TRon Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, The Prophet said: I totally agree with you, but I wouldn't say our support appreciate Willock at all. There was absolutely loads getting stuck into him on a regular basis up until recently, despite him being largely very good this season. He was getting plenty of stick on here too, that's why it's been a pleasant surprise that he's getting some credit after Sunday. I think people are starting to look beyond his facial expressions and the goals he's not getting this time round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said: I've been watching Henderson and TAA play it speculatively into the channels for Salah for years now. Likewise VVD, Robertson and others. It doesn't really matter who does it, the point is that they play those speculative channel balls regularly. A weakness of Henderson's game - is that he's not the best on the ball. That's not a strength of his game. Why are you bringing it up? TAA does do speculative balls that is true. But he also records league high progressive passes. So there's massive upside. There's not that with Schar. VVD's pass completion is 90%. Matip 89% it goes on. Schar's completion rate is noticeably lower and he pulls off long passes at a low hit rate too. Botman isn't doing it anywhere near as much as Schar so i'm unsure how much of it is tactical. 1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said: I always cite the same stat for things like that, Messi had the lowest through ball success rate in La Liga for years. But he also has the most assists or right up there. So you have to look at other things. The same applies for Bruno Fernandes. He gives the ball away loads but also creates bucketloads and is up there with the leagues best for shot creation etc. TAA also gives it away a load but has league high stats in assists, progressive passing etc. That isn't the same with Schar. He gives it away a bucketload and there isn't a massive upside elsewhere. It's a relatively small criticism but it's entirely valid. I raised this same argument early doors about Sissoko. Peopl eventually hated him for it.... but he always did what he did people just refused to see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I don't ever see VVD or Matip play the same speculative balls though or try aggressive passing. It's long balls to people directly or simple passes to the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: A weakness of Henderson's game - is that he's not the best on the ball. That's not a strength of his game. Why are you bringing it up? I'm not? I'm bringing up his speculative balls into the channels, usually to Salah. And as I say, it's not limited to Henderson, TAA, VVD, Robertson all do it too they all just happen to be incredibly good at it. The point being that you were saying 'the top teams don't do that' and that it's 'big sam-esque' despite Liverpool doing it regularly for years now. 19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: But he also has the most assists or right up there. So you have to look at other things. The same applies for Bruno Fernandes. He gives the ball away loads but also creates bucketloads and is up there with the leagues best for shot creation etc. TAA also gives it away a load but has league high stats in assists, progressive passing etc. That isn't the same with Schar. He gives it away a bucketload and there isn't a massive upside elsewhere. Yes, the points you're making there are exactly why I bring up that stat about Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 29 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: I'm not? I'm bringing up his speculative balls into the channels, usually to Salah. And as I say, it's not limited to Henderson, TAA, VVD, Robertson all do it too they all just happen to be incredibly good at it. The point being that you were saying 'the top teams don't do that' and that it's 'big sam-esque' despite Liverpool doing it regularly for years now. Yes, the points you're making there are exactly why I bring up that stat about Messi. No top team does the chip pass not near any team mates to the extent Schar does it. Top teams do not tend to have CBs that complete that have 75% pass completion rates. None of Liverpool's CB's do. No top team has a player with such low pass % rate for his position that doesn't have significant upside to the passing elsewhere. Henderson's speculative balls are a feature of his game rather than a tactical idea from Klopp. Here's his speculagtive balls to Croatian players. It's not the mark of a top player. But he has other great attributes to his game. Even Bruno Fernandes.. he's not in that top bracket because other 10's can build possession (Odegaard for example) as well as create. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 39 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: I'm not? I'm bringing up his speculative balls into the channels, usually to Salah. And as I say, it's not limited to Henderson, TAA, VVD, Robertson all do it too they all just happen to be incredibly good at it. The point being that you were saying 'the top teams don't do that' and that it's 'big sam-esque' despite Liverpool doing it regularly for years now. Yes, the points you're making there are exactly why I bring up that stat about Messi. So where's the massive upside to the Schar ball straight to the opponent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Football has turned into such a nerds game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 No idea how you've extrapolated all of these irrelevant points from me simply pointing out that Liverpool do in fact play it long Which they do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Liverpool do not do what Schar is doing. No top ball-playing CB does what Schar is doing. And it's not a good thing. His actual defending has been superb and all things considered he's been better than Botman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) We are not a possession side so Schar’s amount of passes attempted per 90 are low vs other centre backs in the league (38th percentile). Despite that, look where he is for key passes, passes into penalty area, progressive passes, through balls and switches. I have no idea how you can say his passing isn’t progressive when it so obviously is in every metric and the eye test. Edited March 14, 2023 by Smal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Liverpool do not do what Schar is doing. No top ball-playing CB does what Schar is doing. And it's not a good thing. His actual defending has been superb and all things considered he's been better than Botman. I'm sorry, but yes they do like. 4:18 onwards 1:20 onwards Plenty of speculative channel balls here And here Edited March 14, 2023 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjb Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 .com reporting he's not in the upcoming Swiss squad, cited as injury. That's as worrying as losing Bruno or Isak. Botman is not the same without Schar alongside him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Burn at CB and Targett in surely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Menace said: Burn at CB and Targett in surely Or Lascelles at CB as it normally is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankpingel Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Well he's in yesterdays training pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, Menace said: Burn at CB and Targett in surely no way he'll play two left footed centre backs. It'll be Lascelles, and rightly so th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 I read it more as he is nursing the injury so can play but will take a break during the internationals to rest it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankpingel Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 minute ago, SUPERTOON said: I read it more as he is nursing the injury so can play but will take a break during the internationals to rest it. This is my take on it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 I like Schar a lot. Very good all round footballer (most of the time). However, I don't think he did anything last night that Lascelles couldn't have done (on recent form). He's going to need to be more circumspect with his long pass attempts in the future imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSelecta Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I noticed one of our goals came from a speculative ball forward from Schar exactly like the ones being debated on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 He does ping a good ball. Wonder if it's worth trying him on the wing? Could have Murphy on the right, Schar on the left pinging crosses in when we can't play through the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondedcrown Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 minute ago, TBG said: He does ping a good ball. Wonder if it's worth trying him on the wing? Could have Murphy on the right, Schar on the left pinging crosses in when we can't play through the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, TBG said: He does ping a good ball. Wonder if it's worth trying him on the wing? Could have Murphy on the right, Schar on the left pinging crosses in when we can't play through the middle. Don't be ridiculous, you want him as a withdrawn playmaker dictating tempo in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondedcrown Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Just now, The Prophet said: Don't be ridiculous, you want him as a withdrawn playmaker dictating tempo in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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