Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Thiago]

26 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

What decision?

 

We weren't an option for him in the summer

The decision to join Everton while our fate was still unknown. 

 

When he was announced we were hearing that there was no viable way for them to stop the takeover. I can promise you their chats with Rafa would have been a lot more informative and clear on timelines etc. I love the guy, but he was never going to be a success there. There's a reason only one man had done it before him in 129 years. Even the briefings coming out painted him as 'the best they could get'. 

 

I admire his work ethic, but for someone that has spent his whole career wanting total control it baffles me why he wouldn't wait another six months to a year. He'd have had chance to shape this club in every conceivable way, and basically been seen as the man that ushered in a revolution at a success starved club. He's never really done that before either. He's usually only ever done it at clubs with a past. 

 

Even if he hadn't worked with Liverpool previously, what is appealing about that job? No disrespect to Everton, but you're going into a two team city in which the other team is streets ahead and you've got no money to change things. Throw in that a good portion hate you, it just screams dumb idea.

 

 

[joeyt]

He wouldn't have known that the takeover would be announced 3 months into the season, it wasn't exactly making progress back in June

 

It seemed to even take Staveley and her entourage by surprise how quickly it was resolved

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by joeyt

[TRon]

43 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

I think you're right about the type of football but I think it's old fashioned and gets found out quite easily these days, this is why both Mourinho and Rafa struggle nowadays (in my opinion).

 

I think that kind of football can still work, but it will probably a suit a 2nd tier team, and by that I mean those outside of the top 6. Oddly enough, I think Mourinho might have had a good crack at the Everton job as he wouldn't have met with the immediate hostility Rafa got. But yeah, defensive football is not winning titles again in a hurry, not when you have teams like Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool leading the way. 

[Ronaldo]

49 minutes ago, The Butcher said:

Sorry, but no chance.

Course he is. It takes a long time for him to get a side modelled in his image. There were even some initial teething problems in the Championship and we lost a fair few games in that league.

He’s made two bad career decisions since leaving us, and he’s certainly to some extent suffered out of his loyalty to us in the summer of ‘16. I feel for him. He’s far, far better than this. 

 

[Bintang]

Agree with a lot of what has been said. His style has probably not kept up with the times, but it still has a place in the game. The Everton budget certainly did not help. 

Also, they always say that as a manager if you lose the fans you have no chance. He had lost the fans before he had even started because of his Liverpool connection. Basically he had no chance. 

[Hanshithispantz]

I just feel like nowadays the distance between someone like Rafa and your average top level manager has shortened massively. On top of that managers are getting younger and more data driven.

 

World Class is a pretty strong term I'd say when we you look at what other managers are doing atm.

 

 

 

[St. Maximin]

What’s the criteria for defining world class? He hasn’t really done anything of note in years. You can see the clear impact he had here but he wouldn’t be the first or last manager to get a team promoted and then mid-table in the Prem. Seems to be a reason he isn’t getting attention from the best teams now. 

Saying that managers and clubs can often just be the wrong for each other and that’s clearly happened here and I imagine China too. Clearly not all his fault, but pretty understandable if Everton fanbase is annoyed. 

[gbandit]

What sets Rafa apart from a lot of managers is the longer he stays the better his teams get. For a lot of managers they come in and get a reaction from the players and things look ok for a while and then tail off. I do think that if Everton keep backing him he’ll be successful there but the fans clearly hate him and it could get pretty toxic. Hopefully it does and they can fuck off down to the championship for a year 

[Happinesstan]

6 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

What’s the criteria for defining world class? He hasn’t really done anything of note in years. You can see the clear impact he had here but he wouldn’t be the first or last manager to get a team promoted and then mid-table in the Prem. Seems to be a reason he isn’t getting attention from the best teams now. 

Saying that managers and clubs can often just be the wrong for each other and that’s clearly happened here and I imagine China too. Clearly not all his fault, but pretty understandable if Everton fanbase is annoyed. 

Top clubs don't need a Rafa anymore. You have to remember Liverpool were anything but a top club when he took over.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, The Butcher said:

 

Very good prospect. Get experience for 2-3 years at a middling Premier League team then we can get him to replace Trippier.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Optimistic Nut

[MrRaspberryJam]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Very good prospect. Get experience for 2-3 years at a middling Premier League team then we can get him to replace Trippier.

 

 

 

 

Nice. Real nice. 

[Neil]

13 minutes ago, Mr Raspberry Jam said:

 

Nice. Real nice. 

 

No need for stuff like this IMO.

 

"Middling" my arse.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Thiago said:

The decision to join Everton while our fate was still unknown. 

 

When he was announced we were hearing that there was no viable way for them to stop the takeover. I can promise you their chats with Rafa would have been a lot more informative and clear on timelines etc. I love the guy, but he was never going to be a success there. There's a reason only one man had done it before him in 129 years. Even the briefings coming out painted him as 'the best they could get'. 

 

I admire his work ethic, but for someone that has spent his whole career wanting total control it baffles me why he wouldn't wait another six months to a year. He'd have had chance to shape this club in every conceivable way, and basically been seen as the man that ushered in a revolution at a success starved club. He's never really done that before either. He's usually only ever done it at clubs with a past. 

 

Even if he hadn't worked with Liverpool previously, what is appealing about that job? No disrespect to Everton, but you're going into a two team city in which the other team is streets ahead and you've got no money to change things. Throw in that a good portion hate you, it just screams dumb idea.

 

 

 

His home is in Liverpool. If you can recall, he came to us ahead of London clubs because he wanted to be closer to home. That's it. 

[sh74]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

His home is in Liverpool. If you can recall, he came to us ahead of London clubs because he wanted to be closer to home. That's it. 

He went to China.

[wormy]

I get he loves his work but I find it mad that instead of just going and spending some time at his home in Liverpool whilst biding his time for a more suitable role, he jumped at a job that everyone (apart from him, I guess) knew would end in tears solely because of the fans just because said job is near that home. 

[Neil]

It's not solely because of the fans at all, though. It's because our club needs gutting from top to bottom. 

 

He's not helping himself however with a series of utterly bewildering decisions. Players may have let him down, we may have had some bad luck with injuries but it genuinely seems like he's losing the plot.

 

Playing an ageing full back out of position instead of the extremely capable left back he'd ostracised on the bench is indicative of where things are at.

[Dokko]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

It's not solely because of the fans at all, though. It's because our club needs gutting from top to bottom. 

 

He's not helping himself however with a series of utterly bewildering decisions. Players may have let him down, we may have had some bad luck with injuries but it genuinely seems like he's losing the plot.

 

Playing an ageing full back out of position instead of the extremely capable left back he'd ostracised on the bench is indicative of where things are at.

 

Massively petty by him. Also with a new LB coming and and Digne frozen out it devalues him for when other clubs come in knowing everton are up against if for FFP. Especially as another big fee signing is coming in as well. Just don't see the logic in doing this. You play him till he leaves if the position requires. 

[The Prophet]

Rafa has always been quite petty like.

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Massively petty by him. Also with a new LB coming and and Digne frozen out it devalues him for when other clubs come in knowing everton are up against if for FFP. Especially as another big fee signing is coming in as well. Just don't see the logic in doing this. You play him till he leaves if the position requires. 

 

Makes little to no sense. Don't understand what he's really achieving other than getting rid of one of our best players in one of the few positions we have someone of actual quality (albeit hes been below his best the last 12 months).

 

In short, club is a fucking mess but Rafa is threatening to make it worse rather than better.

[LV]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

 

Makes little to no sense. Don't understand what he's really achieving other than getting rid of one of our best players in one of the few positions we have someone of actual quality (albeit hes been below his best the last 12 months).

 

In short, club is a fucking mess but Rafa is threatening to make it worse rather than better.

Does he have the final say on transfers? Surely those above him are agreeing/ sanctioning these moves? 

[Dr Jinx]

Apparently having a board meeting tomorrow to see if they are still all on the same page after backing him before.

 

If he’s still in favour they will approve a transfer strategy, if not then he’ll be gone before end of month.

[wormy]

20 minutes ago, Neil said:

It's not solely because of the fans at all, though. It's because our club needs gutting from top to bottom. 

 

He's not helping himself however with a series of utterly bewildering decisions. Players may have let him down, we may have had some bad luck with injuries but it genuinely seems like he's losing the plot.

 

Playing an ageing full back out of position instead of the extremely capable left back he'd ostracised on the bench is indicative of where things are at.

 

 Agreed on all of the above and wasn't meaning to blame it solely on the fans; badly worded. More that the instant pushback over his rumoured appointment alone should've set alarm bells ringing for him.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by wormy

[Fantail Breeze]

29 minutes ago, Neil said:

It's not solely because of the fans at all, though. It's because our club needs gutting from top to bottom. 

 

He's not helping himself however with a series of utterly bewildering decisions. Players may have let him down, we may have had some bad luck with injuries but it genuinely seems like he's losing the plot.

 

Playing an ageing full back out of position instead of the extremely capable left back he'd ostracised on the bench is indicative of where things are at.

 

They’ve let Rafa start a process of building his own team of players he trusts to play his system and methods, with Rodriguez shipped off sharpish and Digne seemingly following.

 

What good would it do to rip all of that up and start again with someone else? 

 

Unless Everton are in real danger of relegation, which I don’t think will happen, why not let him have this season and see what he builds?

 

Arteta is a good recent example of a manager being afforded time and the rewards coming through.

 

Otherwise you’ll stay stuck in this cycle of new managers bringing in new players and new systems and ending up with this complete mishmash.

 

Of course there will be some managers that don’t deserve said time (Bruce, for example) based on their entire career of failure. Rafa doesn’t have that.

 

Even OGS who I ridiculed for most of his tenure deserved some time to build something, although it was very clear he was never going to succeed. 

[1892er]

The Rafa / Everton thing never seemed a good fit from the get go.  Gut feeling tells me he'll be gone sooner rather than later.

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

They’ve let Rafa start a process of building his own team of players he trusts to play his system and methods, with Rodriguez shipped off sharpish and Digne seemingly following.

 

What good would it do to rip all of that up and start again with someone else? 

 

Unless Everton are in real danger of relegation, which I don’t think will happen, why not let him have this season and see what he builds?

 

Arteta is a good recent example of a manager being afforded time and the rewards coming through.

 

Otherwise you’ll stay stuck in this cycle of new managers bringing in new players and new systems and ending up with this complete mishmash.

 

Of course there will be some managers that don’t deserve said time (Bruce, for example) based on their entire career of failure. Rafa doesn’t have that.

 

Even OGS who I ridiculed for most of his tenure deserved some time to build something, although it was very clear he was never going to succeed. 

 

I'm happy to give him more time as his record deserves it and you're right that we badly need some stability. But he's seriously not helping himself at the moment. 5 points in 12 games is diabolical whatever way you cut it - I'm willing to accept a transitional season to implement his methods but that needs to improve ASAP because that is quite simply relegation form.

 

The one beacon of light is it sounds like he's getting a lot bigger hand in transfers.