wormy Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Assuming we get sold and we have a dedication to challenging for Europe, then Steve Bruce is clearly not the right man to lead the club into this future. He’s done better so far than I’ve expected - keep it down to the strong core of the team, fortunate results and a bit of luck. Hopefully we pick up some more results and finish high as possible, get sold, he gets a thank you and is let go and we don’t have to speak too much about him again. That's quite literally it. A fair comment. Ideally our next appointment is a manager who's never had to rely on luck to win games of football. Ever. Yeah, that's exactly what people are saying. Many having a pop at Bruce for relying on luck for some results. Looks like luck is frowned upon. I dont mind how we win personally but each to their own. It's almost like we didn't fluke our way through a season that earned Alan Pardew an eight year contract that's only about to end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 There are a number of deficiencies in the playing squad notably the loss of Perez and Rondon, which meant we should have been expecting to be languishing right at the bottom. Yes on paper we could have lost many more games and overall over the course of the season I think he has generally made the right decisions given the poor hand he had. Obviously don’t want him here next season but he’s done the most important thing really, he gave the club an extra year to get the takeover done, and he got us into a position that made us look investable in March - something Rafa didn’t because we were always a bit to close to the bottom to attract serious buyers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Holden Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I mean, luck is frowned upon, you’re supposed to get results based on what you actually do. Is there a manager who hasnt relied on luck at some point to get results? If not then why hold it against Bruce? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 https://medium.com/@Zuishek/newcastle-uniteds-far-post-overload-gives-them-a-set-piece-edge-3a291a0ab090 You can have a look at our set piece approach here, its a pretty decent breakdown This is good. It's the one thing we've improved upon this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I mean, luck is frowned upon, you’re supposed to get results based on what you actually do. Is there a manager who hasnt relied on luck at some point to get results? If not then why hold it against Bruce? Over a season you make your own luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I mean, luck is frowned upon, you’re supposed to get results based on what you actually do. Is there a manager who hasnt relied on luck at some point to get results? If not then why hold it against Bruce? Luck runs out. If that's the only thing you have going for you when it does then you're fucked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Holden Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I mean, luck is frowned upon, you’re supposed to get results based on what you actually do. Is there a manager who hasnt relied on luck at some point to get results? If not then why hold it against Bruce? Luck runs out. If that's the only thing you have going for you when it does then you're fucked. So they say, but it's why he'll be gone at the end of the season when we have new owners anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Can't understand anyone who looks solely at a result and completely disregards how it was obtained. No context, no story, no background nothing. Just check the result after 90 mins and ignores everything else. It boils down to how much credit you give to Bruce for the good results, personally I think an awful lot of the good results are down to luck rather than the tactical acumen and guidance of Bruce. People will agree or disagree and that's fair enough. His results since he started managing would suggest he's not very good at his job though. I'll give him credit for squad morale though, they look a happy and committed bunch. He can have that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Assuming we get sold and we have a dedication to challenging for Europe, then Steve Bruce is clearly not the right man to lead the club into this future. He’s done better so far than I’ve expected - keep it down to the strong core of the team, fortunate results and a bit of luck. Hopefully we pick up some more results and finish high as possible, get sold, he gets a thank you and is let go and we don’t have to speak too much about him again. That's quite literally it. A fair comment. Ideally our next appointment is a manager who's never had to rely on luck to win games of football. Ever. Yeah, that's exactly what people are saying. Many having a pop at Bruce for relying on luck for some results. Looks like luck is frowned upon. I dont mind how we win personally but each to their own. Now this is where I differ. I've always preferred to enjoy watching football. Winning dirty (or luckily) every single time we win just isn't enjoyable, especially considering how shit we are when we draw or lose. Some of Rafa's football was exactly the same early on, and I remember being criticised on here for having a negative view on it (I do understand why he did it, before anyone goes back to that). But he found a formula which started to make us worth watching again. Maybe Bruce has found that too, I don't know, but there's nothing on his CV to suggest that we're suddenly going to become a really good team to watch under him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Holden Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Assuming we get sold and we have a dedication to challenging for Europe, then Steve Bruce is clearly not the right man to lead the club into this future. He’s done better so far than I’ve expected - keep it down to the strong core of the team, fortunate results and a bit of luck. Hopefully we pick up some more results and finish high as possible, get sold, he gets a thank you and is let go and we don’t have to speak too much about him again. That's quite literally it. A fair comment. Ideally our next appointment is a manager who's never had to rely on luck to win games of football. Ever. Yeah, that's exactly what people are saying. Many having a pop at Bruce for relying on luck for some results. Looks like luck is frowned upon. I dont mind how we win personally but each to their own. Now this is where I differ. I've always preferred to enjoy watching football. Winning dirty (or luckily) every single time we win just isn't enjoyable, especially considering how shit we are when we draw or lose. Some of Rafa's football was exactly the same early on, and I remember being criticised on here for having a negative view on it (I do understand why he did it, before anyone goes back to that). But he found a formula which started to make us worth watching again. Maybe Bruce has found that too, I don't know, but there's nothing on his CV to suggest that we're suddenly going to become a really good team to watch under him. We won't, because Bruce's crap. He'll be gone at the end of the season. I'm not arsed how we win, I don't give a crap about "xG" stats or anything alike. As long as we win, I don't care. I'm not going to lose sleep over how we had to rely on Dubravka to make X amount of saves in order for us to get a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 No, but the stats help you work out whether it's skill or luck. If you only judge things on results, you might not appreciate what's really going on. You can be bad and still win, but that might not be sustainable. well put - what was that period where we were picking results with our defenders scoring random goals as we were dicked off the pitch in most games? he doesn't "deserve credit" for that because winning games by having your defenders score all the goals isn't a tactical plan, it was f***ing luck 12 goals conceded in 15 home isn't purely down to luck man. f***ing hell :lol: not sure what point you think you're making, he stuck to rafa's system in order to keep games tight and as a result we couldn't score for s*** if you think steve bacon is the brains behind that defensive organisation and dubravka playing out of his skin you need help Might as well just had a f***ing crash test dummy in the dugout then? This f***ing board man. Well we can have a look at some stats can’t we? This great defensive record has Dubs with the highest number of saves in the league and also we have the 4th highest shots faced per game behind villa, Bournemouth and Norwich lol. Is that sustainable? Could you tell me what positions those three are in the league? 19thb in goals from open play Shots on target we are 17th 15th in shots per game Counter attack goals 19th 2nd in set piece goals (very sustainable to get all your goal from set plays And defenders) All these things are telling you where we really should be. Through balls per game 19th Short passes 19th Crosses 18th It’s all here if you want to check it: https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7811/Stages/17590/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020 Can you tell me the common numbers amongst those stats? They are bottom of the league numbers I'd be interested to see how this compares to last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 There are a number of deficiencies in the playing squad notably the loss of Perez and Rondon, which meant we should have been expecting to be languishing right at the bottom. Yes on paper we could have lost many more games and overall over the course of the season I think he has generally made the right decisions given the poor hand he had. Obviously don’t want him here next season but he’s done the most important thing really, he gave the club an extra year to get the takeover done, and he got us into a position that made us look investable in March - something Rafa didn’t because we were always a bit to close to the bottom to attract serious buyers. I think those ‘deficiencies’ could have been rectified early on if we’d stuck with Almiron on the left and ASM on the right either side of Joelinton. Not saying we’d have been great but you saw with the chances we were creating with a natural left footer left (and Almiron for the third goal), and right footer on the right that it was better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 No, but the stats help you work out whether it's skill or luck. If you only judge things on results, you might not appreciate what's really going on. You can be bad and still win, but that might not be sustainable. well put - what was that period where we were picking results with our defenders scoring random goals as we were dicked off the pitch in most games? he doesn't "deserve credit" for that because winning games by having your defenders score all the goals isn't a tactical plan, it was f***ing luck 12 goals conceded in 15 home isn't purely down to luck man. f***ing hell :lol: not sure what point you think you're making, he stuck to rafa's system in order to keep games tight and as a result we couldn't score for s*** if you think steve bacon is the brains behind that defensive organisation and dubravka playing out of his skin you need help Might as well just had a f***ing crash test dummy in the dugout then? This f***ing board man. Well we can have a look at some stats can’t we? This great defensive record has Dubs with the highest number of saves in the league and also we have the 4th highest shots faced per game behind villa, Bournemouth and Norwich lol. Is that sustainable? Could you tell me what positions those three are in the league? 19thb in goals from open play Shots on target we are 17th 15th in shots per game Counter attack goals 19th 2nd in set piece goals (very sustainable to get all your goal from set plays And defenders) All these things are telling you where we really should be. Through balls per game 19th Short passes 19th Crosses 18th It’s all here if you want to check it: https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7811/Stages/17590/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020 Can you tell me the common numbers amongst those stats? They are bottom of the league numbers I'd be interested to see how this compares to last season. Shots pg 13th On target pg 16th Shots conceded per game 12th highest 11th in goals from open play 17th for counter attack 16th set peices Crosses pg 6th through ball per game 12th short passes 18 As you can see we look about where you would expect us to on last season's stats. The Almiron signing transformed us last season. First half of the season wasn't great, second half we were the fifth best team in the land or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Assuming we get sold and we have a dedication to challenging for Europe, then Steve Bruce is clearly not the right man to lead the club into this future. He’s done better so far than I’ve expected - keep it down to the strong core of the team, fortunate results and a bit of luck. Hopefully we pick up some more results and finish high as possible, get sold, he gets a thank you and is let go and we don’t have to speak too much about him again. That's quite literally it. A fair comment. Ideally our next appointment is a manager who's never had to rely on luck to win games of football. Ever. Yeah, that's exactly what people are saying. Many having a pop at Bruce for relying on luck for some results. Looks like luck is frowned upon. I dont mind how we win personally but each to their own. Now this is where I differ. I've always preferred to enjoy watching football. Winning dirty (or luckily) every single time we win just isn't enjoyable, especially considering how shit we are when we draw or lose. Some of Rafa's football was exactly the same early on, and I remember being criticised on here for having a negative view on it (I do understand why he did it, before anyone goes back to that). But he found a formula which started to make us worth watching again. Maybe Bruce has found that too, I don't know, but there's nothing on his CV to suggest that we're suddenly going to become a really good team to watch under him. We won't, because Bruce's crap. He'll be gone at the end of the season. I'm not arsed how we win, I don't give a crap about "xG" stats or anything alike. As long as we win, I don't care. I'm not going to lose sleep over how we had to rely on Dubravka to make X amount of saves in order for us to get a result. As I stated, that's where we differ, and probably why we have different views on how Bruce has done this season. I can accept that you're a "win above all" type guy though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 There are a number of deficiencies in the playing squad notably the loss of Perez and Rondon, which meant we should have been expecting to be languishing right at the bottom. Yes on paper we could have lost many more games and overall over the course of the season I think he has generally made the right decisions given the poor hand he had. Obviously don’t want him here next season but he’s done the most important thing really, he gave the club an extra year to get the takeover done, and he got us into a position that made us look investable in March - something Rafa didn’t because we were always a bit to close to the bottom to attract serious buyers. I think those ‘deficiencies’ could have been rectified early on if we’d stuck with Almiron on the left and ASM on the right either side of Joelinton. Not saying we’d have been great but you saw with the chances we were creating with a natural left footer left (and Almiron for the third goal), and right footer on the right that it was better. how long it took him to move almiron off the right told me all i need to know about the guy tbph, either absolutely fucking clueless or, well i don't know the other option is it was so bad iirc almiron scored his first goal of the season at home when he was moved from the right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 He inherited a superbly drilled and organised back third of the pitch if you're saying he's not gotten incredibly lucky that he did then you're blinded by your argument. Therefore, Rafa had a hand in our survival this year. Sorry but it's true. Do we thank Benitez for being a game away from Wembley in the FA Cup too? True. Bruce really deserves credit for beating Rochdale after needing a replay, then Oxford in extra time after needing a replay and being outplayed for most of the game, then a Championship side. I'll give him that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I mean, luck is frowned upon, you’re supposed to get results based on what you actually do. Is there a manager who hasnt relied on luck at some point to get results? If not then why hold it against Bruce? Over a season you make your own luck Over a career your record speaks for itself. Bruce's is fairly shit, and he's been sacked from every other top flight job he's had, usually because his teams get progressively worse the longer he stays. That is why all those defending him won't actually say we should keep him on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 He inherited a superbly drilled and organised back third of the pitch if you're saying he's not gotten incredibly lucky that he did then you're blinded by your argument. Therefore, Rafa had a hand in our survival this year. Sorry but it's true. Do we thank Benitez for being a game away from Wembley in the FA Cup too? True. Bruce really deserves credit for beating Rochdale after needing a replay, then Oxford in extra time after needing a replay and being outplayed for most of the game, then a Championship side. I'll give him that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 He inherited a superbly drilled and organised back third of the pitch if you're saying he's not gotten incredibly lucky that he did then you're blinded by your argument. Therefore, Rafa had a hand in our survival this year. Sorry but it's true. Do we thank Benitez for being a game away from Wembley in the FA Cup too? True. Bruce really deserves credit for beating Rochdale after needing a replay, then Oxford in extra time after needing a replay and being outplayed for most of the game, then a Championship side. I'll give him that. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 No, but the stats help you work out whether it's skill or luck. If you only judge things on results, you might not appreciate what's really going on. You can be bad and still win, but that might not be sustainable. well put - what was that period where we were picking results with our defenders scoring random goals as we were dicked off the pitch in most games? he doesn't "deserve credit" for that because winning games by having your defenders score all the goals isn't a tactical plan, it was f***ing luck 12 goals conceded in 15 home isn't purely down to luck man. f***ing hell :lol: not sure what point you think you're making, he stuck to rafa's system in order to keep games tight and as a result we couldn't score for s*** if you think steve bacon is the brains behind that defensive organisation and dubravka playing out of his skin you need help Might as well just had a f***ing crash test dummy in the dugout then? This f***ing board man. Well we can have a look at some stats can’t we? This great defensive record has Dubs with the highest number of saves in the league and also we have the 4th highest shots faced per game behind villa, Bournemouth and Norwich lol. Is that sustainable? Could you tell me what positions those three are in the league? 19thb in goals from open play Shots on target we are 17th 15th in shots per game Counter attack goals 19th 2nd in set piece goals (very sustainable to get all your goal from set plays And defenders) All these things are telling you where we really should be. Through balls per game 19th Short passes 19th Crosses 18th It’s all here if you want to check it: https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/7811/Stages/17590/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020 Can you tell me the common numbers amongst those stats? They are bottom of the league numbers I'd be interested to see how this compares to last season. Shots pg 13th On target pg 16th Shots conceded per game 12th highest 11th in goals from open play 17th for counter attack 16th set peices Crosses pg 6th through ball per game 12th short passes 18 As you can see we look about where you would expect us to on last season's stats. The Almiron signing transformed us last season. First half of the season wasn't great, second half we were the fifth best team in the land or something. Yeah and we didn't have ASM. He started the season with Ayoze – a player he more or less made himself – and Rondon on fucking loan. Bruce was given ASM for £17m, Joelinton for £40m and already had Almiron at £21m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Bruce was given ASM for £17m, Joelinton for £40m and already had Almiron at £21m. yeah and couldn't get any of them close to scoring a goal fucking rotten manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 It's actually a dilemma for me at the moment, I want us to win games, but at the same time, if we win two or three more, you are going to get a growing clamour for Bruce to carry on next season, and with him being a "local lad" ( but a fucking manc really) it will make it harder to bin him off. A good end to this season could wreck our prospects for the next one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 It's actually a dilemma for me at the moment, I want us to win games, but at the same time, if we win two or three more, you are going to get a growing clamour for Bruce to carry on next season, and with him being a "local lad" ( but a fucking manc really) it will make it harder to bin him off. A good end to this season could wreck our prospects for the next one. i'll be gutted if he's kept on next season should there be a takeover, absolutely fucking gutted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I think if Benitez had ASM, Rondon, and Almiron for a full season he’d have them top 8 easy. For 2/3 of last season he was relying on Atsu, Joselu and an awful Kenedy. Almiron and ASM are a huge upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butcher Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 June 30. Rafa leaves and joins some Chinese club a week later (not for the money ofc ) Rondon and Perez leaves - just the 23 goals between them in the league last season. July 17. Bruce appointed. August 11. First PL game vs Arsenal, less than a month after he got appointed and had a very short pre-season to prepare. Bruce came in when the club were in turmoil. We were among the favourites to go down. To be safe with 8 to go and to still be in the Cup is a very good achievement regardless of the f***ing stats or how badly we've played. You can stick your unsustainable up your arse. Leicester won the league by playing unsustainable football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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