Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Conjo]

 

Pretty much sums him up

[Kid Icarus]

17 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Games are won and lost in midfield imho. I've always believed that and still maintain it nowadays despite all of the wider discussion around systems/styles/Klopp/Pep etc etc. Ultimately a team with an effective midfield wins more games than one without. Almost regardless of what's behind it or in front of it.

 

He's been a key component in two midfields that have been relegated. Contrary to some inferences on here, he's not and never was highly thought of at Spurs and I can't imagine Watford fans are too keen to see him grace their midfield next season.

 

I can't talk for his international reputation because I've not followed it particularly closely.

 

I can say having watched him closely for NUFC that he called it in on many occasions and was probably why he was very widely booed on his return to SJP.

 

He was also publically criticised by Poch after his first 18 months at Spurs I believe so he's not pulled up any tree's anywhere (except internationally, arguably) despite the defence of him on here.

 

I'd rate his time at NUFC as 3/10 and think he's a bit of an advert for the NUFC we were at the time.

 

I don't really see the value in comparing him to GW tbh but I know which one I'd take back at the club if forced.

 

 

If that's how you see it, fair enough.

 

I thought he was really good at Spurs after getting beyond being ridiculed when he first got there, especially in the Champions League. 

 

Re the bit in bold, anecdotal but my boss is a Watford fan (was on a recent behind enemy lines sort of thing on True Faith I think) and we've spoken about him before - he rates him for where they are and puts the blame squarely at them not being able to defend/their owners' hiring and firing model.

 

We boo literally every ex-player, including James Milner. I agree that the perception of him here is bad though, that's what we're disagreeing about really. 

 

The reason he was compared to GW was because the accusation of him was that he hid when we were relegated. GW was invisible away from home, wasn't getting on the ball towards the end of the season and was dropped. Digging out Sissoko for hiding is based on very little anyway imo, but seems especially weird considering how guilty of that Wijnaldum was. Wijnaldum was and is obviously the better player, but in terms of graft and heart, Sissoko beats him hands down during their time here. 

[leffe186]

49 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Can only really talk about him based on his time here as I didn’t watch him closely at Spurs. The few times I did see him for Spurs, he seemed one of their weaker players. Maybe @leffe186 can let us know what the consensus of opinion from Spurs fans was on Sissoko there 

IIRC at first everyone was very unimpressed because he’s not great on the ball. He was something of a pariah tbh. Eventually people came round to him somewhat just because he always tried and occasionally bludgeoned an opponent into submission but even those who liked him accepted he was overpriced and limited. Useful squad player. 
 

Had a quick look - some relatively recent quotes:

 

Was such a Sissoko gonna miss kind of chance too. You or me could've put it away, but dear old Moussa had different plans and, true to form he found the upper tier of the stand. Long live the enigma that is Moussa Sissoko.

 

I’m finding thinking the same with Emerson as with Sissoko in his passing game. Just give it to the closest person and I’m happy.

 

Watching Bentancur and Hojbjerg constantly call for the ball is a joy and a complete contrast to years of Winks and Sissoko hiding behind midfielders

 

Sissoko had his limitations as a footballer but you could never ever question his efforts or professionalism.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

No idea why he still generates debate, it’s kind of weird. He was an average player who was here ages ago, forget about it. 

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

No idea why he still generates debate, it’s kind of weird. He was an average player who was here ages ago, forget about it. 

 

I think it lines up with how certain sections of our support have form with criticising players like ASM, Sissoko (or HBA for that matter) despite being some of the top creative players outside of the top 6. As below

 

15 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

48 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Aiston said:

Sissoko spent 2 years top of that for us...he was completely shit according to people on here still

 

 

[leffe186]

5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

No idea why he still generates debate, it’s kind of weird. He was an average player who was here ages ago, forget about it. 

Have you seen the internet before? You know that if someone is wrong then people are obliged to respond

[Dr.Spaceman]

FWIW Sissoko had 4 MotM performances in his last year for us and regularly averaged 7/10 across the course of a season.

 

ASM is another that we're insistent on calling worse than shit. Here's his NUFC career stats for you...

 

 

If he's not good enough then we're basically calling a lot of decent ex players not good enough too. It's ridiculous to want us to move him on.

[gbandit]

Personally really like ASM and hope we can get the best out of him as he has a lot of talent. We’ll find out next season whether he can make a step forward with his game in decision making and better final ball passing. I also loved Robert, HBA and Ginola. I just didn’t love Sissoko and I don’t consider him to be similar to any of the other players mentioned as he couldn’t dribble the ball effectively, he couldn’t hold onto the ball well under pressure and he didn’t have great end product 

[Consortium of one]

Sissoko would have been best played as a BtB mid.  He had the athleticism and the drive to have been very successful.  Breaking up play in front of the back line and making late runs into the box suited him to a tee.   Pardew looked at his pace and tried to move him wide and he wasn't technical enough to do well there.

[mighty__mag]

6 hours ago, tomlynnherrington said:

Less than two chances per game created.When you consider how often he gets into positions to create a chance,even by just putting a cross into the danger area.Poor.Very poor.

 

Remind me who created more?

[mighty__mag]

3 hours ago, loki679 said:

 

'The other 14' is not the target anymore.

 

Be careful, you are starting to sound like an Everton fan.

[Barmy Ben Arfa]

I think ASM is going to have his best season yet next season. 10g 5a in the league territory.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Consortium of one said:

Sissoko would have been best played as a BtB mid.  He had the athleticism and the drive to have been very successful.  Breaking up play in front of the back line and making late runs into the box suited him to a tee.   Pardew looked at his pace and tried to move him wide and he wasn't technical enough to do well there.

If we’d used him same way I definitely think he could have been for that side, what Joelinton has become for us.

[mighty__mag]

 

Guy knows, was spot on with Wood.

 

Wood spent plenty of time avoiding opportunities.

[Barmy Ben Arfa]

If Wilson can get a good run of fitness then himself and Maxi will tear it up 

[Minhosa]

3 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

If that's how you see it, fair enough.

 

I thought he was really good at Spurs after getting beyond being ridiculed when he first got there, especially in the Champions League. 

 

Re the bit in bold, anecdotal but my boss is a Watford fan (was on a recent behind enemy lines sort of thing on True Faith I think) and we've spoken about him before - he rates him for where they are and puts the blame squarely at them not being able to defend/their owners' hiring and firing model.

 

We boo literally every ex-player, including James Milner. I agree that the perception of him here is bad though, that's what we're disagreeing about really. 

 

The reason he was compared to GW was because the accusation of him was that he hid when we were relegated. GW was invisible away from home, wasn't getting on the ball towards the end of the season and was dropped. Digging out Sissoko for hiding is based on very little anyway imo, but seems especially weird considering how guilty of that Wijnaldum was. Wijnaldum was and is obviously the better player, but in terms of graft and heart, Sissoko beats him hands down during their time here. 

I'm by no means offering a defence of GW, I've just got no time whatsoever for Sissoko and he is one of my most disliked NUFC players, as you can probably tell.

 

I do think both of them represent a specific time in our history when players were bought for non-sporting reasons (clauses, future value, stepping stones, damaged goods with upside potential) and think both of them fit very much into those brackets.

 

They, and every other player, at the time would almost certainly have been let down by incompetent coaching, management and leadership. That leadership/management, in turn, failed by a shocking executive and owner and a club ran with the intention of survival and minimal investment for maximum return.

 

BUT..........that's a whole other subject, moan etc.

 

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree...

 

[Minhosa]

1 hour ago, Barmy Ben Arfa said:

I think ASM is going to have his best season yet next season. 10g 5a in the league territory.

Yeah, gut feel is that ASM's season next year will go one way or t'other.

 

I think he'll either 'fit' into the Howe way or he'll find himself victim of some tough love and strop off in January having spent weeks in the press moaning.

 

FWIW, I think he's actually shown far more maturity in his last two performances and seems to be coming around more to the way Howe wants him to play.

 

I draw some parallels with Kevin Nolan here (and bare with me.................., I know, not an example anyone was expecting) but I would always say with Nolan "When he's not scoring he's a fucking pointless body in the 11, you just carry the useless cunt". Whilst ASM isn't quite in that category, I do feel that when he's not providing moments of match winning quality, he's someone we almost carry to an extent.

 

The question is whether he's worth carrying for those games because of the brilliance he brings in others. I guess the challenge he has (and Howe/the coaching staff) is how we get him to contribute in the games where he's not taking on 9 players and sticking it in the top bins...

 

Right now, he's either an unbelievable asset or a liability.

 

We need to get him to the point where he's either an unbelievable asset or a minor contributor who doesn't cost us too much. That's a hard balance to strike with the way he plays the game but I do feel the last two games he's progressed in that direction broadly.

 

What will be interesting to watch is his reaction to having to slightly alter his game. He's obviously got a bit of history with managers trying to change him/his style (Vieira) so it'll be a test of Howe's man-management as to how ASM comes through next season.

 

FWIW, I think both KK and SBR would've loved him and provided an environment in which to shine.

 

Can Howe do that and do that without it being to the detriment of the collective? That's the question....

[TRon]

4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Considering Gini fucking Wijnaldum was in the same team, the idea that Sissoko went hiding is laughable like. 

 

Wijnaldum and Sissoko were our two best players at the time and it was reflected in the fees we got for them. I know they got plenty of stick on here, and I also know they weren't perfect. Sissoko being one of our best players didn't make him a good player for Spurs.

 

But when you look at the side we had, he was probably one of the few who could actually offer an outlet. Gini was just a good player period, whether he gave 100% is another discussion, but he was easily our best player technically.

[HaydnNUFC]

Under Benitez, Sissoko was made captain for the run in and played well. Wijnaldum was dropped, he only really turned up at home games that season and even then the home games from February to the end of the season he didn't even bother for bar the final one once we were already down.

[jackyboy]

Football is constantly changing and I get he impression that Howe tries to keep abreast of those changes and tries to implement them onto his team's. It was interesting what he said when asked if he might play Wood and Wilson together. He said it was highly unlikely because playing with 2 strikers leaves too big a gap behind. It's not that long since everyone played with twin strikers in one form or another. This is my concern with ASM, I'm not convinced that he fits into the modern day top teams. He's a hell of a talent but the days when you could afford to have someone stuck up on the wing just waiting for the ball are long gone. Playing Bruces system suited him to perfection, no responsibility just wait for the ball then off you go.

 

[Happinesstan]

4 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

If we’d used him same way I definitely think he could have been for that side, what Joelinton has become for us.

No way he'd be as dominant in the air.

[tomlynnherrington]

4 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

 

Remind me who created more?

You’re totally missing the point my friend.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

No way he'd be as dominant in the air.

You’re talking about a man who could win headers without even looking at the ball here mind.

[Nine]

2 hours ago, jackyboy said:

Football is constantly changing and I get he impression that Howe tries to keep abreast of those changes and tries to implement them onto his team's. It was interesting what he said when asked if he might play Wood and Wilson together. He said it was highly unlikely because playing with 2 strikers leaves too big a gap behind. It's not that long since everyone played with twin strikers in one form or another. This is my concern with ASM, I'm not convinced that he fits into the modern day top teams. He's a hell of a talent but the days when you could afford to have someone stuck up on the wing just waiting for the ball are long gone. Playing Bruces system suited him to perfection, no responsibility just wait for the ball then off you go.

 

Pretty much the way I see him as well, the same could also apply for Targett albeit for different reasons than it does for ASM

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nine

[Fantail Breeze]

2 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Under Benitez, Sissoko was made captain for the run in and played well. Wijnaldum was dropped, he only really turned up at home games that season and even then the home games from February to the end of the season he didn't even bother for bar the final one once we were already down.

 

Sissoko was made captain because he had a huge influence over the French-speaking lads in the squad. Benitez was trying to get him on side in the hope it’d get all of them in line.

 

It was also in response to McClaren’s stance of trying to break up the French clique, which had lost him the dressing room.