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11 minutes ago, LV said:

It’s actually just given refs more scope to be corrupt or inept 

 

And taken any immediate, unbridled joy when scoring out of the game. 


It hasn’t given them any more scope, it’s just brought it out into the open a bit. Those shitty decisions today were absolutely typical and predictable. The one thing it has done I guess is add in other refs to help make the corrupt or inept decisions.

 

Allowing the underdog to do whatever they want at corners then taking the opportunity to give them a consolation was entirely consistent with how refs have operated for eons.

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If the refereeing standard isn’t up to using VAR then it needs binning. There’s absolutely no point having decisions take longer and still be wrong. It’s genuinely something that is damaging football. The refs clearly can’t implement it properly so hoy it in the fucking sea

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1 hour ago, leffe186 said:


It hasn’t given them any more scope, it’s just brought it out into the open a bit. Those shitty decisions today were absolutely typical and predictable. The one thing it has done I guess is add in other refs to help make the corrupt or inept decisions.

 

Allowing the underdog to do whatever they want at corners then taking the opportunity to give them a consolation was entirely consistent with how refs have operated for eons.


Yeah that’s what I meant by more scope. An extra forum for other refs to get involved in the fuckery. 

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The referee should have just not awarded the penalty. Got to show consistency. As for penalties for shirt tugs that was nothing compared to the Wolves shirt pull against us. Can you imagine if that today had affected the result - in the 10th minute of injury time.

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Both were penalties.

 

The problem with the Maguire rugby tackle was the timing… it was in the 3rd minute of the game and awarding a PK for that would have locked the referee into awarding more penalties for similar actions throughout the rest of the game. There was also enough player contact where the rugby tackle wasn’t the only thing that could have brought him down.
it came back to bite him with the definite shirt pull that he couldn’t ignore. 

Had Maguires rugby tackle been in the second half of the game it would have been given 

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5 minutes ago, Exiled in Texas said:

Both were penalties.

 

The problem with the Maguire rugby tackle was the timing… it was in the 3rd minute of the game and awarding a PK for that would have locked the referee into awarding more penalties for similar actions throughout the rest of the game. There was also enough player contact where the rugby tackle wasn’t the only thing that could have brought him down.
it came back to bite him with the definite shirt pull that he couldn’t ignore. 

Had Maguires rugby tackle been in the second half of the game it would have been given 

 

Actually disagree with most of that. I think the bear hug on Maguire was about as clear as you can get timing or not, he had him pinned and bundled to the ground. Simply blatant. The shirt tug by Stones goes on at just about every corner kick in every game, it was quite mild. A light tug should not lead to a player's legs collapsing beneath him. Blatant bullshit honestly. At the very least they're both penalties, if you're giving one you had to give the other. If you didn't give the first, this should not be given either. 

 

Your other point is really a point on referee and player psychology (which might be accurate but is misplaced) and I personally think if the Maguire foul is given (correctly), it sets a tone that you can't fucking bear hug and wrestle players to the ground. The ref says "this is a penalty and I won't stand for this type of fouling in the penalty area on corner kicks". Hey presto, the wrestling mostly stops, instead of continuing all game.

 

It's weak as piss officiating.

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Understand your thinking Lion. Don’t disagree with your thoughts on the two incidents.

 

But the Referee isn’t going to lock himself in to decisions that early. You say the players will change behavior but they won’t. So he is either inconsistent or awards a half dozen penalties and is thought to have “lost control” of the game.
 

That’s why referees give the benefit on yellow cards in first 10 minutes. 
You’d like to have the utopia of “a foul in the 1st minute is the same as a foul in the 70th”. Or a foul in the center circle is a foul in the box, but we know that there is a different level of assessment  at different times and different locations on the field.

 

I think The referee should have given the Maguire incident a Penalty esp with video review to back it up. But I understand why he didn’t 

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2 hours ago, Exiled in Texas said:

Understand your thinking Lion. Don’t disagree with your thoughts on the two incidents.

 

But the Referee isn’t going to lock himself in to decisions that early. You say the players will change behavior but they won’t. So he is either inconsistent or awards a half dozen penalties and is thought to have “lost control” of the game.
 

That’s why referees give the benefit on yellow cards in first 10 minutes. 
You’d like to have the utopia of “a foul in the 1st minute is the same as a foul in the 70th”. Or a foul in the center circle is a foul in the box, but we know that there is a different level of assessment  at different times and different locations on the field.

 

I think The referee should have given the Maguire incident a Penalty esp with video review to back it up. But I understand why he didn’t 

 

Fair points and while it may be a bit "utopian" to have consistency in refereeing across the entire 90 minutes and regardless of foul location, that's something that could be addressed before games even start. "Do this, this is the consequences, whether it's minute 1 or minute 90", then nobody can have any complaints. You never know, players might even listen. VAR is a whole other mess though. How did they fail to give the Maguire foul?

 

Seems to me that the usage of VAR for a tiny infraction in the 99th minute of a lost game, is a complete waste of everyone's time and not what it should be used for. Why analyze that foul? You can't tell me there weren't 50 others exactly the same or similar throughout the game.

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I used to think at least it was getting decisions right in the end but no longer think that it is still causing nonsense same as before and just detracting from the game. It needs to be ditched I think, or some way cut back, it should only be interrupting the game for absolutely glaringly wrong decisions, not interrupting for stuff so minor there is no way on earth it is visible to the naked eye. Anything where the VAR ref isn't sure immediately should jsut be left to what in cricket is umpires call. 

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22 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

it should only be interrupting the game for absolutely glaringly wrong decisions, not interrupting for stuff so minor there is no way on earth it is visible to the naked eye.

Think this is the key. It's been said before by others on here, but it feels like VAR looks for an excuse to rule a goal out, rather than the other way around, which just feels wrong.

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Referees by their very nature are generally fun vacuums as people so letting them decide every minute infringement with the benefit of technology is never going to end well.

 

Computer says no 

 

 

Edited by LV

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