Success at what cost?

[Superior Acuña]

Loki, since you engaged with the point, why don't you just explain your thinking behind this post and how it's different to us - seems to be all ManDoon is essentially asking

 

Not trying to dig anyone out here, but we (rightly) gave Sunderland grief for the Adam Johnson stuff, aren’t we doing the same thing really. Well as long as we win and we don’t really care how? Just a thought

 

No. They could have done something and they didn't.

 

And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football?  People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything.

 

I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

 

Honestly, I think you're a bit of a dick but I respect you because you have your values and convictions and don't compromise on them.

 

Saying 'I'll join in with the celebrations but I'll feel guilty about it' is the worst kind of horseshit.

 

Actually I think that's much better than not giving a shit.

 

This weird things developing where it's somehow better to be devoid of values or 'virtues' than it is to have them and sometimes be inconsistent, conflicted or 'hypocritical', or worst of all, signal them.

[Wullie]

The guys from the Independent and the Guardian are getting by far the most grief.

 

I think many people feel that Independent journalists are a bit hypocritical, when a Saudi investor part owns the company.

 

I thought that journalists' work not being dictated by the owners of their outlets would be seen as a good thing but you live and learn.

 

He could try and get a job at another newspaper, since hes so principled.

 

And if he does that, how does it change the situation at NUFC or whether it's right or wrong for these guys to own the club?

 

It doesn't at all, it's just a lazy cheap point scoring exercise to avoid discussing the actual issue. Play the ball, not the man.

 

I'm talking about him being a hypocrite and why I find it annoying and I've made my point. It doesnt change a thing on the ownership issue. But it makes him a hypocrite and in the process annoys me.

 

Why do you change the subject? I can, on the one hand, see someones point of view but on the other see them as a hypocrite because of it.

 

Do you want to talk about the morality of Saudi ownership or hypocrisy? I've put aside the ownership issue and said it's fair enough that people feel uncomfortable but I'm not having someone telling me what I should think or do when they dont themselves take a stand.

 

I take Neesys point that the guy might have tried to get a job at a newspaper, and fair play if he did. I doubt it.

 

It's not hypocrisy though.

 

His position, as I understand it, is: Newcastle fans are going to benefiting from Saudi money, and so should speak out against their human rights abuses while doing so (at the match etc).

 

That's exactly what he's doing. He's taking a wage from a newspaper part owned by Saudi money, and speaking out against their human rights abuses while doing so. He's practising what he preaches. It's literally the opposite of hypocrisy.

[Pixelphish]

Wew.

[STM]

Loki, since you engaged with the point, why don't you just explain your thinking behind this post and how it's different to us - seems to be all ManDoon is essentially asking

 

Not trying to dig anyone out here, but we (rightly) gave Sunderland grief for the Adam Johnson stuff, aren’t we doing the same thing really. Well as long as we win and we don’t really care how? Just a thought

 

No. They could have done something and they didn't.

 

And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football?  People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything.

 

I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

 

Theres tonnes of virtue signalling going on, not just from people in here.

 

Is it bollocks. Not a single person on here has chastised anyone else for not making the same personal decision that they have.

 

The Saudis are human rights abusers and we shouldn't want them owning the club, any arguement to the contrary is either wrong, irrelevant or "whataboutery".

 

Its condescending to anyone who also has a brain, has also weighed up the pros and cons, who had also heard of sports washing before this thing.

 

 

[loki679]

Such a little bitch you can’t even @ me.

 

ManDoon[/member]

 

Not sure what that was meant to accomplish.

[loki679]

Loki, since you engaged with the point, why don't you just explain your thinking behind this post and how it's different to us - seems to be all ManDoon is essentially asking

 

Not trying to dig anyone out here, but we (rightly) gave Sunderland grief for the Adam Johnson stuff, aren’t we doing the same thing really. Well as long as we win and we don’t really care how? Just a thought

 

No. They could have done something and they didn't.

 

And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football?  People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything.

 

I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

 

Honestly, I think you're a bit of a dick but I respect you because you have your values and convictions and don't compromise on them.

 

Saying 'I'll join in with the celebrations but I'll feel guilty about it' is the worst kind of horseshit.

 

Actually I think that's much better than not giving a shit.

 

This weird things developing where it's somehow better to be devoid of values or 'virtues' than it is to have them and sometimes be inconsistent, conflicted or 'hypocritical', or worst of all, signal them.

 

One is honest. One is trying to paint a face.

[thomas]

loki679[/member], bro, even if people were the most obnoxious of online slactivist virtue signaling dickbags why does it rankle you so? They don't matter.

 

fwiw I don't think mandoon or ki or anyone here really fall into that category. Just curious.

[STM]

The guys from the Independent and the Guardian are getting by far the most grief.

 

I think many people feel that Independent journalists are a bit hypocritical, when a Saudi investor part owns the company.

 

I thought that journalists' work not being dictated by the owners of their outlets would be seen as a good thing but you live and learn.

 

He could try and get a job at another newspaper, since hes so principled.

 

And if he does that, how does it change the situation at NUFC or whether it's right or wrong for these guys to own the club?

 

It doesn't at all, it's just a lazy cheap point scoring exercise to avoid discussing the actual issue. Play the ball, not the man.

 

I'm talking about him being a hypocrite and why I find it annoying and I've made my point. It doesnt change a thing on the ownership issue. But it makes him a hypocrite and in the process annoys me.

 

Why do you change the subject? I can, on the one hand, see someones point of view but on the other see them as a hypocrite because of it.

 

Do you want to talk about the morality of Saudi ownership or hypocrisy? I've put aside the ownership issue and said it's fair enough that people feel uncomfortable but I'm not having someone telling me what I should think or do when they dont themselves take a stand.

 

I take Neesys point that the guy might have tried to get a job at a newspaper, and fair play if he did. I doubt it.

 

It's not hypocrisy though.

 

His position, as I understand it, is: Newcastle fans are going to benefiting from Saudi money, and so should speak out against their human rights abuses while doing so (at the match etc).

 

That's exactly what he's doing. He's taking a wage from a newspaper part owned by Saudi money, and speaking out against their human rights abuses while doing so. He's practising what he preaches. It's literally the opposite of hypocrisy.

 

I dont agree. Hes working for (and by proxy, supporting) the very people who he says we should snub. I've never doubted his knowledge on the subject fwiw.

 

I also think we all play apart in the horrid game. Every time I get petrol, I'm probably supporting them in some way.

 

It's just this time, i might get some glimmer of joy out of my football club. I know its selfish but that's just how I feel.

[loki679]

loki679[/member], bro, even if people were the most obnoxious of online slactivist virtue signaling dickbags why does it rankle you so? They don't matter.

 

fwiw I don't think mandoon or ki or anyone here really fall into that category. Just curious.

 

KI doesn't.

[Alberts Mustache]

Saying 'I'll join in with the celebrations but I'll feel guilty about it' is the worst kind of horseshit.

 

I don't know who even said this, but having a legit moral quarrel without being completely black or white is the worst kind of horseshit? Reminds me of a George W. Bush quote.

[RS]

It’s going to be quiet in here when the Saudis get in. #newcastlebluestar-online

[Kid Icarus]

Loki, since you engaged with the point, why don't you just explain your thinking behind this post and how it's different to us - seems to be all ManDoon is essentially asking

 

Not trying to dig anyone out here, but we (rightly) gave Sunderland grief for the Adam Johnson stuff, aren’t we doing the same thing really. Well as long as we win and we don’t really care how? Just a thought

 

No. They could have done something and they didn't.

 

And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football?  People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything.

 

I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

 

Theres tonnes of virtue signalling going on, not just from people in here.

 

Is it bollocks. Not a single person on here has chastised anyone else for not making the same personal decision that they have.

 

The Saudis are human rights abusers and we shouldn't want them owning the club, any arguement to the contrary is either wrong, irrelevant or "whataboutery".

 

Its condescending to anyone who also has a brain, has also weighed up the pros and cons, who had also heard of sports washing before this thing.

 

Bullshit. The argument isn't that you 'shouldn't want them owning the club' at all and I challenge you to find anyone saying that. The argument was that whataboutery is being used to deflect from the fact that the Saudis are human rights abusers. Nothing more, nothing less. As has been said countless times, it's possible to make a decision that each person's conscience is comfortable with, without feeling the need put any and every argument in front of reckoning with the facts about who these people are.

[STM]

Jeez, is it getting hot in here?   

 

Peace and love to you all. You are all good people. Let's be nice.

[loki679]

Such a little bitch you can’t even @ me.

 

ManDoon[/member]

 

Not sure what that was meant to accomplish.

 

The fact its just a snidey cunty thing to talk about me to someone else, when you're clearly referring to me. If you got something to say then say it, don't go crying off to someone else. All I did was bring up a fair point that had ZERO to do with me and you starting being a little girl about it. I have no idea why, or what your problem is. Acting like a fanny about it and talking about me to someone else is the behavior of a pussy. If thats how you want to be then its up to you.

 

I was talking to you directly. Got anything apart from schoolyard insults and crocodile tears?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I’ll support my club, I’ll regret that it’s owned by Saudi Arabia. I’ll regret the state of the game that allows it to happen.

 

I don’t think I’d call that hypocrisy. We could all have been protesting again Saudi Arabia any time we wanted.

[Superior Acuña]

Loki, since you engaged with the point, why don't you just explain your thinking behind this post and how it's different to us - seems to be all ManDoon is essentially asking

 

Not trying to dig anyone out here, but we (rightly) gave Sunderland grief for the Adam Johnson stuff, aren’t we doing the same thing really. Well as long as we win and we don’t really care how? Just a thought

 

No. They could have done something and they didn't.

 

And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football?  People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything.

 

I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

 

Honestly, I think you're a bit of a dick but I respect you because you have your values and convictions and don't compromise on them.

 

Saying 'I'll join in with the celebrations but I'll feel guilty about it' is the worst kind of horseshit.

 

Actually I think that's much better than not giving a shit.

 

This weird things developing where it's somehow better to be devoid of values or 'virtues' than it is to have them and sometimes be inconsistent, conflicted or 'hypocritical', or worst of all, signal them.

 

One is honest. One is trying to paint a face.

 

Personally would rather someone tries to live by some values and sometimes fucks up/is sometimes inconsistent (like every human who tried?) than someone who 'honestly' doesn't give a shit about anyone so that they can be self-righteous in their purity.

[thomas]

[Wullie]

The guys from the Independent and the Guardian are getting by far the most grief.

 

I think many people feel that Independent journalists are a bit hypocritical, when a Saudi investor part owns the company.

 

I thought that journalists' work not being dictated by the owners of their outlets would be seen as a good thing but you live and learn.

 

He could try and get a job at another newspaper, since hes so principled.

 

And if he does that, how does it change the situation at NUFC or whether it's right or wrong for these guys to own the club?

 

It doesn't at all, it's just a lazy cheap point scoring exercise to avoid discussing the actual issue. Play the ball, not the man.

 

I'm talking about him being a hypocrite and why I find it annoying and I've made my point. It doesnt change a thing on the ownership issue. But it makes him a hypocrite and in the process annoys me.

 

Why do you change the subject? I can, on the one hand, see someones point of view but on the other see them as a hypocrite because of it.

 

Do you want to talk about the morality of Saudi ownership or hypocrisy? I've put aside the ownership issue and said it's fair enough that people feel uncomfortable but I'm not having someone telling me what I should think or do when they dont themselves take a stand.

 

I take Neesys point that the guy might have tried to get a job at a newspaper, and fair play if he did. I doubt it.

 

It's not hypocrisy though.

 

His position, as I understand it, is: Newcastle fans are going to benefiting from Saudi money, and so should speak out against their human rights abuses while doing so (at the match etc).

 

That's exactly what he's doing. He's taking a wage from a newspaper part owned by Saudi money, and speaking out against their human rights abuses while doing so. He's practising what he preaches. It's literally the opposite of hypocrisy.

 

I dont agree. Hes working for (and by proxy, supporting) the very people who he says we should snub. I've never doubted his knowledge on the subject fwiw.

 

I also think we all play apart in the horrid game. Every time I get petrol, I'm probably supporting them in some way.

 

It's just this time, i might get some glimmer of joy out of my football club. I know its selfish but that's just how I feel.

 

He doesn't say they should be 'snubbed' though, in fact the main thing he advocated that people had a problem with was a protest at the games themselves which is exactly in keeping with his circumstances. I think that's unrealistic, there's just no history of political protest in this country at football, but it's certainly not without precedent. Bayern Munich supporters at the moment are being extremely vocal on the club's relationship with Qatar.

 

[Kid Icarus]

Jeez, is it getting hot in here?   

 

Peace and love to you all. You are all good people. Let's be nice.

 

Apologies, but the whole virtue signalling, snowflake, IDpol bollocks pisses me off as well and I don't think it's fair to apply it to anyone on here, particularly when we're talking about war criminals and not about being triggered over language or whatever. I think everyone, pretty much to a man, has been respectful of everyone else's individual decision tbh.

[loki679]

Such a little bitch you can’t even @ me.

 

ManDoon[/member]

 

Not sure what that was meant to accomplish.

 

The fact its just a snidey cunty thing to talk about me to someone else, when you're clearly referring to me. If you got something to say then say it, don't go crying off to someone else. All I did was bring up a fair point that had ZERO to do with me and you starting being a little girl about it. I have no idea why, or what your problem is. Acting like a fanny about it and talking about me to someone else is the behavior of a pussy. If thats how you want to be then its up to you.

 

I was talking to you directly. Got anything apart from schoolyard insults and crocodile tears?

 

Lol, have you got anything apart from your weird online picking of arguments and crying literally about (putting on a face) I've done nothing of the sort, I've said exactly what I think, you just are weird, feel free to DM me if you want to chat more.

 

Keep posing, man, it suits you.

[loki679]

loki679[/member], bro, even if people were the most obnoxious of online slactivist virtue signaling dickbags why does it rankle you so? They don't matter.

 

fwiw I don't think mandoon or ki or anyone here really fall into that category. Just curious.

 

KI doesn't.

 

An exact quote from Ki

I'll very likely be a hypocrite and still watch us on telly, just as I do now

 

an exact quote from me

 

(I'm personally probably going to watch (though feel guilty about it)

 

Just shows your personal petty attack on me has not basis in reality. But you know that already. I'm not having a go at you kisearch[/member] here btw. Just Loki being a little angry weirdo trying to pick fights with me online,

 

:cheesy:

 

Difference is he accepts he's a hypocrite.

[Wullie]

Take it to PMs.

[Dokko]

Soooo....the bin Salman fella. Any good?

[STM]

The guys from the Independent and the Guardian are getting by far the most grief.

 

I think many people feel that Independent journalists are a bit hypocritical, when a Saudi investor part owns the company.

 

I thought that journalists' work not being dictated by the owners of their outlets would be seen as a good thing but you live and learn.

 

He could try and get a job at another newspaper, since hes so principled.

 

And if he does that, how does it change the situation at NUFC or whether it's right or wrong for these guys to own the club?

 

It doesn't at all, it's just a lazy cheap point scoring exercise to avoid discussing the actual issue. Play the ball, not the man.

 

I'm talking about him being a hypocrite and why I find it annoying and I've made my point. It doesnt change a thing on the ownership issue. But it makes him a hypocrite and in the process annoys me.

 

Why do you change the subject? I can, on the one hand, see someones point of view but on the other see them as a hypocrite because of it.

 

Do you want to talk about the morality of Saudi ownership or hypocrisy? I've put aside the ownership issue and said it's fair enough that people feel uncomfortable but I'm not having someone telling me what I should think or do when they dont themselves take a stand.

 

I take Neesys point that the guy might have tried to get a job at a newspaper, and fair play if he did. I doubt it.

 

It's not hypocrisy though.

 

His position, as I understand it, is: Newcastle fans are going to benefiting from Saudi money, and so should speak out against their human rights abuses while doing so (at the match etc).

 

That's exactly what he's doing. He's taking a wage from a newspaper part owned by Saudi money, and speaking out against their human rights abuses while doing so. He's practising what he preaches. It's literally the opposite of hypocrisy.

 

I dont agree. Hes working for (and by proxy, supporting) the very people who he says we should snub. I've never doubted his knowledge on the subject fwiw.

 

I also think we all play apart in the horrid game. Every time I get petrol, I'm probably supporting them in some way.

 

It's just this time, i might get some glimmer of joy out of my football club. I know its selfish but that's just how I feel.

 

He doesn't say they should be 'snubbed' though, in fact the main thing he advocated that people had a problem with was a protest at the games themselves which is exactly in keeping with his circumstances. I think that's unrealistic, there's just no history of political protest in this country at football, but it's certainly not without precedent. Bayern Munich supporters at the moment are being extremely vocal on the club's relationship with Qatar.

 

 

:thup:

 

[loki679]

You're completely insane man, me and him have said the exact same thing. Almost word for word. Just man up and admit you've got an issue with me and we can move on, stop pretending its anything else but that. You're a joke, as I just proved

 

I guess I have an issue with him too then. The difference is he believes what he says.