Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Ste]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

Mental that Bruce always gets hired and Rafa is poison.

Being English, ex Man United, a perennial loser and having friends in the right places trumps being a *spit* filthy foreigner with their fancy pants tactics. 

[LV]

We would not have had this takeover without Rafa.

 

Fuck Bruce and whatever he said about keeping us ticking over. Rafa showed what this club could be with a bit of belief and full backing and PCP, Reubens and PIF saw that potential while Rafa was there. 
 

I don’t think it can be overstated how important Rafa’s part in this was. 

[1878]

3 hours ago, Yorkie said:

I just wish for his sake that he'd never taken it, really. Speaks volumes of the man that there doesn't appear to be a shred of bitterness despite the flak he got from the supporters there; says he enjoyed it and that it was just 'a shame.'

 

He's surely got another good job left in him and I really hope for his sake that he finds it. Who knows where; maybe some equivalent of us over in Spain or France. Who would that be?

 

No bitterness because he's doing a puff PR piece to throw his hat in the ring for the Leicester job! 

Doesn't mean he isn't lying through his teeth that he "couldn't change things inside" at Everton because he's a red.

 

He literally came in and won a power battle with the DOF and scrapped most of the medical, scouting and recruitment departments without any replacements lined up for the latter two. He was allowed to change far TOO much in a very short space of time. We had no senior recruitment staff for the January window and his medical people left us in the lurch when he got sacked.

 

Kevin Thelwell seems to have done a good job since the summer of cleaning up his mess, appointing new staff and putting some proper structures back in place.

 

Very easy for Rafa to blame his past on getting sacked, and not the run of 1 win in 14 or the way he conducts himself.

 

I don't see him getting any more Premier League opportunities, because his diminishing returns on the pitch mean he's not worth all the hassle he causes behind the scenes. He should either drop down a level or retire, but his ego would probably struggle with either option. 

[Abacus]

1 hour ago, 1878 said:

Very easy for Rafa to blame his past on getting sacked, and not the run of 1 win in 14 or the way he conducts himself.

 

Not able to comment on much of that, but I'd tend to agree with this bit. It's a bit of a Bruce excuse, when actually it was the job he did that got him fired there. 

 

As for the way he conducts himself part...I can only judge from his time here where he rarely put a foot wrong. But he is, no doubt, stubborn, picks fights and needs everything his own way. In our case, he needed to, as everything was rotten.

 

So, he did a good job here overall, but in my opinion is quite overrated on here for that. I wouldn't want him back now.

 

It also did come across like a blatant job interview. Don't go with these young new managers, go with an older one like you would with an open heart surgeon, they're the best...

[Deuce]

Completely forgot he was at Everton and it was this calendar year.

[HaydnNUFC]

1 hour ago, 1878 said:

 

No bitterness because he's doing a puff PR piece to throw his hat in the ring for the Leicester job! 

Doesn't mean he isn't lying through his teeth that he "couldn't change things inside" at Everton because he's a red.

 

He literally came in and won a power battle with the DOF and scrapped most of the medical, scouting and recruitment departments without any replacements lined up for the latter two. He was allowed to change far TOO much in a very short space of time. We had no senior recruitment staff for the January window and his medical people left us in the lurch when he got sacked.

 

Kevin Thelwell seems to have done a good job since the summer of cleaning up his mess, appointing new staff and putting some proper structures back in place.

 

Very easy for Rafa to blame his past on getting sacked, and not the run of 1 win in 14 or the way he conducts himself.

 

I don't see him getting any more Premier League opportunities, because his diminishing returns on the pitch mean he's not worth all the hassle he causes behind the scenes. He should either drop down a level or retire, but his ego would probably struggle with either option. 

 

Find it very hard to disagree with much of that, in spite of my personal admiration of him for what he did here.

 

Post more @1878 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[duo]

The man doesn't half talk sense mind...

 

 

[gbandit]

Would have loved to have seen him lead us for same games in Europe. Would have felt confident against a lot of opponents based on his tactical excellence. I prefer Eddie’s style of play though and know I’ll get more enjoyment out of the way we bully opposition long-term under Howe. Would love to see Rafa back in the game though

[UncleBingo]

3 hours ago, 1878 said:

 

No bitterness because he's doing a puff PR piece to throw his hat in the ring for the Leicester job! 

Doesn't mean he isn't lying through his teeth that he "couldn't change things inside" at Everton because he's a red.

 

He literally came in and won a power battle with the DOF and scrapped most of the medical, scouting and recruitment departments without any replacements lined up for the latter two. He was allowed to change far TOO much in a very short space of time. We had no senior recruitment staff for the January window and his medical people left us in the lurch when he got sacked.

 

Kevin Thelwell seems to have done a good job since the summer of cleaning up his mess, appointing new staff and putting some proper structures back in place.

 

Very easy for Rafa to blame his past on getting sacked, and not the run of 1 win in 14 or the way he conducts himself.

 

I don't see him getting any more Premier League opportunities, because his diminishing returns on the pitch mean he's not worth all the hassle he causes behind the scenes. He should either drop down a level or retire, but his ego would probably struggle with either option. 

From the outside looking in, and not to say he was without blame but he was on a hiding to nothing taking that job.

A lot of the damage was done there long before he turned up.

[LV]

I don’t care what happened at Everton, that was an aberration. Probably a lot to do with the club too. 
 

He’s been brilliant everywhere else. 

[CPL]

My sister, who works as an MD for O2, was given tickets to the Man City vs Dortmund game with her husband. 

 

Turns out she was directly next to him for the game. Super jealous when she showed me the pictures. She said he was very friendly and was scribbling notes during the game.  

 

Wish she'd asked me to go! 

 

 

[St. Maximin]

4 hours ago, Abacus said:

 

Not able to comment on much of that, but I'd tend to agree with this bit. It's a bit of a Bruce excuse, when actually it was the job he did that got him fired there. 

 

As for the way he conducts himself part...I can only judge from his time here where he rarely put a foot wrong. But he is, no doubt, stubborn, picks fights and needs everything his own way. In our case, he needed to, as everything was rotten.

 

So, he did a good job here overall, but in my opinion is quite overrated on here for that. I wouldn't want him back now.

 

It also did come across like a blatant job interview. Don't go with these young new managers, go with an older one like you would with an open heart surgeon, they're the best...

Agreeing with you here. I’m fact I’d say very good job overall - you can’t really knock his achievements, but neither was it a smooth ride any of the seasons and we had to make do with very frustrating performances that wouldn’t look out of place with some of our far less popular managers. 
 

I think it’s fair to say he did both a great job here and a terrible job at Everton. His style won’t be effective everywhere and he has to accept sticking with the same approach (on and off the field) won’t always work and he should accept the blame for that. Won’t be the first or last successful manager to get it wrong somewhere. However, I would say his track record from the last 15 years or so doesn’t shout world-class - the game has progressed and his limitations have become more apparent now. 
 

For not just his management but how he conducted himself and engaged with the fans, he can stay a legend here though and that’s what matters. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by St. Maximin

[St. Maximin]

Also bringing in the Liverpool connection into it is a Steve Bruce move. Come on Rafa, you’re better than that. 

[Ronaldo]

You could certainly argue the fans created a lot of negativity prior to and after his appointment. Hardly what the club needed overall.

The Liverpool connection was obviously a factor, so why shouldn’t he mention it?

[Conjo]

6 hours ago, 1878 said:

 

No bitterness because he's doing a puff PR piece to throw his hat in the ring for the Leicester job! 

Doesn't mean he isn't lying through his teeth that he "couldn't change things inside" at Everton because he's a red.

 

He literally came in and won a power battle with the DOF and scrapped most of the medical, scouting and recruitment departments without any replacements lined up for the latter two. He was allowed to change far TOO much in a very short space of time. We had no senior recruitment staff for the January window and his medical people left us in the lurch when he got sacked.

 

Kevin Thelwell seems to have done a good job since the summer of cleaning up his mess, appointing new staff and putting some proper structures back in place.

 

Very easy for Rafa to blame his past on getting sacked, and not the run of 1 win in 14 or the way he conducts himself.

 

I don't see him getting any more Premier League opportunities, because his diminishing returns on the pitch mean he's not worth all the hassle he causes behind the scenes. He should either drop down a level or retire, but his ego would probably struggle with either option. 

 

Mad cause Everton bad.

[HaydnNUFC]

35 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

You could certainly argue the fans created a lot of negativity prior to and after his appointment. Hardly what the club needed overall.

The Liverpool connection was obviously a factor, so why shouldn’t he mention it?

 

Evertonians knew it would've been a bad appointment and they were proven correct, similarly to how we were with Bruce. However it only got negative inside Goodison Park once the results started to turn and they went on a run of 1 win in 13 matches which included their heaviest home Merseyside derby defeat for years (which was part self inflicted given the way Benitez set up their midfield) and a home defeat where they conceded 5 to Watford who ended up going down on 23 points.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[Jaqen]

11 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Evertonians knew it would've been a bad appointment and they were proven correct, similarly to how we were with Bruce. However it only got negative inside Goodison Park once the results started to turn and they went on a run of 1 win in 13 matches which included their heaviest home Merseyside derby defeat for years (which was part self inflicted given the way Benitez set up their midfield) and a home defeat where they conceded 5 to Watford who ended up going down on 23 points.

 

 

 

 

His treatment of James and Digne didn't help either, like. Two of their better attacking players forced out isn't going to win the fans or dressing room over. 

[Happinesstan]

People complaining about individual performances is punditry level. He was a master at getting the best out of his squad over a season. He frustrated a lot of pundits by not doing what they all expected and they'd be questioning his decisions, year after year, in the first half of the season. Only for him to prove every one of them for the idiot they were, by the end of the season. Rinse and repeat.

[HaydnNUFC]

38 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

People complaining about individual performances is punditry level. He was a master at getting the best out of his squad over a season. He frustrated a lot of pundits by not doing what they all expected and they'd be questioning his decisions, year after year, in the first half of the season. Only for him to prove every one of them for the idiot they were, by the end of the season. Rinse and repeat.

 

He failed at Everton and was deservedly sacked. He succeeded here in more ones than one. Both can be true. 

 

He was brought in too late to save us from the drop but brought us back up as champions even after being fucked over in January '17. Then kept us up after being starved of major backing by condensing games down to being a game of mistakes due to the quality of player we had to use regularly, especially from August 2017-January 2019. It was laborious to watch at times and we suffered some utterly rank defeats and runs of results, especially at home. Although the 3-4-3 post January 2019 whilst still a counter attacking, low possession side played some canny stuff. Instilled a siege mentality amongst the fans against Ashley and did so brilliantly and the atmosphere it created brought Staveley to the table and made her want to pursue the club for 4 years before finally getting it, albeit 2 years after Benitez' departure. I'll always be grateful to him for that and recognise his part in that and all the other stuff.

 

But he didn't get the best out of Everton. Taking over a side that finished 10th on 59 points the previous season and could've finished in Europe on the final day, he went on a run of 1 win in 13 league matches including some honking home defeats in a derby and to Watford as well as going out of the League Cup to QPR. Ostracised and got rid of their most creative player the previous season in Rodriguez pretty much immediately after his appointment, fell out with Digne and sold him as a result and certain people who he got rid of inside of EFC such as scouts, directors and medical people have still yet to be replaced. Thousands of Everton fans will say he did a shit job and deservedly got the bullet. Given they know far more about the situation than any of us (cc @1878) I'm not going to even attempt to argue otherwise. Especially after speaking to Evertonians and doing a bit of research on why it went so badly wrong.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[Happinesstan]

9 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

He failed at Everton and was deservedly sacked. He succeeded here in more ones than one. Both can be true. 

 

He was brought in too late to save us from the drop but brought us back up as champions even after being fucked over in January '17. Then kept us up after being starved of major backing by condensing games down to being a game of mistakes due to the quality of player we had to use regularly, especially from August 2017-January 2019. It was laborious to watch at times and we suffered some utterly rank defeats and runs of results, especially at home. Although the 3-4-3 post January 2019 whilst still a counter attacking, low possession side played some canny stuff. Instilled a siege mentality amongst the fans against Ashley and did so brilliantly and the atmosphere it created brought Staveley to the table and made her want to pursue the club for 4 years before finally getting it, albeit 2 years after Benitez' departure. I'll always be grateful to him for that and recognise his part in that and all the other stuff.

 

But he didn't get the best out of Everton. Taking over a side that finished 10th on 59 points the previous season and could've finished in Europe on the final day, he went on a run of 1 win in 13 league matches including some honking home defeats in a derby and to Watford as well as going out of the League Cup to QPR. Ostracised and got rid of their most creative player the previous season in Rodriguez pretty much immediately after his appointment, fell out with Digne and sold him as a result and certain people who he got rid of inside of EFC such as scouts, directors and medical people have still yet to be replaced. Thousands of Everton fans will say he did a shit job and deservedly got the bullet. Given they know far more about the situation than any of us (cc @1878) I'm not going to even attempt to argue otherwise. Especially after speaking to Evertonians and doing a bit of research on why it went so badly wrong.

 

 

 

You're a history student about to do your masters. I expect better than this cherry picked nonsense.

 

He wasn't at Everton for the full season so his ability to get the best "OVER THE SEASON" was never possible.

He built his English reputation with his 6 years at Liverpoool where his early season team selections, performances and results, were constantly ridiculed by the pundits, but he always finished stronger than most, leaving the pundits looking like the mugs we know they are.

 

In your defence you likely didn't experience it for yourself being so damned young, and the embarrassment of bullshit that the pundits spouted, every August, September and October is not something you will encounter while researching his history.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Happinesstan

[Happinesstan]

There is also no way he stays here, beyond the relegation if our fans had treated him like the scum* at Everton.

 

*Not all Everton fans are scum.

[St. Maximin]

33 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

You're a history student about to do your masters. I expect better than this cherry picked nonsense.

 

He wasn't at Everton for the full season so his ability to get the best "OVER THE SEASON" was never possible.

He built his English reputation with his 6 years at Liverpoool where his early season team selections, performances and results, were constantly ridiculed by the pundits, but he always finished stronger than most, leaving the pundits looking like the mugs we know they are.

 

 

 

How is that cherry picked nonsense? I don’t get all the bias towards Rafa here - at times it’s like he’s beyond criticism. The fact he did really well here doesn’t mean criticism wasn’t warranted when he was here, let alone elsewhere, but either way it’s pretty clear from speaking to Everton fans that watched his team a lot more than us that he was a disaster. 
 

Just because things worked out over time here doesn’t mean they would have at Everton. He’d clearly been making mistakes and likely his decisions off the field were contributing to poor form that just got worse and worse until the point sacking seemed the only logical answer if they were to stay up. It’s not like his style was just taking a while to implement. 

[Happinesstan]

23 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

How is that cherry picked nonsense? I don’t get all the bias towards Rafa here - at times it’s like he’s beyond criticism. The fact he did really well here doesn’t mean criticism wasn’t warranted when he was here, let alone elsewhere, but either way it’s pretty clear from speaking to Everton fans that watched his team a lot more than us that he was a disaster. 
 

Just because things worked out over time here doesn’t mean they would have at Everton. He’d clearly been making mistakes and likely his decisions off the field were contributing to poor form that just got worse and worse until the point sacking seemed the only logical answer if they were to stay up. It’s not like his style was just taking a while to implement. 

The whole situation was a disaster, I don't disagree. But it was a predictable disaster. The reason he succeeded in implementing his methods, both here and at Liverpool, was because the fans, in the majority, got behind him and his teams. 

My point had nothing to do with Everton. I was talking about why sometimes our performances weren't exactly entertaining. He's said many a time that winning 3-0,4-0,5-0, doesn't gain you any extra points. What does gain you extra, but immeasurable points, is conserving energy in order to maintain consistent levels for the entirety of the season.

 

The response seemed to suggest that because he fucked up at Everton, those questioning the poor performances are right to say he might have been shite after all.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Happinesstan

[Nine]

1 hour ago, Happinesstan said:

There is also no way he stays here, beyond the relegation if our fans had treated him like the scum* at Everton.

 

*Not all Everton fans are scum.

I’ll agree with you here but again, that’s on Rafa. He was always going to be a poor run away from the fans turning on him there no matter how well he started,  it was a matter of time from the beginning. Just can’t understand why he thought it would work.

[Happinesstan]

He's far from beond criticism. He let players go, that should have stayed, and spent the money on Jacob Murphy. But complaining about getting promoted because sometimes we weren't playing the kind of football we wanted is just ridiculous. 

We secured the championship in the dying minutes of the season. If we scored four more goals in every one of our other victories that doesn't change.