scared to question anything. Sheeple basically who cannot separate things. Me I can. I can see that Rafa is a great manager, is doing a great job, that we have a Championship squad, that players have made mistakes etc. But I can also see faults or issues in tactics, approach to games, how we play and other stuff and I’m prepaired to bring it up and question it.

[mrmojorisin75]

Rafa with the nail on the head.

 

I love all the, "I love Rafa and want him to stay, however....", posts.

 

I’ve said from the off I love him, but don’t like his brand of football or his tactics, not at home anyway and never will. But I do love him and have 100% trust and confidence in him as our manager.

Honest question like but what do you expect in terms of home tactics? His tactics are proven to work very effectively at the highest level and they're very good away from home. He's building and imposing a system around the club, once/if he gets better players the quality of play will improve.

 

The bit you're complaining about there is arguably the hardest in top flight football, especially when you don't have money and a group of average players at best. It's been said but if we open up with this group of players we'll be murdered by most teams in the division, so the sensible option is exactly what he's doing.

 

If he gets 5 years in the job and a decent amount of backing do you think we'll still be playing the same game at home? Well I mean we probably will be but we'll be controlling it better and dominating more.

 

I expect us to be less defensive and when we are on top and playing well to try and keep that going which we often don’t. I don’t expect gung ho all out attacking football and I understand the opposition will have a say in matters, but we worry far too much about the opposition and what they can do and forget about what e can do or do not try and do what we can do enough or could be doing.

 

His tactics are proven at the very highest level, but that’s with top teams. His tactics at home with this team are not working or working very well because our home form is poor and even in the Championship we lost quite a few home games which we shouldn’t have. Blame the quality of the players or lack of, but I do t regard them as being so s*** we cannot beat the likes of Swansea at home or should play the way we did against them in the second half or how we did at home to Brighton for example. I could name many other teams from last tear who came to SJP and schooled us!

 

I’ve seen us play really well in some halves of games and all I want us to do again is to keep playing that way or try and keep playing that way.

 

We know he’s a tactical manager and on the road I’m fine with it, just not at home because I feel we should be getting more points than we have at home this season if we adjusted how we played, or approached games differently or second halfs.

 

I think if he was backed with millions and we had better players we would still flatter to deceive at home due to his tactics. That wouldn’t be highlighted as much because we would no doubt get better results due to having better players of course.

 

He’s a tactical genius and I’m obviously not, but I’m not the only one that sees issues with the set up at home and this dates back to last season.

 

He he got more wrong at home than he has got right IMO and I’d like to see us try something else before it’s too late.

 

I have no problems playing like that against the best teams or away from home. Away from home I couldn’t care less how we perform as long as we pick up points.

Our home form is poor because we've either had goalkeepers throwing the ball into their own net or strikers that can't finish when we're on top. No team as poor as us will ever dominate an entire game, well not never but very rarely indeed.

 

Fine, blame the players or finishing.

 

I blame a number of factors, tactics used at times, approach, even wrong selection of players. All of which have contributed. It seems many on here, however, only blame the players, or the fans...

Well you were talking about form in the post I quoted, our form would have been much better if we had players who can finish or keepers who weren't terrible at one thing or another. We all seem to agree on this.

 

I'll concede that at times it appears as if Rafa is the reason we're not winning games due to his tactical approach, but that's a matter of how you how it; myself and others believe that we're not losing these games because of how he sets up rather than not winning them.

 

I'm not a fan of Rafa on subs mind, just for balance. I don't think he reacts fast enough at times and I often don't understand what he's trying to do but I think we can all accept he knows more than we ever will on that front.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Rafa with the nail on the head.

 

I love all the, "I love Rafa and want him to stay, however....", posts.

 

I’ve said from the off I love him, but don’t like his brand of football or his tactics, not at home anyway and never will. But I do love him and have 100% trust and confidence in him as our manager.

 

It's the opposite for me, I didn't like him much as Liverpool manager, although deep down I knew he was good. By the time there was talk of him coming here, I had had my fill of gormless idiots running the team like Pardew, Kinnear and Carver, so it made me appreciate a man who knows his mind and is meticulous in his work on and off the field. I might not always like his methods but I respect them 100%. Personally I'm of the view, given a few genuine Premier class players he'll more than show his worth.

 

I’ve rated him as far back as Valencia and was extremely jelous when Liverpool appointed him. I used to have loads of documents/dossiers/articles he wrote for UEFA when I was into coaching and some of his stuff man... one was all about possession and the importance of it. Sadly I think he’s lost a bit of his mojo the last few years. Inter was a huge mistake and Madrid also, the wrong choice for someone usually bang on when it comes to making decisions. I’m grateful he’s here, but it’s kind of pointless. Kind of like a Ferrari with no engine. We all know who that’s down to though...

 

OK, one last question and then i'm going to leave it - You seem to place absolutely no blame for our results and the way that we play on the players and 100% of it on Rafa and his tactics (i'm basing that on the fact that throughout this conversation you haven't mentioned the players being to blame at all, so it's not me being 'melodramatic'). 

 

When the teams that you were coaching lost a game did you always consider it to be your fault as the coach? Were the players ever to blame?

 

 

 

Never blamed myself, f*** that. Would blame the wind before myself. And the Town Moor once.

 

..and yet it's always Rafa's tactics to blame with regards to NUFC, not the players?! You don't see any contradiction in that?

 

That despite the fact we're in the top 10? PL teams for chances created this season and have the 3rd best goal difference in the bottom half of the league.

 

Maybe i'm just a bit too protective of Rafa but I genuinely think some of your comments are a pretty unfair to him and his tactics. 

 

 

 

You are focusing on way too much what I’ve said in this thread. Go around other threads and you’ll see me blame player mistakes, lack of quality, Ashley, fans, fucking everything. I’ll also point the finger at Rafa when I see something I personally feel I have an issue with and will make said feelings known, not least of all in the Rafa thread all about Rafa. Hence...

 

Btw I blame Rafas tactics probably in the 5% range for where we are at. You wouldn’t know though because you’re camped out in this thread.

 

Go into the Ritchie thread or the Shelvey thread...

 

I believe dropping Ritchie period and playing Murphy period would help us significantly more than some of Rafa’s tactics do not. Significantly more.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Rafa with the nail on the head.

 

I love all the, "I love Rafa and want him to stay, however....", posts.

 

I’ve said from the off I love him, but don’t like his brand of football or his tactics, not at home anyway and never will. But I do love him and have 100% trust and confidence in him as our manager.

Honest question like but what do you expect in terms of home tactics? His tactics are proven to work very effectively at the highest level and they're very good away from home. He's building and imposing a system around the club, once/if he gets better players the quality of play will improve.

 

The bit you're complaining about there is arguably the hardest in top flight football, especially when you don't have money and a group of average players at best. It's been said but if we open up with this group of players we'll be murdered by most teams in the division, so the sensible option is exactly what he's doing.

 

If he gets 5 years in the job and a decent amount of backing do you think we'll still be playing the same game at home? Well I mean we probably will be but we'll be controlling it better and dominating more.

 

I expect us to be less defensive and when we are on top and playing well to try and keep that going which we often don’t. I don’t expect gung ho all out attacking football and I understand the opposition will have a say in matters, but we worry far too much about the opposition and what they can do and forget about what e can do or do not try and do what we can do enough or could be doing.

 

His tactics are proven at the very highest level, but that’s with top teams. His tactics at home with this team are not working or working very well because our home form is poor and even in the Championship we lost quite a few home games which we shouldn’t have. Blame the quality of the players or lack of, but I do t regard them as being so s*** we cannot beat the likes of Swansea at home or should play the way we did against them in the second half or how we did at home to Brighton for example. I could name many other teams from last tear who came to SJP and schooled us!

 

I’ve seen us play really well in some halves of games and all I want us to do again is to keep playing that way or try and keep playing that way.

 

We know he’s a tactical manager and on the road I’m fine with it, just not at home because I feel we should be getting more points than we have at home this season if we adjusted how we played, or approached games differently or second halfs.

 

I think if he was backed with millions and we had better players we would still flatter to deceive at home due to his tactics. That wouldn’t be highlighted as much because we would no doubt get better results due to having better players of course.

 

He’s a tactical genius and I’m obviously not, but I’m not the only one that sees issues with the set up at home and this dates back to last season.

 

He he got more wrong at home than he has got right IMO and I’d like to see us try something else before it’s too late.

 

I have no problems playing like that against the best teams or away from home. Away from home I couldn’t care less how we perform as long as we pick up points.

Our home form is poor because we've either had goalkeepers throwing the ball into their own net or strikers that can't finish when we're on top. No team as poor as us will ever dominate an entire game, well not never but very rarely indeed.

 

Fine, blame the players or finishing.

 

I blame a number of factors, tactics used at times, approach, even wrong selection of players. All of which have contributed. It seems many on here, however, only blame the players, or the fans...

Well you were talking about form in the post I quoted, our form would have been much better if we had players who can finish or keepers who weren't terrible at one thing or another. We all seem to agree on this.

 

I'll concede that at times it appears as if Rafa is the reason we're not winning games due to his tactical approach, but that's a matter of how you how it; myself and others believe that we're not losing these games because of how he sets up rather than not winning them.

 

I'm not a fan of Rafa on subs mind, just for balance. I don't think he reacts fast enough at times and I often don't understand what he's trying to do but I think we can all accept he knows more than we ever will on that front.

 

For me I believe our home form could be better if we approached home games differently in a more positive manner or if we played a different way. We have the squad we have and have to make do with it, at home, we have been disappointing more often than not and that to me is down to the approach and tactics, not always of course, but quite a lot, especially against lesser teams and against teams we can beat and should beat.

[steve_69]

Rafa with the nail on the head.

 

I love all the, "I love Rafa and want him to stay, however....", posts.

 

I’ve said from the off I love him, but don’t like his brand of football or his tactics, not at home anyway and never will. But I do love him and have 100% trust and confidence in him as our manager.

 

It's the opposite for me, I didn't like him much as Liverpool manager, although deep down I knew he was good. By the time there was talk of him coming here, I had had my fill of gormless idiots running the team like Pardew, Kinnear and Carver, so it made me appreciate a man who knows his mind and is meticulous in his work on and off the field. I might not always like his methods but I respect them 100%. Personally I'm of the view, given a few genuine Premier class players he'll more than show his worth.

 

I’ve rated him as far back as Valencia and was extremely jelous when Liverpool appointed him. I used to have loads of documents/dossiers/articles he wrote for UEFA when I was into coaching and some of his stuff man... one was all about possession and the importance of it. Sadly I think he’s lost a bit of his mojo the last few years. Inter was a huge mistake and Madrid also, the wrong choice for someone usually bang on when it comes to making decisions. I’m grateful he’s here, but it’s kind of pointless. Kind of like a Ferrari with no engine. We all know who that’s down to though...

 

OK, one last question and then i'm going to leave it - You seem to place absolutely no blame for our results and the way that we play on the players and 100% of it on Rafa and his tactics (i'm basing that on the fact that throughout this conversation you haven't mentioned the players being to blame at all, so it's not me being 'melodramatic'). 

 

When the teams that you were coaching lost a game did you always consider it to be your fault as the coach? Were the players ever to blame?

 

 

 

Never blamed myself, f*** that. Would blame the wind before myself. And the Town Moor once.

 

..and yet it's always Rafa's tactics to blame with regards to NUFC, not the players?! You don't see any contradiction in that?

 

That despite the fact we're in the top 10? PL teams for chances created this season and have the 3rd best goal difference in the bottom half of the league.

 

Maybe i'm just a bit too protective of Rafa but I genuinely think some of your comments are a pretty unfair to him and his tactics. 

 

 

 

You are focusing on way too much what I’ve said in this thread. Go around other threads and you’ll see me blame player mistakes, lack of quality, Ashley, fans, f***ing everything. I’ll also point the finger at Rafa when I see something I personally feel I have an issue with and will make said feelings known, not least of all in the Rafa thread all about Rafa. Hence...

 

Btw I blame Rafas tactics probably in the 5% range for where we are at. You wouldn’t know though because you’re camped out in this thread.

 

Go into the Ritchie thread or the Shelvey thread...

 

I believe dropping Ritchie period and playing Murphy period would help us significantly more than some of Rafa’s tactics do not. Significantly more.

 

 

 

Fair enough.

I have been camped out in here to be fair, mainly because it's the only thread that's been remotely active today.

[Consortium of one]

When you have to paint a house and all you have are buckets of shit to paint it with, no matter how hard you try it's still gonna look like shit.

[Kasper]

HTT I don't think it's your point of view people take issue with (I know I dont). It's some of the fabricated reasoning for your points. And then when someone points out that there's another team on the pitch as well, your answer is "dont give me that stuff about another team on the pitch".

[Guest Howaythetoon]

By the way this thread has pissed me off because there was a time on here where you could debate about issues even if they were not massively significant, but these days everyone seems blinkered and uptight. Rafa seems untouchable for example and I’m one of his biggest fans btw, go onto Rawk, go back to the first threads on here, I’ve waxed lyrical about the man plenty.

 

Fucking hell some on here would go mad at some of the old debates on nufc.nu when we were riding high under Sir Bobby. Bellamy’s finishing, Dyer’s end product, Robert’s work rate, Shearer being too big for the club, Sir Bobby being past it, were all hot topics of debate.

 

With regards to Rafa it’s went a bit RAWK tbh and I think I’ve probably had enough (yay) as it’s boring and I feel like no matter what point you make people misconstrue it or try and twist what you’re trying to point out.

 

For what it’s worth:

 

1 - I fucking love Rafa, great manager, top bloke, easily too good for us. I trust him 100% as our manager!

2 - Ashley has fucked us all over.

3 - This is the worst squad ability wise we’ve had since I’ve been following us.

4 - Player mistakes this season have cost us the most outside of lack of quality additions.

5 - Ritchie needs dropped permantly.

6 - Murphy needs to play every game as does Merino if fit.

7 - Lascelles is a top player and a top professional.

8 - I dont mind how we set up away from home.

9 - I dont like how we play, especially at home.

10 - I portion some blame for our poor home form at the doorstep of Rafa.

11 - I do not want Rafa out.

12 - I love NUFC, but its never gong to be better until Ashley has gone. That’s when I’ll be back.

 

So on that note I say adios..

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

There's literally just been like 5 pages of debate about it.

[steve_69]

By the way this thread has p*ssed me off because there was a time on here where you could debate about issues even if they were not massively significant, but these days everyone seems blinkered and uptight. Rafa seems untouchable for example and I’m one of his biggest fans btw, go onto Rawk, go back to the first threads on here, I’ve waxed lyrical about the man plenty.

 

f***ing hell some on here would go mad at some of the old debates on nufc.nu when we were riding high under Sir Bobby. Bellamy’s finishing, Dyer’s end product, Robert’s work rate, Shearer being too big for the club, Sir Bobby being past it, were all hot topics of debate.

 

With regards to Rafa it’s went a bit RAWK tbh and I think I’ve probably had enough (yay) as it’s boring and I feel like no matter what point you make people misconstrue it or try and twist what you’re trying to point out.

 

For what it’s worth:

 

1 - I f***ing love Rafa, great manager, top bloke, easily too good for us. I trust him 100% as our manager!

2 - Ashley has f***ed us all over.

3 - This is the worst squad ability wise we’ve had since I’ve been following us.

4 - Player mistakes this season have cost us the most outside of lack of quality additions.

5 - Ritchie needs dropped permantly.

6 - Murphy needs to play every game as does Merino if fit.

7 - Lascelles is a top player and a top professional.

8 - I dont mind how we set up away from home.

9 - I dont like how we play, especially at home.

10 - I portion some blame for our poor home form at the doorstep of Rafa.

11 - I do not want Rafa out.

12 - I love NUFC, but its never gong to be better until Ashley has gone. That’s when I’ll be back.

 

So on that note I say adios..

 

 

Doesn't what's been going on on this thread this afternoon constitute a debate? Sometimes in a debate one person's opinions are not popular, as yours weren't for many of us, but that's what makes a debate, right - people with differing opinions talking about them? No one has insulted anyone from what i can recall (and that's pretty rare for this place  ).

 

Anyway, just because I can - Who's being melodramatic now, eh? 

[magorific]

By the way this thread has p*ssed me off because there was a time on here where you could debate about issues even if they were not massively significant, but these days everyone seems blinkered and uptight. Rafa seems untouchable for example and I’m one of his biggest fans btw, go onto Rawk, go back to the first threads on here, I’ve waxed lyrical about the man plenty.

 

f***ing hell some on here would go mad at some of the old debates on nufc.nu when we were riding high under Sir Bobby. Bellamy’s finishing, Dyer’s end product, Robert’s work rate, Shearer being too big for the club, Sir Bobby being past it, were all hot topics of debate.

 

With regards to Rafa it’s went a bit RAWK tbh and I think I’ve probably had enough (yay) as it’s boring and I feel like no matter what point you make people misconstrue it or try and twist what you’re trying to point out.

 

For what it’s worth:

 

1 - I f***ing love Rafa, great manager, top bloke, easily too good for us. I trust him 100% as our manager!

2 - Ashley has f***ed us all over.

3 - This is the worst squad ability wise we’ve had since I’ve been following us.

4 - Player mistakes this season have cost us the most outside of lack of quality additions.

5 - Ritchie needs dropped permantly.

6 - Murphy needs to play every game as does Merino if fit.

7 - Lascelles is a top player and a top professional.

8 - I dont mind how we set up away from home.

9 - I dont like how we play, especially at home.

10 - I portion some blame for our poor home form at the doorstep of Rafa.

11 - I do not want Rafa out.

12 - I love NUFC, but its never gong to be better until Ashley has gone. That’s when I’ll be back.

 

So on that note I say adios..

 

 

Remind me how old you are? I had you down as 40-something, like me. In which case, if this is the worst squad you've ever seen, you were watching some different players to me back in the late 80s and early 90s!

[Dave]

There's literally just been like 5 pages of debate about it.

 

[Happinesstan]

Anybody know how many times we've taken the lead but failed to win?

[Wilson]

 

Still not enough love for this quote. It's not just a good point, it's THE point.

 

Listening to him talk about it just explains everything.  Not sure how anyone can question the man myself.

[54]

Anybody know how many times we've taken the lead but failed to win?

6 times this season against: Southampton, Man United, Chelsea, Leicester, Burnley, Crystal Palace.

[DJ_NUFC]

He said our biggest issue has been not scoring the second goal, as it puts pressure on the defence. He's spot on. This is the crux of the issue. We haven't had a decent striker for so long.

[Vinny Green Balls]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

 

I dont overestimate the quality at all, it’s the worst team we’ve had since Ozzie. But the gap isn’t that big between ourselves and those around us and I’m sick of hearing about how s*** the team is as it’s now becoming the de facto excuse when we fail to beat Swansea at home, or Brighton, or Bournemouth...

Yep. I still don't buy that we'd be cast adrift at the bottom without Rafa - I think quite a few managers would have us around 15th/16th right now, we're not the only squad full of Championship players down there.

 

Genuinely think we'd be in pre-Silva Hull's position without Rafa tbh. Game of opinions and all that, thankfully we'll never know and we're in a relatively okay position considering.

 

At the very least, I think our GD would be significantly worse. An all guns blazing approach with Championship players, and in a 38 match league with the threat of relegation, is not wise imo.

[nemtizz]

Great quote, that.

[Dave]

Just listening to the podcast. I reckon he's definitely got people checking social media and stuff for the fans comments, which would be simultaneously heartening and worrying.

[Robster]

WE LOVE YOU RAFA.

[Bimpy474]

Just listening to the podcast. I reckon he's definitely got people checking social media and stuff for the fans comments, which would be simultaneously heartening and worrying.

 

It won't be people it'll be Rafa himself, the man is obsessed with football 

[Dave]

I thought that but I just can't see how he'd have the time.

[Bimpy474]

I have this image of his wife sitting at the dinner table as his dinner gets cold, he's on the laptop reading this forum, 'yeah in a minute love'