Success at what cost?

[Kid Icarus]

I don't understand how image cleaning works with a purchase like this given that 99% of match going fans aren't in the kind of social/power spheres to really apply change to UK policy towards Saudi Arabia "Say what you will about the murderous regime that owns 80% of the club but they do put on a good halftime show. Let's talk about easing sanctions like." I'm oversimplifying not to paint that as anyone's actual argument but to say that's just how I see it in my head and it seems ridiculous.

 

It's more cultural cleaning, no? The UK policy with the Saudis is already:

 

[Disco]

It’s wank like but if we won a cup they could then just end football regardless. That’s me done. Completed it.

[Hhtoon]

Think F1 are in negotiations for a Saudi Arabian GP and the Joshua Ruiz 2 fight was hosted there.

This is obviously a far more direct link so not quite as relevant, but I didn't think anything of watching the boxing and would watch the F1 (if it wasn't fucking dull).

[Greg]

Spoke to the BBC about this - I am a little conflicted here and don't think I've quite settled my own view yet.

 

For many fans, the short answer to this is cautious joy.

 

It says something about Newcastle fans' resentment towards Ashley that the human rights record of Saudi Arabia barely registered when news of the potential deal first broke in January.

 

Tomlinson admits there are concerns but adds: "It is a billionaire's playground at that level and that is nothing we can bear any degree of responsibility for in terms of ownership.

 

"In an ideal world from my perspective, Newcastle United would be owned by the people, by the fans of the city as a community asset.

 

"We've seen reports like this before but it seems like we are further down the line this time in terms of ending that 13-year tenure of Mike Ashley which everyone wants to see the end of."

 

Full link https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52302094

[triggs]

I don't understand how image cleaning works with a purchase like this given that 99% of match going fans aren't in the kind of social/power spheres to really apply change to UK policy towards Saudi Arabia "Say what you will about the murderous regime that owns 80% of the club but they do put on a good halftime show. Let's talk about easing sanctions like." I'm oversimplifying not to paint that as anyone's actual argument but to say that's just how I see it in my head and it seems ridiculous.

 

This is the most watched sports league in the world.  Their reach will be a bit further than match going fans.  Maybe a while down the line their reputation within the game leads to a world cup in Saudi Arabia.

 

The question wasn't really about reach. I'm still questioning how the purchase of a club changes national perceptions. You're going from "lots of people will know they own the club" to "people will soften their stance on saudi arabia" without showing the work.

 

Also, why do that to get a world cup when Qatar got one through corruption and bribery at likely a far cheaper price than a club?

 

We will be sponsored by some state owned company or simply "Visit Saudi Arabia" or some shit across our shirts. They probably won't but wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to change the name of the stadium either. All of that will be broadcast across the world legitimising all of these companies/the state itself

[TheGuv]

Spoke to the BBC about this - I am a little conflicted here and don't think I've quite settled my own view yet.

 

For many fans, the short answer to this is cautious joy.

 

It says something about Newcastle fans' resentment towards Ashley that the human rights record of Saudi Arabia barely registered when news of the potential deal first broke in January.

 

Tomlinson admits there are concerns but adds: "It is a billionaire's playground at that level and that is nothing we can bear any degree of responsibility for in terms of ownership.

 

"In an ideal world from my perspective, Newcastle United would be owned by the people, by the fans of the city as a community asset.

 

"We've seen reports like this before but it seems like we are further down the line this time in terms of ending that 13-year tenure of Mike Ashley which everyone wants to see the end of."

 

Full link https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52302094

 

You spoke well.

 

We need the dust to settle and the deal to go through before we even start thinking about this conversation imo.

[Superior Acuña]

 

 

Soz, not being facetious - I think this is an important discussion. At the very least I hope there is some organization amongst Newcastle fans to use this to embarrass the Saudi regime, highlight some of the things that this global PR campaign is being used to brush aside. I need to think more, but ultimately I think I need to allow myself to enjoy the football side.

[Guest neesy111]

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

[triggs]

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

Don't we have an entire thread related to Saudi Arabian atrocities in chat?

[Guest neesy111]

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

Don't we have an entire thread related to Saudi Arabian atrocities in chat?

 

We do actually.

[loki679]

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52308344

 

I'll be honest with you, neesy, i'm a little disappointed.  They've been bombing the shit out of Yemen, chopping up journalists, crucifying and beheading folks and you come to us with a rich bint who's been in prison for a few months.

[Away Toon]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

[Guest neesy111]

[Guest The Little Waster]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

 

???

[Kasper]

Keep digging

[Rafalove]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

 

 

Wrong thread for discussion on capitalism.

 

 

 

 

 

[gazza ladra]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

 

 

Wrong thread for discussion on capitalism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s relevant. If you are supporting football you’re already compromised.  Some years ago Terry Eagleton called football the new opium, the crack cocaine of masses. The whole thing stinks.

[Kid Icarus]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

 

 

Wrong thread for discussion on capitalism.

 

Just as relevant as it would be in the Covid-19 thread tbh

[Kid Icarus]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

 

Although I dunno if you're making that as a side point to this or as an excuse.

[Rafalove]

Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years

 

 

Wrong thread for discussion on capitalism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s relevant. If you are supporting football you’re already compromised.  Some years ago Terry Eagleton called football the new opium, the crack cocaine of masses. The whole thing stinks.

 

 

The problem is that while Capitalism is far from perfect it’s The best system we have, even thats too simplistic because there are different types of capitalism. I do however think there is a problem structurally with in English football. I’ve long been an advocate for fan owned clubs, like they have in Germany. Even now with the promise of untold wealth and riches it’s still my ideal form of ownership.

 

 

 

As far as our moral duties as a fanbase we probably are obligated to kick up a fuss tbh. Though not just us, the  whole of English football is because the structure we have in place leaves us open to this kind of takeover.

[Kid Icarus]

Tbf, it's not the best system we have, it's just the only system we have and it collapses on average every 7 to 10 years. Funnily enough the same point you're making was made endlessly about feudalism before capitalism began. There aren't different forms of capitalism either really, only restricted versions that will always always fight to be unrestricted. Probably something for another thread as a wider discussion like, but it's undeniable that it relates to this discussion though, because capitalism is responsible for ripping the soul out of football, and more or less anything that can be monetised.

[timeEd32]

There's no doubt it's a problem and they would be at the bottom of a list of ideal mega-billionaires if we could choose. The suggestion that all billionaires are bad carries a bit of truth, but it's also a cop out. Few rise to the level of the Saudis in terms of their beliefs, practices, and human rights violations.

 

In general and particularly right now the world is in shambles. As an American we have thousands dying, millions unemployed, exorbitant or unavailable health insurance, a huge and growing wealth gap with horrible poverty mere miles from me, and a constant assault on the truth from the fucknugget in the White House and his sycophants. Not to mention a planet that is potentially on a path to irreversible harm.

 

I follow and watch sports for entertainment and for an escape from the above. Along with live music, it's my main hobby and has been since I was seven. Over the last decade my interest in this club and, as a result, this sport has diminished steadily. For the last four or five years I've barely cared at all about something I used to schedule my days and weeks around. For a number of years this forum was my most visited site on the internet. It was the first and last thing I opened every day. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've been here in the last 6-12 months. Complete apathy due entirely to the current owner. 

 

So it may be wrong and it may be selfish, but Mike Ashley took something away from me and I want it back.

 

I want to think all week about the next match.

 

I want to read (incoming) transfer rumors with a belief that a few of them may come true.

 

I want to scream at a referee through the TV.

 

I want to bitch and moan about the lineup an hour before kickoff.

 

I want to watch full matches from the edge of the coffee table because the couch just feels too far away.

 

I want to track flights and analyze grainy photos at the training ground because that player might be coming to the club.

 

I want to feel like I'm going to throw up while watching the last 10 minutes of a one goal lead.

 

I want to analyze the league table and pointlessly predict upcoming fixtures.

 

I want to scream bloody murder when we score a late winner and then type gibberish into a match thread.

 

I want the club to show even an ounce of ambition.

 

I want there to be hope.

 

I just want to care about Newcastle United again.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Tbh I’ve given it a lot of thought over the years and have come to accept that the cost of my principles would be some mad oil prince buying Newcastle. I still can’t believe that it would be possible that we’d be the richest club in the world with unlimited promise. 13 years of Ashley has left me feeling like one of the dogs in a PDSA advert. Just give me something to be happy about for fucks sake.

 

[jdckelly]

Tbf, it's not the best system we have, it's just the only system we have and it collapses on average every 7 to 10 years. Funnily enough the same point you're making was made endlessly about feudalism before capitalism began. There aren't different forms of capitalism either really, only restricted versions that will always always fight to be unrestricted. Probably something for another thread as a wider discussion like, but it's undeniable that it relates to this discussion though, because capitalism is responsible for ripping the soul out of football, and more or less anything that can be monetised.

you can have all the systems you like the common problem is humanity itself not the systems. To lay the blame solely at capatalism or whatever else you can name is to ignore the fact theres always lot of scumbags who weasel themselves into positions of power and will try and screw everyone over for their benefit

[Kid Icarus]

Tbf, it's not the best system we have, it's just the only system we have and it collapses on average every 7 to 10 years. Funnily enough the same point you're making was made endlessly about feudalism before capitalism began. There aren't different forms of capitalism either really, only restricted versions that will always always fight to be unrestricted. Probably something for another thread as a wider discussion like, but it's undeniable that it relates to this discussion though, because capitalism is responsible for ripping the soul out of football, and more or less anything that can be monetised.

you can have all the systems you like the common problem is humanity itself not the systems. To lay the blame solely at capatalism or whatever else you can name is to ignore the fact theres always lot of scumbags who weasel themselves into positions of power and will try and screw everyone over for their benefit

 

Humanity isn't solely good or bad by nature, it's good and bad by nature. So likewise you can't just say that humanity's to fault so we shouldn't bother with apportioning any blame to systems that support the bad and not attempt to improve. If your premise was correct, civilisation would have never advanced.