Various: N-O has lost the plot over potential end of Mike Ashley's tenure

[Jackie Broon]

We have no more right to information than customers of any other organisation involved in takeover talks.

 

If Halfords were being bought out and you got your MOT there every year, you'd have no right to know how far along the takeover was. This is no different. Sure, we're more emotionally invested, but the legalities are the same. We have no right to know anything and whilst I'm sick to my back teeth of this dragging out, they're quite right to tell us nothing. It is, in the very literal sense of the words, none of our business.

 

Also, people saying it's incompetence that it's taking so long.... The ONLY reason it's taking so long is to give SA a chance to put their shit in order. The only way this could possibly be concluded quicker is by NOT giving that opportunity. Knowing what we know, there's no way they could pass this test without making a lot of changes and concessions, and they take time.

 

But the prospective directors need to have demonstrably done something equivalent to an offence in this country to fail the test. The government not doing enough to prevent piracy is not likely to equate to an offence.

 

I think it's probably quite the opposite, that PIF are happy to go along with what the PL are asking for now, but both they and the PL know that there is no way that a disqualification of the directors would be likely to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

[Chris_R]

Obviously piracy is the big issue and project restart but there should be no reason they can’t come to a decision after 13 fuckin weeks

 

It seems pretty clear they HAVE come to a decision - Saudi Arabia need to sort their shit out to the PL's satisfaction before they'll approve it.

 

Everyone shouting for the PL to hurry up are missing the point - They PL are now waiting for the Saudis to do enough to satisfy them regarding piracy and IP rights. How can the Premier League hurry this exactly? The only decision faster than this is outright rejection because they cannot accept the Saudi owners at the moment.

 

Just because we haven't been made privy to the details (and again, nor should we be) doesn't mean the PL are all just sat round not sure what to do. It's abundantly clear from the change in direction of the Saudis' behaviour regarding piracy and their recent public crackdowns and attempts to engage legally in IP matters that they're responding to direction from the Premier League. Once the Saudis do enough, it'll be passed. If the Saudis reach a point where they refuse to do more and the PL are still not satisfied, it'll collapse. But either way, I'm not sure how the PL can either hurry up or be accused of incompetence.

[prefabtoon]

Looks like Saudi Arabia’s minister of commerce, Dr. Majid Bin Abdullah Al Qasabi. has put his foot right in it.

In regards to they just had to send an email,

Hope the minister of commerce isn't going to visit the Saudi consulate any time soon. 

[morpeth mag]

If they want to hardball they should postpone UK trade talks etc

[Sho Time]

Obviously piracy is the big issue and project restart but there should be no reason they can’t come to a decision after 13 fuckin weeks

 

It seems pretty clear they HAVE come to a decision - Saudi Arabia need to sort their shit out to the PL's satisfaction before they'll approve it.

 

Everyone shouting for the PL to hurry up are missing the point - They PL are now waiting for the Saudis to do enough to satisfy them regarding piracy and IP rights. How can the Premier League hurry this exactly? The only decision faster than this is outright rejection because they cannot accept the Saudi owners at the moment.

 

Just because we haven't been made privy to the details (and again, nor should we be) doesn't mean the PL are all just sat round not sure what to do. It's abundantly clear from the change in direction of the Saudis' behaviour regarding piracy and their recent public crackdowns and attempts to engage legally in IP matters that they're responding to direction from the Premier League. Once the Saudis do enough, it'll be passed. If the Saudis reach a point where they refuse to do more and the PL are still not satisfied, it'll collapse. But either way, I'm not sure how the PL can either hurry up or be accused of incompetence.

 

I can't pretend to be an expert on the O&D test, however they have not been proven of any wrongdoing despite repeated failed attempts to prove otherwise. I don't see on what solid legal grounds they could be 'failing' at the present moment in time especially given WTO report effectively claimed the Qatari claims were a fallacy and in fact the only thing they were guilty of is 'they could have done more'. And even then the WTO report isn't a court ruling of any kind.

 

Happy to be corrected, but it seems like the PL are pushing their luck with their friends in BeIN behind them hoping to make the situation so awkward they'll just get bored and sack it off.

[Chris_R]

 

But the prospective directors need to have demonstrably done something equivalent to an offence in this country to fail the test. The government not doing enough to prevent piracy is not likely to equate to an offence.

 

I think it's probably quite the opposite, that PIF are happy to go along with what the PL are asking for now, but both they and the PL know that there is no way that a disqualification of the directors would be likely to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

 

MBS is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and the chairman of PIF. In his role as Crown Prince, he's believed complicit in piracy. In his role as chairman of PIF, he's a person likely to be able to influence the direction of the club and therefore counts as a director, named or not, under the terms of the O&Ds' test. I went through this about 2 months ago and was shouted down, yet here we are.

 

It seems the PL are giving the Saudis a window of opportunity to get their house in order to pass the test. That seems more than fair to me, hence the delays, because there wasn't a hope in hell of this passing in its original form. I said that at the time and with the events of the last few weeks I most certainly stand by it now.

 

Everyone screaming how "unfair" it is that it's taking so long, or they're not being kept informed about the workings of confidential deals need to give their heads a shake. We have no right to be kept informed, indeed it would be grossly unprofessional if we WERE kept informed, and the only alternative to a long, drawn-out process would be the deal collapsing. Which of course it still might.

[Chris_R]

If they want to hardball they should postpone UK trade talks etc

 

Yeah, because our Westminster government with its ruined COVID economy, about to be further destroyed by a harsh no-deal Brexit, can withhold trade talks with Saudi Arabia just to let NUFC get new owners. For fucks sake.

[Matt]

It seems pretty clear they HAVE come to a decision - Saudi Arabia need to sort their shit out to the PL's satisfaction before they'll approve it.

 

Exactly, until the answer is yes, the answer is no.

 

Sorry if this has been posted before, but for anyone who wants to pick through the bones of it, the rulebook is here:

 

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2020/06/23/d26d1955-3ffe-4e62-a861-9a4ecf405e0e/2019-20-PL-Handbook-230620.pdf

 

The relevant bits are:

Definition of 'Director' (A.1.56 p83)

O&D test (F, p125-130), especially F.1.5 and F.1.6

Appendix 1 (p415)

 

[mrmojorisin75]

If they want to hardball they should postpone UK trade talks etc

 

Yeah, because our Westminster government with its ruined COVID economy, about to be further destroyed by a harsh no-deal Brexit, can withhold trade talks with Saudi Arabia just to let NUFC get new owners. For fucks sake.

 

he means the saudis play hardball no?

[Chris_R]

Obviously piracy is the big issue and project restart but there should be no reason they can’t come to a decision after 13 fuckin weeks

 

It seems pretty clear they HAVE come to a decision - Saudi Arabia need to sort their shit out to the PL's satisfaction before they'll approve it.

 

Everyone shouting for the PL to hurry up are missing the point - They PL are now waiting for the Saudis to do enough to satisfy them regarding piracy and IP rights. How can the Premier League hurry this exactly? The only decision faster than this is outright rejection because they cannot accept the Saudi owners at the moment.

 

Just because we haven't been made privy to the details (and again, nor should we be) doesn't mean the PL are all just sat round not sure what to do. It's abundantly clear from the change in direction of the Saudis' behaviour regarding piracy and their recent public crackdowns and attempts to engage legally in IP matters that they're responding to direction from the Premier League. Once the Saudis do enough, it'll be passed. If the Saudis reach a point where they refuse to do more and the PL are still not satisfied, it'll collapse. But either way, I'm not sure how the PL can either hurry up or be accused of incompetence.

 

I can't pretend to be an expert on the O&D test, however they have not been proven of any wrongdoing despite repeated failed attempts to prove otherwise. I don't see on what solid legal grounds they could be 'failing' at the present moment in time especially given WTO report effectively claimed the Qatari claims were a fallacy and in fact the only thing they were guilty of is 'they could have done more'. And even then the WTO report isn't a court ruling of any kind.

 

Happy to be corrected, but it seems like the PL are pushing their luck with their friends in BeIN behind them hoping to make the situation so awkward they'll just get bored and sack it off.

 

The Owner and Directors' test explicitly states that nothing has to be proven. Just that the PL have to reasonably believe that something happened.

 

I think every single one of us, if we hold our hands up, reasonably believes that the Saudis at the very least didn't do enough to stop piracy - And were quite possibly in a lot deeper than that! Yet we think the PL should form a different opinion?

[morpeth mag]

If they want to hardball they should postpone UK trade talks etc

 

Yeah, because our Westminster government with its ruined COVID economy, about to be further destroyed by a harsh no-deal Brexit, can withhold trade talks with Saudi Arabia just to let NUFC get new owners. For fucks sake.

To clarify I meant SA should threaten to postpone the trade talks

[Chris_R]

If they want to hardball they should postpone UK trade talks etc

 

Yeah, because our Westminster government with its ruined COVID economy, about to be further destroyed by a harsh no-deal Brexit, can withhold trade talks with Saudi Arabia just to let NUFC get new owners. For fucks sake.

To clarify I meant SA should threaten to postpone the trade talks

 

Fair.

 

Thing is, we're so deeply embedded there. I've stayed on multiple BAe airbases out there. They have all our infrastructure. They're busy with a massive project with BAe now to move loads of stuff to Al Majma'ah as part of the Vision 2030 plan. It would cost the Saudis tens, if not hundreds of billions to stop trading with us and start trading with others.

 

I doubt they'd do this because of NUFC.

[Ikon]

My gut feeling is that we won't find out until the middle of July at the very earliest

[Guest reefatoon]

It will go through the day after the transfer window shuts...The cunts.

[RS]

Been off today Chris?

[Chris_R]

Been off today Chris?

 

Working from home.

 

But today that's mainly involved sitting on hour after hour of voice conferences which have required so much of my attention that I've simultaneously taken the Aztecs to the brink of world domination in Civ 6.

[wormy]

My gut feeling is that we won't find out until the middle of July at the very earliest

 

I want your optimism.

[Ikon]

My gut feeling is that we won't find out until the middle of July at the very earliest

 

I want your optimism.

 

Thats me trying to sound optimistic, but it wouldn't surprise me if this drags on for another month or two

[Jackie Broon]

 

But the prospective directors need to have demonstrably done something equivalent to an offence in this country to fail the test. The government not doing enough to prevent piracy is not likely to equate to an offence.

 

I think it's probably quite the opposite, that PIF are happy to go along with what the PL are asking for now, but both they and the PL know that there is no way that a disqualification of the directors would be likely to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

 

MBS is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and the chairman of PIF. In his role as Crown Prince, he's believed complicit in piracy. In his role as chairman of PIF, he's a person likely to be able to influence the direction of the club and therefore counts as a director, named or not, under the terms of the O&Ds' test. I went through this about 2 months ago and was shouted down, yet here we are.

 

It seems the PL are giving the Saudis a window of opportunity to get their house in order to pass the test. That seems more than fair to me, hence the delays, because there wasn't a hope in hell of this passing in its original form. I said that at the time and with the events of the last few weeks I most certainly stand by it now.

 

Everyone screaming how "unfair" it is that it's taking so long, or they're not being kept informed about the workings of confidential deals need to give their heads a shake. We have no right to be kept informed, indeed it would be grossly unprofessional if we WERE kept informed, and the only alternative to a long, drawn-out process would be the deal collapsing. Which of course it still might.

 

I agree that fairness doesn't come into it, my response was to your assertion that the current position would be rejection.

 

There does not appear to be anything in the WTO report that is likely to equate to an actual offence by the Saudi State or MbS.

 

As far as I can see the cards appear to be stacked very much in PIF's favour because the PL do not seem to have an actual offence to hang disqualification of a director on and, by their rules, should have issued their decision within five working days.

 

My view is that at moment the PL are probably bluffing, knowing that they have a weak hand, trying to get whatever concessions they can, and for now PIF are happy enough to play along.

[Judge Holden]

Fucks sake.

 

[Stifler]

Has a Change petition changed anything anywhere?

[Chris_R]

 

But the prospective directors need to have demonstrably done something equivalent to an offence in this country to fail the test. The government not doing enough to prevent piracy is not likely to equate to an offence.

 

I think it's probably quite the opposite, that PIF are happy to go along with what the PL are asking for now, but both they and the PL know that there is no way that a disqualification of the directors would be likely to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

 

MBS is the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and the chairman of PIF. In his role as Crown Prince, he's believed complicit in piracy. In his role as chairman of PIF, he's a person likely to be able to influence the direction of the club and therefore counts as a director, named or not, under the terms of the O&Ds' test. I went through this about 2 months ago and was shouted down, yet here we are.

 

It seems the PL are giving the Saudis a window of opportunity to get their house in order to pass the test. That seems more than fair to me, hence the delays, because there wasn't a hope in hell of this passing in its original form. I said that at the time and with the events of the last few weeks I most certainly stand by it now.

 

Everyone screaming how "unfair" it is that it's taking so long, or they're not being kept informed about the workings of confidential deals need to give their heads a shake. We have no right to be kept informed, indeed it would be grossly unprofessional if we WERE kept informed, and the only alternative to a long, drawn-out process would be the deal collapsing. Which of course it still might.

 

I agree that fairness doesn't come into it, my response was to your assertion that the current position would be rejection.

 

There does not appear to be anything in the WTO report that is likely to equate to an actual offence by the Saudi State or MbS.

 

As far as I can see the cards appear to be stacked very much in PIF's favour because the PL do not seem to have an actual offence to hang disqualification of a director on and, by their rules, should have issued their decision within five working days.

 

My view is that at moment the PL are probably bluffing, knowing that they have a weak hand, trying to get whatever concessions they can, and for now PIF are happy enough to play along.

 

Well I hope you're right, of course. But I don't see that.

 

The French court case recently ruled that Arabsat, whose main shareholder is Saudi Arabia, were distributing BeOUTQ.

 

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019/06/14/arabsat-is-distributing-beoutq-french-court-rules/

 

The WTO report said that the Saudis didn't do enough to prevent piracy. Apparently the PL tried what, 7, 9 times to contact the Saudis? And were just rebuffed every time. Legal recourse has clearly and deliberately been denied to rights holders by the Saudis.

 

Personally, I don't know where the line is for "reasonable belief" in an offence because I'm not that up on all the relevant international legislation. But for anyone to say with certainty that there's not enough evidence that we couldn't possibly be over that line seems incredibly optimistic, as the only people who could potentially say for certain are employed in such incredibly niche positions that I doubt they're posting on here, and even if they were, they'd have to do months worth of reading and have access to information likely not in the public domain to make an accurate judgement.

 

We have to trust that the PL are looking at this correctly, and that the relevant lawyers interpret it correctly. And that we get the result we want. But I go back to my initial point - People screaming that it's taking too long or they deserve to be informed or that they PL are being unprofessional just come across as whiny children who haven't got their sweets yet. I'm as frustrated as anyone, but I'm fully aware that the grown-ups are still doing their shopping and the sweets only come at the end.

 

Hopefully we get sweets, but screaming for them and having a tantrum in the middle of aisle 8 seldom works.

[mrmojorisin75]

trying to be a little objective about it why are people getting so antsy now, if they approve the takeover tomorrow it's not going to have an impact for the remainder of this season - for me as long as they get it done by the time this season ends latest we're good (ideally earlier but hey ho)

[manorpark]

NOT KNOWING IS THE "NEW NORMAL".

 

I don't know if I could cope without "not knowing" in my life, when I wake up in the morning . .

[Guest godzilla]

Obviously piracy is the big issue and project restart but there should be no reason they can’t come to a decision after 13 fuckin weeks

 

It seems pretty clear they HAVE come to a decision - Saudi Arabia need to sort their s*** out to the PL's satisfaction before they'll approve it.

 

Everyone shouting for the PL to hurry up are missing the point - They PL are now waiting for the Saudis to do enough to satisfy them regarding piracy and IP rights. How can the Premier League hurry this exactly? The only decision faster than this is outright rejection because they cannot accept the Saudi owners at the moment.

 

Just because we haven't been made privy to the details (and again, nor should we be) doesn't mean the PL are all just sat round not sure what to do. It's abundantly clear from the change in direction of the Saudis' behaviour regarding piracy and their recent public crackdowns and attempts to engage legally in IP matters that they're responding to direction from the Premier League. Once the Saudis do enough, it'll be passed. If the Saudis reach a point where they refuse to do more and the PL are still not satisfied, it'll collapse. But either way, I'm not sure how the PL can either hurry up or be accused of incompetence.

 

I can't pretend to be an expert on the O&D test, however they have not been proven of any wrongdoing despite repeated failed attempts to prove otherwise. I don't see on what solid legal grounds they could be 'failing' at the present moment in time especially given WTO report effectively claimed the Qatari claims were a fallacy and in fact the only thing they were guilty of is 'they could have done more'. And even then the WTO report isn't a court ruling of any kind.

 

Happy to be corrected, but it seems like the PL are pushing their luck with their friends in BeIN behind them hoping to make the situation so awkward they'll just get bored and sack it off.

 

The Owner and Directors' test explicitly states that nothing has to be proven. Just that the PL have to reasonably believe that something happened.

 

I think every single one of us, if we hold our hands up, reasonably believes that the Saudis at the very least didn't do enough to stop piracy - And were quite possibly in a lot deeper than that! Yet we think the PL should form a different opinion?

 

And that reasonable opinion has to be based on factual evidence. Not doing enough to stop piracy is not an offence in this country and neither the French court or the WTO report has implicated them in being directly involved in the transmission of piracy within SA.