Success at what cost?

[STM]

Lol.

[Guest The Little Waster]

Lol.

 

Blimey , rapier wit there like ?

[Darth Crooks]

The problem I have with dressing as Arabs and flying their flag etc is it does exactly what PIF want it to do in terms of softening their image. Class doesn’t really come into it. Not my cup of tea humour wise but then an Irish bloke dressed as a woman saying fuck won best sitcom of all time recently so fuck do I know?

[Guest The Little Waster]

The problem I have with dressing as Arabs and flying their flag etc is it does exactly what PIF want it to do in terms of softening their image. Class doesn’t really come into it. Not my cup of tea humour wise but then an Irish bloke dressed as a woman saying fuck won best sitcom of all time recently so fuck do I know?

 

A bunch of NUFC fans dressed up as Arabs or anything else for that matter doesnt soften the image most people have of the Saudi regime . Its so minor as to be insignificant . Look to your government doing arms deals etc for where the real regime washing goes on . Like it or not Britain has had fraternal relations and a deep and abiding economic relationship with the Saudi state since its inception . All the straight lines on the map of the middle east are down to us ( Sykes Picot ) ...

[RS]

[Mattoon]

This is not a defence, but you can't pick and choose your moral outrages.

 

Actually you can, and absolutely everybody does. I care more about the morality of the NUFC ownership than I do the Uber ownership. I care more about the wrongdoings of the British state than I do the wrongdoings of the Tajikistan state. Campaigners who dedicate their lives to combating domestic violence care more about domestic violence than they do climate change.

 

No human can possibly dedicate the same level of investment into each and every moral outrage. Picking and choosing is the only option, and if you reject that then you're arguing no-one should ever express any sort of moral concern about any act, which would be perverse.

 

My argument isn't righteous indignation against the world, it's the Saudi side of things, you can't say it's close to home so you will be outraged by this but not about UK Government arms sales, usage of petrol, uber, Twitter, lyft, Snapchat, Deezer, the list goes on, all in use over here and I'll bet most of you if not all have used something on that list.

 

Again, I want to reiterate I'm not defending the Saudis and I'm not saying this is ok, but I'm not about to jump on my moral high horse and vilify NUFC and boycott when I can finally reconnect when I regularly use Twitter, petrol, etc.. and have never been vocal about government involvement. My personal opinion is that I'd be a hypocrite to do so.

 

 

So you lads would hate to be hypocrites but are happy to continue to support sportswashing of murderous regimes using your own football club? nice one. At least you're not hypocrites.

 

Hows that hypocrisy? No one is advocating supporting the Saudi regime. I'm saying that going to football match is no more supporting the Saudis than say, filling your car full of petrol or any number of other activities.

 

The post you agree with claims hating on the saudi's but still buying petrol is hypocrisy. I'm shocked you both find NUFC being owned by these people more palatable than being seen as a hypocrite.

 

I don't think it's hypocrisy either way.

 

I'm bringing this in here, where it belongs.

 

I want to state again, I don't find "sports washing" palatable, I also don't find targeting NUFC palatable when similar purchases are happening everywhere. I'm not supporting PIF and I'm not calling anyone a hypocrite. I just want to support a successful NUFC again, I have no control over the owners of NUFC, just as I have no control over who supplies my petrol, who's profiteering from my use of Twitter or Uber when I'm in the states, it doesn't mean I accept their practices.

 

As STM said in the other thread, you obviously feel very passionate about this and I applaud you for that, you're entitled to your opinion on this and your feelings on supporting NUFC in its new guise and I get where you're coming from. Maybe this is the catalyst to bring all the other issues to the forefront.

[Darth Crooks]

The problem I have with dressing as Arabs and flying their flag etc is it does exactly what PIF want it to do in terms of softening their image. Class doesn’t really come into it. Not my cup of tea humour wise but then an Irish bloke dressed as a woman saying fuck won best sitcom of all time recently so fuck do I know?

 

A bunch of NUFC fans dressed up as Arabs or anything else for that matter doesnt soften the image most people have of the Saudi regime . Its so minor as to be insignificant . Look to your government doing arms deals etc for where the real regime washing goes on . Like it or not Britain has had fraternal relations and a deep and abiding economic relationship with the Saudi state since its inception . All the straight lines on the map of the middle east are down to us ( Sykes Picot ) ...

 

 

I get it all that and it’s with respect largely irreverent, as soon as football fans start assimilating Saudi culture however superficially/trivially and flying flags digitally or otherwise - suddenly they aren’t the boogie men from Muslim lands anymore with dicey links to al queda but are being celebrated. In one sense it’s a good thing because it’s breaking down that barrier but Saudi flags being flown/dress whatever is emblematic ally embracing what they are trying to achieve tacitly or otherwise. I don’t agree with government policy re: Saudi Arabia either and it would be daft to broach this without considering British geo politics. We’ve blood on ‘our hands in the Middle East from Israel’s to Afghanistan and all points in between. I’m not engaging in some race to the bottom exercise though that’s Ashley’s game.

 

 

[Guest The Little Waster]

" but are being celebrated. "

Briefly wearing a tea towel on your head to a match isnt celebrating anything about the Saudi regime . As i said its an insignificant bit of daft fun that no one will remember 5 minutes after its happened . British foreign policy on the other hand ...

[Dr Jinx]

The media in general won’t tackle the bigger issue (governments readily happy to take their money for bombs and jets) so we’re going to have to get used to being a focus of their faux outrage.

 

I don’t personally agree with how they do things over there but it doesn’t effect me. There’s terrible things happening all over the world. It’s not my responsibility or burden.

 

Let them write what they feel they need to. Things will eventually go back to normal and they’ll run out of steam.

[Darth Crooks]

" but are being celebrated. "

Briefly wearing a tea towel on your head to a match isnt celebrating anything about the Saudi regime . As i said its an insignificant bit of daft fun that no one will remember 5 minutes after its happened . British foreign policy on the other hand ...

 

Alright agree to disagree on the fancy dress. Saudi flags at games and online are a bit less daft fun. Yeah British foreign policy in Saudi Arabia is shit, to extent many don’t vote for parties that celebrate/nuture it. You could perhaps naively say we have some say in that. MBS has had tea with the queen. Sure. Fuck the royals too and their privilege. These aren’t either or choices/issues as you’re presenting them but sure NUFC fans going all Saudi isn’t the same/as bad as British geopolitical interests - it’s acceptable to have truck with either. What’s to be done about it? Don’t know.

[Happinesstan]

The media in general won’t tackle the bigger issue (governments readily happy to take their money for bombs and jets) so we’re going to have to get used to being a focus of their faux outrage.

 

I don’t personally agree with how they do things over there but it doesn’t effect me. There’s terrible things happening all over the world. It’s not my responsibility or burden.

 

Let them write what they feel they need to. Things will eventually go back to normal and they’ll run out of steam.

 

The media hate us so it could force their hand in criticising the Saudi regime.

[madras]

The media in general won’t tackle the bigger issue (governments readily happy to take their money for bombs and jets) so we’re going to have to get used to being a focus of their faux outrage.

 

I don’t personally agree with how they do things over there but it doesn’t effect me. There’s terrible things happening all over the world. It’s not my responsibility or burden.

 

Let them write what they feel they need to. Things will eventually go back to normal and they’ll run out of steam.

 

The media hate us so it could force their hand in criticising the Saudi regime.

They wouldn't hate us if we followed Man City or Chelseas path.

[Ankles Bennett]

It's interesting that Saudi Arabia are  condemned as a murderous state by Amnesty because they torture and then execute by decapitation, yet no one blinks an eye at the USA encarcerating terrorists in Guantanamo bay and torturing them and the majority of their states execute prisoners by injecting drugs or electrocuting them to death sometimes after they have been on death row for 25 years.  Why doesn't Amnesty condemn the USA of sports washing when they stage sporting events!!

[Dr Jinx]

It's interesting that Saudi Arabia are  condemned as a murderous state by Amnesty because they torture and then execute by decapitation, yet no one blinks an eye at the USA encarcerating terrorists in Guantanamo bay and torturing them and the majority of their states execute prisoners by injecting drugs or electrocuting them to death sometimes after they have been on death row for 25 years.  Why doesn't Amnesty condemn the USA of sports washing when they stage sporting events!!

 

Honestly, we all know the answer to that. The word is full of hypocrites and those who control the media control the narrative.

 

We don’t really need to get into ethical debates over this. Its a far bigger issue than football.

[thomas]

Saudi Arabia's stubborn, ponderous trek into human/civil rights modernity will be neither hastened nor delayed by this purchase. The good I can extract from it is MA out of the club and better fortunes on the field. Won't be chanting MBS's name or explaining the shahada on my saudi flag t-shirt.

[triggs]

The US government doesn't own sports teams. There's also a pretty big difference between treating prisoners badly or sentencing them to death and murdering journalists for doing their job

[Guest The Little Waster]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

[triggs]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

 

The US government don't own sports teams

[Guest The Little Waster]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

 

The US government don't own sports teams

 

Yeah ? And ? So ? What ?

If the fact of them owning us is too much for you to handle , you have the choice to walk away .

[number9shirt]

I assume all these people suffering a sudden bout of morality won't be traveling via Uber put down their iPhone stop drinking Coca-Cola & cease watching football on Amazon Prime.

[Kasper]

I assume all these people suffering a sudden bout of morality won't be traveling via Uber put down their iPhone stop drinking Coca-Cola & cease watching football on Amazon Prime.

 

Fresh take, I like it.

[Wullie]

You all watched the 1936 Olympics and didn't complain then!

[triggs]

There's a difference between private companies and governments

[Deuce]

It's interesting that Saudi Arabia are  condemned as a murderous state by Amnesty because they torture and then execute by decapitation, yet no one blinks an eye at the USA encarcerating terrorists in Guantanamo bay and torturing them and the majority of their states execute prisoners by injecting drugs or electrocuting them to death sometimes after they have been on death row for 25 years.  Why doesn't Amnesty condemn the USA of sports washing when they stage sporting events!!

 

You can make your case, however poorly-reasoned, as soon as the U.S. government purchases a professional sports team.

[thomas]

:lol: I mean, say it wasn't Saudi Arabia. (FWIW I've absolutely made peace with the deal and look forward to the future. )

 

Say it was Rupert Murdoch.

 

Through a series of hilarious blunders by his aides and minders he ends up spending a fantastic Friday night in Bigg Market and wakes up the next morning on full horny for the city. Boom, buys the club.

 

No one would be batting an eye at someone who found his ownership to be as odious or worse than Ashley's and took a pass at worst or distanced themselves significantly at best. Absolutely no one. Except'n if you're a cunt what's being contrarian for the sake of it.

 

So why does a state-level actor get all the equivalency and whataboutism for inarguably worse transgressions?