Chris_R Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) I'm just attempting to differentiate (light heartedly, I admit) between a local derby and a rivalry. But there is a semantic difference. Quote rival rī′vəl noun One who attempts to equal or surpass another, or who pursues the same object as another; a competitor. One that equals or almost equals another in a particular respect. A companion or an associate in a particular duty. A rival is someone you're concerned about beating you or are concerned about overtaking you. We never play them. By the definition of the word, they're not our rivals. You can attempt to redefine that all you want but it's just not what the word means. They're our local derby, I'll always want to beat them, I'll always look out for their results, hell I'd actually like us to be in the same league as them as I miss the derbies, but there's no "rivalry" there right now because of their absence. I'll never think them "irrelevant" or stop caring about them, or as Dokko says forget our roots. All of that is important. Just by the definition of "rival", they're not one. Neither are Man U by the way. Our rivals right now are Norwich and people like that, this isn't even a comment about the takeover, I'd have said the same 2 weeks ago. The definition of "rival" precludes Sunderland. Edited October 12, 2021 by Chris_R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris_R said: Right now, people around the bottom 6 of the PL. give ower ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris_R said: I'm just attempting to differentiate (light heartedly, I admit) between a local derby and a rivalry. But there is a semantic difference. A rival is someone you're concerned about beating you or are concerned about overtaking you. We never play them. By the definition of the word, they're not our rivals. You can attempt to redefine that all you want but it's just not what the word means. They're our local derby, I'll always want to beat them, I'll always look out for their results, hell I'd actually like us to be in the same league as them as I miss the derbies, but there's no "rivalry" there right now because of their absence. I'll never think them "irrelevant" or stop caring about them, or as Dokko says forget our roots. All of that is important. Just by the definition of "rival", they're not one. Neither are Man U by the way. Our rivals right now are Norwich and people like that, this isn't even a comment about the takeover, I'd have said the same 2 weeks ago. The definition of "rival" precludes Sunderland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, GWN said: give ower ffs 1 minute ago, GWN said: It doesn't matter whether you like what I say or not, but you cannot arbitrarily redefine a word just because it doesn't fit how you want to use it. Sunderland are not rivals, by the definition of the word "rival". That's not an attempt to denigrate their importance to us, they're the club I most look out for and always will be, they're our local derby. I'm making a literary point - A rival, by definition, is someone in competition with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 I live and grew up in North Tyneside. For a very large part of my life I have been able to avoid coming across Sunderland fans. There are people in South Tyneside, Washington, and Durham who are in regular contact with Sunderland fans day in day out, might even have them in the same family. To them the rivalry will be more apparent. I don’t know how the rivalry manifests itself since they fell to League One, but I doubt it’s totally gone. Even if our takeover brings us constant success and they fail to ever get out of League one or into the Premier League, we will still be 15-20 years away from 50/50 areas of support becoming more dominant by us. The rivalry will still remain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Pilgrim Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Yeah I’m from the side of Durham that’s closer to Newcastle than Durham or Sunderland and at school it was about 60/40 us and them. Fucking hate them like. Never gonna pretend I am not loving the idea of eradicating mackem culture in my surrounding environs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, Chris_R said: It doesn't matter whether you like what I say or not, but you cannot arbitrarily redefine a word just because it doesn't fit how you want to use it. Sunderland are not rivals, by the definition of the word "rival". That's not an attempt to denigrate their importance to us, they're the club I most look out for and always will be, they're our local derby. I'm making a literary point - A rival, by definition, is someone in competition with you. not really arguing over a word definition mate . I grew up and will die with Sunderland being our RIVALS. , that’s all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 They’re obviously our rivals, they’re in competition with us as well. They’re just currently not doing as well as us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 The most accurate way to describe them is as "local competitors" but never (in my lifetime) genuine "rivals" at any stage. They could also be described as "local annoyances" because they constantly talk about us - as their rivals - and their talk usually implies that the feeling as mutual, which it is not. They are obsessed with us - fine - but it should be clear (and "made clear to them") that we are not even remotely obsessed with them. (this is the most I have ever thought and written about them, in a very long time). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Look, I get the point about the meaning of the word rival. It is just that historically, they have been a local rival. Let’s not actually forget they’ve bested us loads recently. Yes they’re nowhere near us now, and at various times in my life haven’t been near us (Keegan and Robson eras) but there have been times we have been in direct competition too. So yes, I would still say they are our rivals. If you did a poll of a 100 NUFC fans asking who our rivals were, the majority would say them, I doubt many would say Norwich, Burnley or whoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Boring now but still top of the board 887 pages and still twisting , gonna leave them to it as they aren’t our rivals , apparently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Brave Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Mag in peace https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/nufc-aug-oct-21-and-sportswashing-takeover-edition-all-nufc-stuff-in-here.1557357/page-899#post-34748727 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing Brave Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 900 pages 18,000 replies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 44 minutes ago, Dancing Brave said: 900 pages 18,000 replies But remember, they're not bothered! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 20 hours ago, alijmitchell said: Look, I get the point about the meaning of the word rival. It is just that historically, they have been a local rival. Let’s not actually forget they’ve bested us loads recently. Yes they’re nowhere near us now, and at various times in my life haven’t been near us (Keegan and Robson eras) but there have been times we have been in direct competition too. So yes, I would still say they are our rivals. If you did a poll of a 100 NUFC fans asking who our rivals were, the majority would say them, I doubt many would say Norwich, Burnley or whoever. I get that. Traditionally they were our rivals although I remember a 10 year spell from about 1993-2003 when hardly anyone up here really gave them a 2nd thought. Then our decline started and they became a but more relevant again. We've been separated by 2 leagues for quite a while now and by the time we play them again at least a Decade will have passed since our last meeting which is always going to dilute things. They're hardly a rival if you never play them! I'm certainly more interested in the results of teams like Leeds, Burnley, Watford, Southampton etc than Sunderland. I couldn't even tell you how they are doing this season. I'd guess they're in the top 2, but it would only be that, a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bintang Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 20 hours ago, manorpark said: The most accurate way to describe them is as "local competitors" but never (in my lifetime) genuine "rivals" at any stage. They could also be described as "local annoyances" because they constantly talk about us - as their rivals - and their talk usually implies that the feeling as mutual, which it is not. They are obsessed with us - fine - but it should be clear (and "made clear to them") that we are not even remotely obsessed with them. (this is the most I have ever thought and written about them, in a very long time). It was only a few years ago they were beating us twice a season every season. Our rivalry is one of the fiercest most passionate in the UK. Let's face it, during the Ashley years the derby was pretty much all there was to look forward to every season. I'm glad we are not like Boro who basically don't have any local rivals and have to try and piggyback the Tyne-Wear one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Always a massive game as far as I’m concerned. Absolutely been the case since my first attended derby game (the “Liam O’Brien over the wall”). 5under1and tag confirms this and as much as how pissed off I was as the 6 in a row unfolded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Forget semantics. They're a rival/derby/local pest. All I know is that I want them to get consecutive promotions to the PL to really get them buzzing their tits off while we build a team knocking on the door of Europe when they arrive, ready to avenge the 6 in a row. I don't care how far this club may go in the coming years but I know no matter how far that is, I'll always want to put one over them. And I'm not even a local. Fuck getting up for two derbies and the only moment of joy being a Shola penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbuton anna Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Absolutely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Daft to suggest they’re not our main rival. Regardless of what division they are in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 930am , top 3 threads ….The Mags Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkeye Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Local rivals 100% Does anyone think that Rangers and Celtic forgot about each other when Rangers were reset to the bottom of the lowest Scottish League? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sima said: Daft to suggest they’re not our main rival. Regardless of what division they are in. Mental tbh. No one else really within 100 miles. For all of our recent superiority we only have one more derby win than them I think. Edited October 13, 2021 by Rafalove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 The head to head record between the two sides is quite even and it will be great if we can play them again (albeit let it be in the cup while they are still rotting in league 1) They definitely are our rivals and until Amanda and Co take us up to where PSG and Barcelona are our european rivals and City and Liverpool in the league they will continue to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 30 minutes ago, Newcastle Fan said: The head to head record between the two sides is quite even and it will be great if we can play them again (albeit let it be in the cup while they are still rotting in league 1) They definitely are our rivals and until Amanda and Co take us up to where PSG and Barcelona are our european rivals and City and Liverpool in the league they will continue to be. 6 in a row marra fuck off is it level Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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