Sean Longstaff

[JEToon]

3 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Willock isn't really good enough either and I'm a fan. Tonali I think is an excellent player, the question is if he fits into our team, or the PL as a whole. I think if he leaves he finds a CL club, probably back in Italy. These are very broad generalisations but it's just about where we want to be at the end of the day and which players will ultimately be there. Longstaff might well have a place as a squad player, just don't see him starting in a top 4 side regularly.

He already has regularly started for a side who made the top 4
 

Where we want to eventually be will always be a side in need of squad players who serve different tactical functions. 

 

Man City have the likes of Nunes 

Liverpool Curtis Jones 

Villa have McGinn 

We played Chelsea last week featuring Dewsbury Hall. 
 

These are all good at what they do but by no means great players, they’d do well to regularly start for us to flip the argument slightly. 

 

Even sides who make the top 4 have players they don’t start often, they have squads. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by JEToon

[nufcjmc]

He's not always right but for those who are pro longstaff i guess this adds to the for or for those who think what the fuck covers what Eddie may see in him.

 

https://youtu.be/fjv8n_en77U?si=iE3Wv1SLpwhadKTN

 

The "love in" starts at 6m22s

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by nufcjmc

[STM]

14 minutes ago, nufcjmc said:

He's not always right but for those who are pro longstaff i guess this adds to the for or for those who think what the fuck covers what Eddie may see in him.

 

https://youtu.be/fjv8n_en77U?si=iE3Wv1SLpwhadKTN

 

The "love in" starts at 6m22s

 

 

 

 

Gets it spot on IMO. Basically Longstaff is very good at following instructions, very disciplined tactically and does dozens of small but important things during games that may not be picked up on.

 

When people say "what can he possible do that x player can't do?" perhaps it's this stuff? 

 

 

[LionOfGosforth]

Just now, STM said:

 

Gets it spot on IMO. Basically Longstaff is very good at following instructions, very disciplined tactically and does dozens of small but important things during games that may not be picked up on.

 

When people say "what can he possible do that x player can't do?" perhaps it's this stuff? 

 

 

 

Watched that earlier. Good stuff. Depends on how you feel about the player, this won't change the minds of those that dislike him but it definitely is the details that makes him important to this team and how he functions in it.

[SUPERTOON]

25 minutes ago, JEToon said:

He already has regularly started for a side who made the top 4
 

Where we want to eventually be will always be a side in need of squad players who serve different tactical functions. 

 

Man City have the likes of Nunes 

Liverpool Curtis Jones 

Villa have McGinn 

We played Chelsea last week featuring Dewsbury Hall. 
 

These are all good at what they do but by no means great players, they’d do well to regularly start for us to flip the argument slightly. 

 

Even sides who make the top 4 have players they don’t start often, they have squads. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nunes has been a flop at City though, Dewsbury Hall only plays the lesser games for Chelsea. 
 

McGinn is one of Villas most important players as well.

[STM]

Just now, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Watched that earlier. Good stuff. Depends on how you feel about the player, this won't change the minds of those that dislike him but it definitely is the details that makes him important to this team and how he functions in it.

 

Yep. It also doesn't have to be a point of contention. 

 

It's OK that he's only good at the boring, nitty gritty, shite sides of the game but also that's he's very good at those bits... whilst also saying that there's loads in his game that aren't good enough for a consistently top side.

[STM]

Darren Fletcher is a better example. 

 

Darren Fletcher was fairly average at everything he did but was often included in Man United sides that were surrounded in star quality. You'd have Rooney, Ronaldo, Scholes, Carrick and then Darren Fletcher. 

[JEToon]

2 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Nunes has been a flop at City though, Dewsbury Hall only plays the lesser games for Chelsea. 
 

McGinn is one of Villas most important players as well.

100% correct on the first two, that’s my point. The notion the top sides are simply stacked with absurdly talented players top to bottom who play every week isn’t entirely correct

 

I say this as someone Scottish, who’s followed most of McGinns career, he’s by no means a fantastic player, he’d very quickly have a lot of the same critique aimed Longstaffs way if he played for us, he’s nothing like a technically great player. He’s a grafter who will work harder than most on the park, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

[LionOfGosforth]

10 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Yep. It also doesn't have to be a point of contention. 

 

It's OK that he's only good at the boring, nitty gritty, shite sides of the game but also that's he's very good at those bits... whilst also saying that there's loads in his game that aren't good enough for a consistently top side.

 

I genuinely wonder if the analysis would be something Eddie would nod sagely at in private and smile coyly. It's incredibly intricate and smart tactically to have a midfielder make those sorts of movements at specific times of games in specific parts of the field to trick specific players and allow space for certain passing patterns. And there are plenty on here that say he's not tactically well-versed. Howay man

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by LionOfGosforth

[nufcjmc]

14 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Watched that earlier. Good stuff. Depends on how you feel about the player, this won't change the minds of those that dislike him but it definitely is the details that makes him important to this team and how he functions in it.

I am in the longstaff little minutes as possible and out of the pile of midfield players he would be the first to sell. 

 

I do appreciate though that howe doesn't do this to be controversial or piss supporters off and does see qualities in him  

 

The thing that makes it a circular argument is that right he's been here for the full 3 years of Eddie's tenure and therefore knows what he needs to do it still comes back to is he the only one that can? Could Miley given the time and repeated selection do all this and more or more importantly the 50+m tonali.

 

For me those against longstaff being a regular in the first 11 the main crux is that they don't believe he has a special unique skillset that can't be coached into others who have a higher skill level. 

 

I guess you may agree with that but in the short term believe he's making the immediate impact so deserves the reward of keeping his place. 

 

Hence why I believe it's a circular argument as its not like there is a definitive answer especially while longstaff and tonali this season alone both haven't made themselves undropable 

[LionOfGosforth]

9 minutes ago, nufcjmc said:

I am in the longstaff little minutes as possible and out of the pile of midfield players he would be the first to sell. 

 

I do appreciate though that howe doesn't do this to be controversial or piss supporters off and does see qualities in him  

 

The thing that makes it a circular argument is that right he's been here for the full 3 years of Eddie's tenure and therefore knows what he needs to do it still comes back to is he the only one that can? Could Miley given the time and repeated selection do all this and more or more importantly the 50+m tonali.

 

For me those against longstaff being a regular in the first 11 the main crux is that they don't believe he has a special unique skillset that can't be coached into others who have a higher skill level. 

 

I guess you may agree with that but in the short term believe he's making the immediate impact so deserves the reward of keeping his place. 

 

Hence why I believe it's a circular argument as its not like there is a definitive answer especially while longstaff and tonali this season alone both haven't made themselves undropable 

 

This may be true but i've yet to see us function any better under EH than we did in the 22/23 season when Longstaff played much of it. I see the arguments against him and they usually revolve around how he is on the ball. His skills and vision on the ball are basic. He doesn't shoot well, doesn't create very much. Off the ball, he clearly brings things that EH doesn't trust others to deliver (yet). Whether the critics of him will see those qualities and agree it justifies his inclusion, I tend to doubt.

[nufcjmc]

8 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

This may be true but i've yet to see us function any better under EH than we did in the 22/23 season when Longstaff played much of it. I see the arguments against him and they usually revolve around how he is on the ball. His skills and vision on the ball are basic. He doesn't shoot well, doesn't create very much. Off the ball, he clearly brings things that EH doesn't trust others to deliver (yet). Whether the critics of him will see those qualities and agree it justifies his inclusion, I tend to doubt.

Well again I am camp out so you know I instantly want to say that well yes he was vital to the team in his purple season similarly to miggy but as the team develops and evolves he is the easiest on the eye or at first glance to see as the weakest of the midfield players to go if you had to sell a midfield player now for whatever reason. 

 

I don't know the internal workings of the squad etc but seen as 1. They allowed his contract to run down and 2. Sandro was signed we clearly in my eyes looked to move on from him. 

 

Now again circular argument again it hasn't worked out that way, Eddie likes him and looks to offer a new contract and even if I love sandro with the ban and the way the squad has been functioning this season sandro hasn't made the place his automatically. Howe may argue he isn't looking for a basic stand in and wants true competition in each position but then puts you right back to the debate of well is Sean good enough to be that. 

[PopeandGlory]

He’s being kept around because he’s English/homegrown, cheap and can follow instructions, although with very limited execution most of the time.

 

I can just about cope with that. I wouldn’t object to him coming on for the last 10-15 minutes to see out a game or give players like Tonali a rest. 

 

Howe has just had a full season to work with Tonali. If people are suggesting he still can’t follow instructions as well as Longstaff, there is something terribly amiss with our star signing or coaching methods.

 

 

 

Edited 17 minutes ago by PopeandGlory