ikri Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Can we clarify if LFC is Liverpool or Luton Town? I know which team is at their level these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Well Luton Town would be LTFC, so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 I’ve said before it would (and I would) take a relegation followed by a few years down there it it got rid of Ashley and I stand by it. However, they may have gone from the frying pan and into the fire with this particular new ownership, so not sure I’d trade places right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Not sure if you would trade places? Good grief, get a grip man! Make the most of this and stick the boot in whenever/wherever you can. I for one am loving the mackems squirming in the third division no matter who our owner is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Relegation just increases the prospect of some chancer like "The Don" buying you though. We might hit lucky and get someone like the Wolves lot, but I still think the best chance is if we're in the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Not with our owner, we could be relegated to the Northern League and he'd still want £400m for the club. His ego clearly won't let him sell under any circumstance unless he makes a hefty profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Not sure if you would trade places? Good grief, get a grip man! Make the most of this and stick the boot in whenever/wherever you can. I for one am loving the mackems squirming in the third division no matter who our owner is. The last two years have been pretty good in footballing terms (although let's not forget one was in the Championship), mainly thanks to Rafa and very much in spite of Ashley, but one would have to be pretty shortsighted to not see the bigger picture when it comes to NUFC. In the decade Ashley has been our owner we've regressed from being regularly qualifying for European football to being a yoyo club. It doesn't bear thinking about where we would be if Rafa hadn't seen us as an interesting project. I'm not glorifying where Sunderland are at this point in time, but they have a clean slate which they wouldn't have had if they were still clinging on in the bottom half of the Premier League and it probably took a double relegation for Short (who was out of his depth but had the right intentions as opposed to Ashley) to cut his losses. It's going to take something similar for Ashley to do the same I fear, and whilst he's here we will just continue to gradually drop down the football pyramid. Rafa will eventually leave unless he gets what he wants (highly unlikely under Ashley) and we will be back to square one. If given the choice I would swallow the bitter pill now and built afresh under new ownership who have the right intentions and the ability to let this club fulfil its potential, rather than continue to be driftwood for the benefit of one very rich individual. Relegation just increases the prospect of some chancer like "The Don" buying you though. We might hit lucky and get someone like the Wolves lot, but I still think the best chance is if we're in the Premier League. Let's wait and see how their new owners do before we laugh them off as chancers. As it stands they have an opportunity to steady the ship and by this time next year be a newly promoted Championship club with the finances in place to make a push for the Premier League again. They could fail spectacularly, and I would laugh my bollocks off if they do, but it's much to early to say either way. And besides that, as you implied we could just as easily get taken over by somebody with the right intentions and financial means to make it happen. As for our best chance of a change of ownership being in the Premier League I don't see why at all. We're just too valuable as a Sports Direct advertisement hoarding for Ashley to consider to pay at a price somebody else may see as reasonable. It's just not going to happen unless we end up in a similar situation to Short, who was prepared to cut his losses in the end to avoid further damage. Not with our owner, we could be relegated to the Northern League and he'd still want £400m for the club. His ego clearly won't let him sell under any circumstance unless he makes a hefty profit. I don't believe that for a second. There is a reason why we only ever invest significantly in the January window (and even then, not always) when we're in trouble or after we've dropped to the Championship; he's desperate to hang onto the exposure and TV money that comes to being in the PL. If we're bleeding money in the lower leagues without exposure for SD he'll want shot pretty sharpish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Not sure if you would trade places? Good grief, get a grip man! Make the most of this and stick the boot in whenever/wherever you can. I for one am loving the mackems squirming in the third division no matter who our owner is. The last two years have been pretty good in footballing terms (although let's not forget one was in the Championship), mainly thanks to Rafa and very much in spite of Ashley, but one would have to be pretty shortsighted to not see the bigger picture when it comes to NUFC. In the decade Ashley has been our owner we've regressed from being regularly qualifying for European football to being a yoyo club. It doesn't bear thinking about where we would be if Rafa hadn't seen us as an interesting project. I'm not glorifying where Sunderland are at this point in time, but they have a clean slate which they wouldn't have had if they were still clinging on in the bottom half of the Premier League and it probably took a double relegation for Short (who was out of his depth but had the right intentions as opposed to Ashley) to cut his losses. It's going to take something similar for Ashley to do the same I fear, and whilst he's here we will just continue to gradually drop down the football pyramid. Rafa will eventually leave unless he gets what he wants (highly unlikely under Ashley) and we will be back to square one. If given the choice I would swallow the bitter pill now and built afresh under new ownership who have the right intentions and the ability to let this club fulfil its potential, rather than continue to be driftwood for the benefit of one very rich individual. Relegation just increases the prospect of some chancer like "The Don" buying you though. We might hit lucky and get someone like the Wolves lot, but I still think the best chance is if we're in the Premier League. Let's wait and see how their new owners do before we laugh them off as chancers. As it stands they have an opportunity to steady the ship and by this time next year be a newly promoted Championship club with the finances in place to make a push for the Premier League again. They could fail spectacularly, and I would laugh my bollocks off if they do, but it's much to early to say either way. And besides that, as you implied we could just as easily get taken over by somebody with the right intentions and financial means to make it happen. As for our best chance of a change of ownership being in the Premier League I don't see why at all. We're just too valuable as a Sports Direct advertisement hoarding for Ashley to consider to pay at a price somebody else may see as reasonable. It's just not going to happen unless we end up in a similar situation to Short, who was prepared to cut his losses in the end to avoid further damage. Not with our owner, we could be relegated to the Northern League and he'd still want £400m for the club. His ego clearly won't let him sell under any circumstance unless he makes a hefty profit. I don't believe that for a second. There is a reason why we only ever invest significantly in the January window (and even then, not always) when we're in trouble or after we've dropped to the Championship; he's desperate to hang onto the exposure and TV money that comes to being in the PL. If we're bleeding money in the lower leagues without exposure for SD he'll want shot pretty sharpish. But what you are suggesting is that you want us to fail in order to progress. It is totally illogical thinking. I agree that Ashley is suffocating the club with his lack of ambition. I get that but wishing us to do a "sunderland" just can't be right. I actually think the dirty mackems will gain promotion to the Championship but they will be away from the Premier League for a very very long time, if they ever get back at all is questionable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Trade places? With a third division club who are now literally using a PR guru to spin everything? Nah. Fuck that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 What I want has absolutely no bearing on what will happen, so it's immaterial to the club's fortunes. I reacted to that tweet saying "(...) there'll be a few Newcastle fans looking at Sunderland's summer activities so far (owner gone, football man in, bad signings being released) thinking they'd take that situation to get rid of Ashley" and yes, I think I would take that situation if theoretically presented with the choice between a) Ashley being here for at least another decade continuing to do as he has done in the past decade or b) be in league one and shot of him, with an ambitious new owner in place and a clean slate in terms of finances, management structure and squad. I think there is every chance that within a few years you'd be much better of in scenario b) than in scenario a) and if it took some short term hardship to finally move forward then so be it. I love Rafa here as much as the next man, but deep down I suppose we all know it will end in tears and his NUFC project will never come to fruition because Ashley will never sanction the spending required to take us to the next level in terms of infrastructure and quality of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 What I want has absolutely no bearing on what will happen, so it's immaterial to the club's fortunes. I reacted to that tweet saying "(...) there'll be a few Newcastle fans looking at Sunderland's summer activities so far (owner gone, football man in, bad signings being released) thinking they'd take that situation to get rid of Ashley" and yes, I think I would take that situation if theoretically presented with the choice between a) Ashley being here for at least another decade continuing to do as he has done in the past decade or b) be in league one and shot of him, with an ambitious new owner in place and a clean slate in terms of finances, management structure and squad. I think there is every chance that within a few years you'd be much better of in scenario b) than in scenario a) and if it took some short term hardship to finally move forward then so be it. I love Rafa here as much as the next man, but deep down I suppose we all know it will end in tears and his NUFC project will never come to fruition because Ashley will never sanction the spending required to take us to the next level in terms of infrastructure and quality of players. Good post. Inclined to agree that we have a very definite hard ceiling for the club with Ashley at the helm, but I wouldn't trade places because: a) there is nothing of substance to suggest they've now got a materially better owner b) by being where we are, we're a more marketable asset for any future prospective owners who we would be happy with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 What I want has absolutely no bearing on what will happen, so it's immaterial to the club's fortunes. I reacted to that tweet saying "(...) there'll be a few Newcastle fans looking at Sunderland's summer activities so far (owner gone, football man in, bad signings being released) thinking they'd take that situation to get rid of Ashley" and yes, I think I would take that situation if theoretically presented with the choice between a) Ashley being here for at least another decade continuing to do as he has done in the past decade or b) be in league one and shot of him, with an ambitious new owner in place and a clean slate in terms of finances, management structure and squad. I think there is every chance that within a few years you'd be much better of in scenario b) than in scenario a) and if it took some short term hardship to finally move forward then so be it. I love Rafa here as much as the next man, but deep down I suppose we all know it will end in tears and his NUFC project will never come to fruition because Ashley will never sanction the spending required to take us to the next level in terms of infrastructure and quality of players. Good post. Inclined to agree that we have a very definite hard ceiling for the club with Ashley at the helm, but I wouldn't trade places because: a) there is nothing of substance to suggest they've now got a materially better owner b) by being where we are, we're a more marketable asset for any future prospective owners who we would be happy with Fair points, but my statement is based on the premise of a new owner, not specifically the one the mackems got. Having said that, any new owner carries a risk and it's far too early to proclaim theirs as a chancer who will leave the club worse off than he found it. They've also been incredibly lucky that Short was so desperate to get rid he wrote off most of their outstanding debt (on top of previously converting over 100m of it to equity) meaning they have a chance to rebuild from a favourable financial position. As for us being a more marketable (and valuable) asset for prospective buyers in the Premier League rather than outside of it, this is of course very true, but I don't believe a lack of interest of prospective buyers is or has ever been the problem. We've been for sale three times under Ashley, and each time there was at least one party very publicly interested, yet it never came to pass. It's my contention that the value we represent for Ashley in terms of free exposure for SD together with us being an appreciating asset over time means Ashley is not interested in selling (despite the club being officially for sale) unless he receives an offer well over the odds, i.e. one he is highly unlikely to ever get. In that sense, our best chance to ever be sold is if our value to him decreases, which unfortunately will probably take us thumbling down the leagues mackem style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Don't disagree with that accept to caveat that I think the sad reality is, for us to to compete for trophies on a regular basis, the new owner would have to be a proper Mr or Mrs Moneybags sort. It's just the way football is now. I don't see a Mr or Mrs Moneybags owner wanting a project from the Championship/League One. They would be the only ones who could and might pay Ashley his extortionate price. It's a long long long shot in a grim footballing world IMO. The other alternative being, we tumble down the leagues, Ashley finally sells, a decent owner with middling resources gets us back up, then sells to a Mr and Mrs Moneybags. A nice 10-15 year plan We're all kinda fucked I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Don't disagree with that accept to caveat that I think the sad reality is, for us to to compete for trophies on a regular basis, the new owner would have to be a proper Mr or Mrs Moneybags sort. It's just the way football is now. I don't see a Mr or Mrs Moneybags owner wanting a project from the Championship/League One. They would be the only ones who could and might pay Ashley his extortionate price. It's a long long long shot in a grim footballing world IMO. Aye, very true. The amount of investment required to actually challenge has increased beyond belief in the past decade and we are stuck in time unfortunately, losing ever more ground which will require insane investment levels to catch up on. The other alternative being, we tumble down the leagues, Ashley finally sells, a decent owner with middling resources gets us back up, then sells to a Mr and Mrs Moneybags. A nice 10-15 year plan I think this is Sunderland's new owners' plan probably. Try to get the club promoted with a squad of cheap, young and promising players and then sell it on for a profit (partly or entirely) to someone with the funds to make it worth their while and take it forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 O'Shea has joined Reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 O'Shea has joined Reading. They won't like that, mackems hate reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 O'Shea has joined Reading. They won't like that, mackems hate reading. No wonder they seem so uneducated on RTG. Oh, you were already taking the piss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Ndong going to Torino for £6.6m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Ndong going to Torino for £6.6m. Seriously that is excellent business for them, he's not worth half that, despite what they paid for him. Makes Colback look like a footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ElCid Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 It’s not excellent business the money will only be used to pay off the transfer fees they already owe to the original club. The only bonus they will get is saving the cost of wages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 It’s not excellent business the money will only be used to pay off the transfer fees they already owe to the original club. The only bonus they will get is saving the cost of wages. They are getting over the odds on a player they clearly don't want and couldn't afford to keep. Sometimes it makes financial sense just to walk away from a deal, taking a much smaller loss than you should. It's great business, he's not a player that will help them get out of Div 3 and they are getting a decent wedge for him and as you say cutting another big earner off their books. Honestly anything over 0 pounds for any of their top earners is great business for them now, once they get the wage bill under control, and make a dent in their transfer deficit they can start looking forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I must say that I’m completely shocked as to how this thread has turned out! https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/sunderland-and-newcastle-fans.1433509/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiedean Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Ndong going to Torino for £6.6m. Seriously that is excellent business for them, he's not worth half that, despite what they paid for him. Makes Colback look like a footballer. excellent business? oh yeah pay 13.6m for a player sell him for 6.6 18 months later that 6.6 won't even cover what they owe on him glad you're not my financial adviser Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Ndong going to Torino for £6.6m. Seriously that is excellent business for them, he's not worth half that, despite what they paid for him. Makes Colback look like a footballer. excellent business? oh yeah pay 13.6m for a player sell him for 6.6 18 months later that 6.6 won't even cover what they owe on him glad you're not my financial adviser If I sold one of my turds for £6.6m would that be excellent business? personally i think it would be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Ndong for £6.5M when they're in league 1 is good business tbh, I doubt they paid the whole £13.6m upfront too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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