Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[TheGuv]

41 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

Okay, I'll pick my words carefully because I do seem to have a knack of upsetting people over this issue.

 

Like other posters, I was a bit concerned about the recent injury and illness absences, and the trip to Monaco. There was a somewhat last minute air about them, and not much clear detail. 

 

I think Oregon Geordie had a good point about him wanting to be the star, whereas the whole direction since Howe has come in has been about teamwork. We're also moving towards a more passing style of game, rather than relying on his ability to beat opponents, and pressing high rather than deep defence. He needs to adjust, on a personal level as well as footballing, and I'm not sure he's doing it. Beforehand, it felt like, despite his individualistic style of play, we were better off with him than without him. Now it's not so clear.

 

He was very disappointed, in a public manner, when Bruce went. A new man has come in and has largely taken over his status as hero. I wonder how well he's dealing with that.  

 

Of course this is speculation. I may be reading too much into things, or he may adjust to the new situation. If anyone looks at the same picture and says there isn't a problem, then that's fine, but that feels like speculation too.

I have to agree with this.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s sold in the summer or is replaced in the starting XI regularly from next season. Once we’ve stayed up, I don’t think he’ll fit into the style of play Howe wants to play. 
 

I’m ALL for attacking flair, we all are. But I must say, I was pretty frustrated when he came on in the 69th minute and was half jogging to press down Chelsea players within 5 minutes of being on the pitch, whilst players like Longstaff were pressing from the very first minute. It doesn’t sit right with me.

[SUPERTOON]

12 minutes ago, neesy111 said:

 

Everton away last season?

Burnley away as well I think he came on ?

[The Prophet]

46 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

Okay, I'll pick my words carefully because I do seem to have a knack of upsetting people over this issue.

 

Like other posters, I was a bit concerned about the recent injury and illness absences, and the trip to Monaco. There was a somewhat last minute air about them, and not much clear detail. 

 

I think Oregon Geordie had a good point about him wanting to be the star, whereas the whole direction since Howe has come in has been about teamwork. We're also moving towards a more passing style of game, rather than relying on his ability to beat opponents, and pressing high rather than deep defence. He needs to adjust, on a personal level as well as footballing, and I'm not sure he's doing it. Beforehand, it felt like, despite his individualistic style of play, we were better off with him than without him. Now it's not so clear.

 

He was very disappointed, in a public manner, when Bruce went. A new man has come in and has largely taken over his status as hero. I wonder how well he's dealing with that.  

 

Of course this is speculation. I may be reading too much into things, or he may adjust to the new situation. If anyone looks at the same picture and says there isn't a problem, then that's fine, but that feels like speculation too.

 

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. What I would say is that he has a spell like this every season, where he picks up nagging injuries and the commentary surrounding it is always quite similar.

 

Everton was one of his best games for us and the following game he picked up his injury, I just don't think he's up to speed.

[buzza]

I think all of the above state what is clearly obvious to us all; he does not put in the hard yards when opposition has the ball (pressing, covering and tracking runners).

Yes, he has a bit more license than others only because he is capable of pulling results out of a hat due to his magic moments.

Against lesser opponents who do not pose such a threat, we can more or less carry his lack of defensive duties and depend upon his attacking attributes to help get us the win, but against top ten teams such as chelsea we all see how it makes a difference when an opposing full back can adavnce and pick his passes. Eddie must be seething when he sees a display like yesterday, he was only on for 30 minutes, so in my book he should have run harder than the rest of the team on the pitch...

 

I also think he could well be sold in the summer if a large offer came in. I am also quite suspect of the last week or two´s "illnesses & injuries".

 

I absolutely love the bloke and he has saved our skin a few times this season, but I also hate him at times when his attitude stinks. I should take the positives and be thankful for those crazy moments he gives us... but there is always the little bit of conscience that asks "imagine if he tracked back aswell? what a player he could be!"

[joeyt]

14 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Burnley away as well I think he came on ?

Oh aye, he was brilliant in that game

[Cf]

5 minutes ago, buzza said:

I think all of the above state what is clearly obvious to us all; he does not put in the hard yards when opposition has the ball (pressing, covering and tracking runners).

Yes, he has a bit more license than others only because he is capable of pulling results out of a hat due to his magic moments.

Against lesser opponents who do not pose such a threat, we can more or less carry his lack of defensive duties and depend upon his attacking attributes to help get us the win, but against top ten teams such as chelsea we all see how it makes a difference when an opposing full back can adavnce and pick his passes. Eddie must be seething when he sees a display like yesterday, he was only on for 30 minutes, so in my book he should have run harder than the rest of the team on the pitch...

 

I also think he could well be sold in the summer if a large offer came in. I am also quite suspect of the last week or two´s "illnesses & injuries".

 

I absolutely love the bloke and he has saved our skin a few times this season, but I also hate him at times when his attitude stinks. I should take the positives and be thankful for those crazy moments he gives us... but there is always the little bit of conscience that asks "imagine if he tracked back aswell? what a player he could be!"

 

Exactly. The frustration is we can all see the player he can be. But he needs to be more.

 

When you're in a relegation fight and Bruce has the entire team underperforming then a player like ASM is what can help you out of it because his quality is like night and day with the rest of the squad. You need his moments of magic because lord knows you're not going to create anything else.

 

But that's not the case anymore. The rest of the team is now putting in a much better shift. Having his moments of magic is still a massive help of course - especially with our injuries we could do with the creative flair. But unlike before the team has a shape and identity. He needs to fit inside that. We looked noticeably worse yesterday when he came on in that sense. When he did get the ball he regularly just ran himself into trouble.

 

There's nothing here that can't be fixed. But there's a reason he's playing for us and not one of the "big sides" in the first place. And if these parts of his game don't get fixed then we should be looking to upgrade ourselves. You can't have 10 players executing a game plan and one just doing his own thing. Get this stuff sorted out and we have a world class player. As it stands we just have a very very talented player and the two things aren't the same.

[KaKa]

40 minutes ago, TheGuv said:

I have to agree with this.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s sold in the summer or is replaced in the starting XI regularly from next season. Once we’ve stayed up, I don’t think he’ll fit into the style of play Howe wants to play. 
 

I’m ALL for attacking flair, we all are. But I must say, I was pretty frustrated when he came on in the 69th minute and was half jogging to press down Chelsea players within 5 minutes of being on the pitch, whilst players like Longstaff were pressing from the very first minute. It doesn’t sit right with me.

 

If we stay up we're going to be in a position where we can bring in flair players that also have the work rate required for a high pressing game. These players do exist, Liverpool currently have four of them in Salah, Mane, Diaz and Jota.

 

My gut instinct is that ASM won't be here long term. I think he prefers and is more suited to a defensive setup that sits deep in a block, and doesn't require him to press, and allows him to pick up the ball and run with it on the counter when there is a turnover in possession.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by KaKa

[Lush Vlad]

They did seem to put 3 players on him when he came on. If he managed to shift the ball quicker, we might have taken advantage of the space left by Kante and Ziyech and Chalobah, I think it was, being so drawn to him. Also, as a team, I’ve always thought we could do a bit better to take advantage of teams focusing so much on ASM. 
 

He is never going to graft like a lot of the players. But there was less effort than usual from him, I thought. He has pressed well at times under Howe. Man U and Everton spring to mind. 
 

All that said. He has been injured and ill. So I’m guessing he wasn’t 100%. 

[Superior Acuña]

Don’t want to blow it out of proportion but it was pretty poor form yesterday how the whole squad minus him came over to the fans together, him chatting to Lukaku and someone else, then never came to fans on his own. It stood out.

[Mahoneys Tache]

Sticking by my new Ketsbaia opinion previously posted. A bit more Ben Arfa in his execution at times but he promises much and doesn’t live up to the hype. In a couple of seasons he’ll either have been pedalled or he’ll be a squad player. 

[marki]

4 hours ago, Mahoneys Tache said:

Sticking by my new Ketsbaia opinion previously posted. A bit more Ben Arfa in his execution at times but he promises much and doesn’t live up to the hype. In a couple of seasons he’ll either have been pedalled or he’ll be a squad player. 

He,s just getting his sharpness back you will probly love him again in a week or 2

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by marki

[mighty__mag]

Ah, we're back to this talk again. 

 

Fucking bores me.

 

He's fucking brilliant, stop being wankers. 

 

 

[Emotic]

When was the last time we had a good, old-fashioned "body language watch"? I remember Luque back on the old forum. 

[Oregon_Geordie]

Let's hope he's back on form Thursday and he plays like he did at Home to Everton. I think we all want him to succeed. Maybe more than he wants it or can be arsed.

Fingers crossed. He's an amazing talent when he's on song!

[Mattoon]

I see half of twitter have turned on him, including Culkin, the guy is an absolute game changer and can tear apart the best defenses in the league but let's moan that he doesn't track back? I think I'd prefer him on the shoulder of the last defender waiting to counter tbh.

[buzza]

11 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

I see half of twitter have turned on him, including Culkin, the guy is an absolute game changer and can tear apart the best defenses in the league but let's moan that he doesn't track back? I think I'd prefer him on the shoulder of the last defender waiting to counter tbh.

I hope we don´t bring him down, he seems quite emotional! I agree that just his presence keeps a couple of defenders occupied and further back i.e. not bring the ball forward.

But it does get annoyin when he is just strolling around instead of at least half running...

[ponsaelius]

We've had a couple of wins and now half our support would rather have Jacob Murphy in the side and want him peddled. It honestly boggles the mind how few see the bigger picture beyond the short termism of good runs of form from team/individuals.

[NE27]

I agree nufc (especially twitter) can be hypercritical with these things, but we shouldn't be afraid to call a bad cameo a bad cameo.

 

His introduction at Chelsea definitely wasn't great and not up to maxis standards, you'd hope even he'd agree there. We needed him to do the dirty work in that game like the rest of the team had being doing and it felt like he was on a different wavelength.

 

All I know is I'd rather ASM played for us, than against us!

[The Prophet]

If it wasn't for Willock, ASM and Wilson, we'd be in the Championship.

[Mattoon]

18 minutes ago, NE27 said:

I agree nufc (especially twitter) can be hypercritical with these things, but we shouldn't be afraid to call a bad cameo a bad cameo.

 

His introduction at Chelsea definitely wasn't great and not up to maxis standards, you'd hope even he'd agree there. We needed him to do the dirty work in that game like the rest of the team had being doing and it felt like he was on a different wavelength.

 

All I know is I'd rather ASM played for us, than against us!

 

Absolutely agree 100% he was substandard against Chelsea, but that doesn't mean all of a sudden he's public enemy number 1, some of our supporters have the memory of a goldfish. Who's to say Howe hasn't told him to stay forward? Either way he's more than earned the benefit of the doubt.

[loki679]

With a player like ASM or HBA or Ginola or Robert it's all about the ratios.  If they're only turning it on once every 10 games then no matter how good they are you're better off without them. 

 

ASM is kind of on the edge of that ratio right now so it's understandable that people get frustrated with him.  A good run of games and a bit of decent coaching on when to release the ball and when to hold it and he'll be magic and all this will be forgotten.

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

This is Laurent Robert syndrome again. Are we the only fan base who regularly does this? 

 

You take the rough with the smooth with players like ASM, HBA, Robert and Ginola. You take the risk of them 'looking lazy' because of their individual brilliance they can conjure or they can terrify the opposition when they're on it. Newcastle fans seem to have this quasi fantasy of a player who has ASM, Robert et al's ability but constantly sprint back and forth and do defensive work, have 110% work rate et cetera. Weird.

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, ManDoon said:

Basically doesn’t exist unless they play for Simeone. But in general you won’t ever get that combination. Salah I guess does do it, but not to that degree 

 

Aye. The sentiment seems to have been in our fanbase for years. Reminds of some outrageous Pardew (iirc) quote on HBA after scoring a ridiculous goal, paraphrasing a bit but "he can do that every week, if he doesn't track back he doesn't get in my team". A lot of the yer das in our fanbase still have that view of players like ASM. Was probably the same in the 90s with Ginola and early 00s with Robert. Was with HBA too.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, ponsaelius said:

We've had a couple of wins and now half our support would rather have Jacob Murphy in the side and want him peddled. It honestly boggles the mind how few see the bigger picture beyond the short termism of good runs of form from team/individuals.

 

Hmmm...wonder what they saw in Murphy's performances that made them think, yeah he'll do for me.

 

Don't get me wrong, he puts a shift in, but he was mostly bad against Chelsea.

[The Prophet]

I'd start him. They'll be shitting their pants if they see him on the team sheet after the fixture at SJP.