Success at what cost?

[Guest The Little Waster]

Got to say, I’m becoming increasingly not okay with this. I mean I’ve always thought of our club as meaning a bit more than what happens on field. If this goes through it completely puts that thought to bed. I mean we could protest this lot, but vast swathes of our fanbase didn’t bother protesting Ashley. The idea of galvanising a weary and tired fanbase, against a regime, that promises football beyond our wildest dreams is completely impossible. What happens if we’re successful, and convince this lot to sell, do we just keep being relayed from owner to owner?

 

Well, if you're not ok with it, then just walk away. Or watch with disinterest and disapproval if you like. For me it's always been about wanting to watch a successful Newcastle team, I'll leave the politics to other people. If PIF are passed fit to be owners by those who are charged with these duties, then that's that far as I'm concerned. I will certainly enjoy watching Newcastle become a proper football club again, I don't think it will cost me much at all.

This ...

Will they walk away though ? Or will they find an excuse to attend whilst attempting to claim the moral high ground as opposed to the poor beknighted masses ?

 

I can understand not wanting to be associated with the Saudis tbh, but everyone has their own limit. I sympathise with those who feel it more strongly, I would hate not to be able to enjoy being part of a successful NUFC. For me that would be the cost I couldn't live with.

 

Its telling that they are continually being asked the question : " Will you still attend matches " ? and all you get back is silence ...

[Rompe]

I see a lot of our supporters are already doing Saudi Arabias bidding on here and on twitter.

 

"What about the USA?"

"How can you criticize Saudi Arabia when x and y, and this and that?

"Saudi Arabia isn't that bad anyway, look at any other country on earth and you will find dirt if you dig enough"

"Are they really any worse than owner x of club y?"

 

This type of rhetoric is exactly what they want, now they got thousands and thousands of fans willing to relativize Saudi Arabias crimes.

 

[Kid Icarus]

Got to say, I’m becoming increasingly not okay with this. I mean I’ve always thought of our club as meaning a bit more than what happens on field. If this goes through it completely puts that thought to bed. I mean we could protest this lot, but vast swathes of our fanbase didn’t bother protesting Ashley. The idea of galvanising a weary and tired fanbase, against a regime, that promises football beyond our wildest dreams is completely impossible. What happens if we’re successful, and convince this lot to sell, do we just keep being relayed from owner to owner?

 

Well, if you're not ok with it, then just walk away. Or watch with disinterest and disapproval if you like. For me it's always been about wanting to watch a successful Newcastle team, I'll leave the politics to other people. If PIF are passed fit to be owners by those who are charged with these duties, then that's that far as I'm concerned. I will certainly enjoy watching Newcastle become a proper football club again, I don't think it will cost me much at all.

This ...

Will they walk away though ? Or will they find an excuse to attend whilst attempting to claim the moral high ground as opposed to the poor beknighted masses ?

 

I can understand not wanting to be associated with the Saudis tbh, but everyone has their own limit. I sympathise with those who feel it more strongly, I would hate not to be able to enjoy being part of a successful NUFC. For me that would be the cost I couldn't live with.

 

Its telling that they are continually being asked the question : " Will you still attend matches " ? and all you get back is silence ...

 

I'll answer then. No, I won't be attending matches or giving them any money. Happy?

[Guest The Little Waster]

I see a lot of our supporters are already doing Saudi Arabias bidding on here and on twitter.

 

"What about the USA?"

"How can you criticize Saudi Arabia when x and y, and this and that?

"Saudi Arabia isn't that bad anyway, look at any other country on earth and you will find dirt if you dig enough"

"Are they really any worse than owner x of club y?"

 

This type of rhetoric is exactly what they want, now they got thousands and thousands of fans willing to relativize Saudi Arabias crimes.

 

People are pointing out that the world isnt like a Disney film . Fans have no control over who buys the club , we only have the choice to still attend or stop going . You gonna stop going ?

[Guest The Little Waster]

Got to say, I’m becoming increasingly not okay with this. I mean I’ve always thought of our club as meaning a bit more than what happens on field. If this goes through it completely puts that thought to bed. I mean we could protest this lot, but vast swathes of our fanbase didn’t bother protesting Ashley. The idea of galvanising a weary and tired fanbase, against a regime, that promises football beyond our wildest dreams is completely impossible. What happens if we’re successful, and convince this lot to sell, do we just keep being relayed from owner to owner?

 

Well, if you're not ok with it, then just walk away. Or watch with disinterest and disapproval if you like. For me it's always been about wanting to watch a successful Newcastle team, I'll leave the politics to other people. If PIF are passed fit to be owners by those who are charged with these duties, then that's that far as I'm concerned. I will certainly enjoy watching Newcastle become a proper football club again, I don't think it will cost me much at all.

This ...

Will they walk away though ? Or will they find an excuse to attend whilst attempting to claim the moral high ground as opposed to the poor beknighted masses ?

 

I can understand not wanting to be associated with the Saudis tbh, but everyone has their own limit. I sympathise with those who feel it more strongly, I would hate not to be able to enjoy being part of a successful NUFC. For me that would be the cost I couldn't live with.

 

Its telling that they are continually being asked the question : " Will you still attend matches " ? and all you get back is silence ...

 

I'll answer then. No, I won't be attending matches or giving them any money. Happy?

 

Overjoyed ?

[jdckelly]

look here it is plain and simple; thus far anywhere on this forum I've seen no one saying fans shouldn't be positive and enjoy any success its just been people expressing their own personal concerns and feelings about this matter. If your over the moon and couldn't care less about what SA has done good for you but not everyone is going to share this point of view and there is nothing wrong with expressing this opinion. Bringing the USA or anything else is irrelevant to the arguement because the USA is not buying a football club Saudi Arabia is and its our one.

 

And anyone thinking the media wouldn't be saying this if they were buying Man Utd is wrong they would probably more than here with Man Utd as one of the biggest two clubs historically in English football. Certainly some of the media would cheerfully ignore it and just write transfer stories linking them with messi whatever but guess what they'll do the exact same for us until football returns to fill pages and get clicks and it will all be complete horse shit.

 

[Tiresias]

There are going to be 3 camps

 

those that are going and feel no reason to feel bad about it

those that go but have qualms over the owners

those that refuse to go

 

Quite frankly I don't have a problem with any of these groups and will sit in the second group. I am totally aware I am a hypocrite considering i am boycotting currently and obviously the saudis are morally worse. (slight qualification being as much as i hate sports directs practises my boycott is more about his treatment of the club) However I also feel powerless in face of these massive forces and football has been morally going to the dogs in general anyway so want to at least have some dog in the game. It's complicated and I may revise this.

However I would like to avoid these three groups all turning on each other and getting in 'NOT A TRUE FAN'. People ahve good reason to boycott, people have good reason to feel the draw to much and not to take the moral burden on themselves too. The only thing that I will find forever embarassing is people sucking up to the regime, a regime that would publicly beat me, chemically castrate me etc for being gay. But yeah wear an outfit and put their flag about... Cunts are running the club, football and the world, I want to get what enjoyment I have but I do also want to see it changed. If I had the option of fan ownership and meagre investment and the club struggling to avoid relegation but run well, I woudl take that over this. But until football is as a whole governed in a sane manner and this stuff is banned this stuff will keep happening. And I also won't lie and pretend i'm not excited to see us having a proper go again.

[Kid Icarus]

I'd be very surprised if you proved any point with that question tbh, there'll be plenty who won't go and those that do aren't disqualified from stating a preference for non-murdering owners or indulging in unparalleled whataboutisms.

[triggs]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

 

The US government don't own sports teams

No they dont they just murder their prisoners.

 

Which has absolutely no relevance here until Trump lodges a bid for us

[Guest reefatoon]

Agree with Tiresias[/member] About hopefully no infighting between the different groups. Going to be such a shame to eventually get rid of our horrific owner and splintered support for it to only carry on. Fully understand everyone’s take and side to it, just such a shame people won’t all be able to pull together for the first time in over a decade.

[Guest The Little Waster]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

 

The US government don't own sports teams

No they dont they just murder their prisoners.

 

Which has absolutely no relevance here until Trump lodges a bid for us

 

So , will you still be attending matches or will you stop going ?

[Hhtoon]

I'd prefer if they'd remain fairly quiet behind the scenes as it wouldn't be something I'm particularly proud of but I'll be supporting us regardless. I do find the dressing up malarky a tad distasteful on reflection but thats probably slightly hypocritical.

[triggs]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

 

The US government don't own sports teams

No they dont they just murder their prisoners.

 

Which has absolutely no relevance here until Trump lodges a bid for us

 

So , will you still be attending matches or will you stop going ?

 

I was actually planning a trip over with mates in May before this all happened, and probably will when this is all over. I've consistently said that fans have every right to support the club. Its defending the Saudi's or the "hey what about America, hey what about Sheffield Utd., all the journos are just jealous" Saudi flag waving element I take issue with

[Guest The Little Waster]

Check the long list of countries invaded  by the USA ... the crimes it has perpetrated over the years dwarf anything the Saudis could imagine

 

The US government don't own sports teams

No they dont they just murder their prisoners.

 

Which has absolutely no relevance here until Trump lodges a bid for us

 

So , will you still be attending matches or will you stop going ?

 

I was actually planning a trip over with mates in May before this all happened, and probably will when this is all over. I've consistently said that fans have every right to support the club. Its defending the Saudi's or the "hey what about America, hey what about Sheffield Utd., all the journos are just jealous" Saudi flag waving element I take issue with

 

I dont see anyone defending the Saudis ... people have merely pointed out that football like everything else ( it seems ) in this world is the plaything of the rich . Fans unfortunately have no control over who buys / runs their club and probably never will . In light of that reality we have a choice to attend or not attend but its a bit rich if people who rightly criticise the murderous Saudi regime , still attend and at the same time think its ok to criticise others who will attend and refer to ordinary fans of whose lives they have zero knowledge as knuckle dragging morons simply for the potential ' crime ' of dressing up as an Arab or whatever . It smacks of a holier than thou smugfest of people believing they are better than other fans simply because they dont share the same sense of humour . There are plenty of things fans have done over the years which could be described as moronic - continually buying season tickets in the face of an owner determined to squeeze the life out of the club , the casual racism of past years etc ... sticking a tea towel on yer head for a laugh at some future match seems to me to be so insignificant as to be almost not worthy of comment

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Can you not just create a thread about whether its moronic to wear a towel on your head at the match?

[mickthemagpie]

Support the team, not the regime....

[Happinesstan]

I assume all these people suffering a sudden bout of morality won't be traveling via Uber put down their iPhone stop drinking Coca-Cola & cease watching football on Amazon Prime.

 

Never used Uber. Don't own anything by Apple. Haven't drunk Coke since 2003. And don't subscribe to any TV packages.

 

But then it's not a sudden bout of morality.

[Happinesstan]

You can all boycott the club should you wish to remain pure . Will you though ?

 

Aye. I hate change.

[number9shirt]

I assume all these people suffering a sudden bout of morality won't be traveling via Uber put down their iPhone stop drinking Coca-Cola & cease watching football on Amazon Prime.

 

Never used Uber. Don't own anything by Apple. Haven't drunk Coke since 2003. And don't subscribe to any TV packages.

 

But then it's not a sudden bout of morality.

 

Ever used Google or watched a Disney film?

[Happinesstan]

I assume all these people suffering a sudden bout of morality won't be traveling via Uber put down their iPhone stop drinking Coca-Cola & cease watching football on Amazon Prime.

 

Never used Uber. Don't own anything by Apple. Haven't drunk Coke since 2003. And don't subscribe to any TV packages.

 

But then it's not a sudden bout of morality.

 

Ever used Google or watched a Disney film?

 

I use Bing and haven't watched Disney since I grew beyond the demographic.

[Ankles Bennett]

It's interesting that Saudi Arabia are  condemned as a murderous state by Amnesty because they torture and then execute by decapitation, yet no one blinks an eye at the USA encarcerating terrorists in Guantanamo bay and torturing them and the majority of their states execute prisoners by injecting drugs or electrocuting them to death sometimes after they have been on death row for 25 years.  Why doesn't Amnesty condemn the USA of sports washing when they stage sporting events!!

 

The answer to that is simple, they do.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/national-security/

https://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/

 

good point. The likes of Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have been critical of the USG for as long as they've existed.

 

I wasnt looking but wasnt aware of Amnesty condemning the Wilder Fury fight. 

[Troll]

The US aren't sportswashing.  They're not hosting boxing matches to improve their international reputation, they're doing it because Americans like boxing and there's money in it.

[thomas]

Nevermind that we have no reputation to protect or try and fix, we're just dickheads forever and we don't care

[Ankles Bennett]

And that is different to what SA are doing?

[BlueStar]

Happy to take their money, hope any attempt at "sportswashing" fails miserably.  Happy for fans of other clubs to chant about Jamaal Kershoggi or whatever, hope it happens.