Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[Rompe]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

[Tiresias]

As i understand it is is much more specific about Mohammed Bin Salman who is director of the investment fund coughing up the money. The consortium had some nominated directors who they said had authority and were running the money for NUFC but the league essentially did not believe that MBS wouldnt have authority over them and thus asked that he go through a fit and proper person test (which I dont know if plausible he would pass). The consortium gave over as I understand it a lot of written guarantees that MBS would not have any say in teh running of it but essentially the league did not believe it, and that was the end of that.

[Darth Crooks]

At the risk of sounding Trumpian. Both sides don’t add up with the info we have. Not necessarily equally mind.

[Scoot]

At the end of the day, whatever the reasons for it collapsing all I will say is, if this same consortium had bid for ANY of the top 6 clubs there is absolutely no way it wouldn't have been approved. It may have taken slightly longer than the 2 to 4 weeks that was mentioned but there is literally no way the premier league would have acted in the same way as they did with us. I'm 100% convinced this.

 

It's a closed shop at the top of the league, everyone else is just expected to be happy to make up the numbers every season.

[Jackie Broon]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

As i understand it is is much more specific about Mohammed Bin Salman who is director of the investment fund coughing up the money. The consortium had some nominated directors who they said had authority and were running the money for NUFC but the league essentially did not believe that MBS wouldnt have authority over them and thus asked that he go through a fit and proper person test (which I dont know if plausible he would pass). The consortium gave over as I understand it a lot of written guarantees that MBS would not have any say in teh running of it but essentially the league did not believe it, and that was the end of that.

 

Well, that wasn't actually the end of that, because they refused to actually make a formal decision on that basis

 

Also, I don't think it's technically correct to say that it's specifically about MbS. The PL have referred to it being an 'entity' that they require to be declared as a director, that entity is likely to be the Saudi State. I think the entity would need to be represented by an individual for the purposes of the test, which could be MbS but wouldn't necessarily have to be.

 

It may seem like common sense that the state would control its sovereign wealth fund, but there have also been legitimate legal opinions given that PIF should be considered to be a legally separate independent entity.

 

However, the issue isn't that the PL came to that conclusion, which they are entitled to do, it's that they took three months to do so and then spent a further month refusing to actually issue a formal decision, that could have been appealed, before PIF finally pulled the plug.

[Thumbheed]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

Think the PL's objections are definitely plausible, but the issue for me is not the merits of their objections but how they dealt with it. 17 weeks to get to that point is ridiculous and the proposed solution to the matter is even worse.

 

If PIF weren't giving accurate information, then there's grounds to reject the deal, so reject it.

[Bimpy474]

I think offering arbitration before a decision has been made, is another unusual step.

[Whitley mag]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

The extra information they wanted was for the state to be subjected to test, whether that was just MBS or the whole govt is open to debate.

 

The consortium argue PIF is a separate entity and should be treated as so. A stand off then ensues for around a month. The consortium maintain they have provided all info as required, however instead of rejecting the takeover the PL find a way of not making any decision by offering arbitration on this one single point of ownership.

 

Now if you believe the PL this was a previously unheralded move and they gave the consortium an olive branch.

 

All very reasonable at face value, however the sting in the tale is this arbitration may have taken 12 months who knows, and they would still have had to take test after this.

 

This is where accusations of them being disingenuous come into play, the consortium at this point had every right to expect PL to make decision based on info they provided. However, the PL allegedly just said where not going to either approve or reject, and where happy to sit here month after month.

 

If the last sentence is true they basically left them with no alternative but to walk away, and as far as I’m concerned this is still the key unanswered question by the PL and why many believe they manipulated this outcome from the start.

 

 

[Happinesstan]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

The extra information they wanted was for the state to be subjected to test, whether that was just MBS or the whole govt is open to debate.

 

The consortium argue PIF is a separate entity and should be treated as so. A stand off then ensues for around a month. The consortium maintain they have provided all info as required, however instead of rejecting the takeover the PL find a way of not making any decision by offering arbitration on this one single point of ownership.

 

Now if you believe the PL this was a previously unheralded move and they gave the consortium an olive branch.

 

All very reasonable at face value, however the sting in the tale is this arbitration may have taken 12 months who knows, and they would still have had to take test after this.

 

This is where accusations of them being disingenuous come into play, the consortium at this point had every right to expect PL to make decision based on info they provided. However, the PL allegedly just said where not going to either approve or reject, and where happy to sit here month after month.

 

If the last sentence is true they basically left them with no alternative but to walk away, and as far as I’m concerned this is still the key unanswered question by the PL and why many believe they manipulated this outcome from the start.

 

If the PL have requested somebody be named and the consortium haven't done that, then they haven't complied with the PL's requests, at all.

[Whitley mag]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

The extra information they wanted was for the state to be subjected to test, whether that was just MBS or the whole govt is open to debate.

 

The consortium argue PIF is a separate entity and should be treated as so. A stand off then ensues for around a month. The consortium maintain they have provided all info as required, however instead of rejecting the takeover the PL find a way of not making any decision by offering arbitration on this one single point of ownership.

 

Now if you believe the PL this was a previously unheralded move and they gave the consortium an olive branch.

 

All very reasonable at face value, however the sting in the tale is this arbitration may have taken 12 months who knows, and they would still have had to take test after this.

 

This is where accusations of them being disingenuous come into play, the consortium at this point had every right to expect PL to make decision based on info they provided. However, the PL allegedly just said where not going to either approve or reject, and where happy to sit here month after month.

 

If the last sentence is true they basically left them with no alternative but to walk away, and as far as I’m concerned this is still the key unanswered question by the PL and why many believe they manipulated this outcome from the start.

 

If the PL have requested somebody be named and the consortium haven't done that, then they haven't complied with the PL's requests, at all.

 

So reject the takeover on insufficient information received ?

[Happinesstan]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

The extra information they wanted was for the state to be subjected to test, whether that was just MBS or the whole govt is open to debate.

 

The consortium argue PIF is a separate entity and should be treated as so. A stand off then ensues for around a month. The consortium maintain they have provided all info as required, however instead of rejecting the takeover the PL find a way of not making any decision by offering arbitration on this one single point of ownership.

 

Now if you believe the PL this was a previously unheralded move and they gave the consortium an olive branch.

 

All very reasonable at face value, however the sting in the tale is this arbitration may have taken 12 months who knows, and they would still have had to take test after this.

 

This is where accusations of them being disingenuous come into play, the consortium at this point had every right to expect PL to make decision based on info they provided. However, the PL allegedly just said where not going to either approve or reject, and where happy to sit here month after month.

 

If the last sentence is true they basically left them with no alternative but to walk away, and as far as I’m concerned this is still the key unanswered question by the PL and why many believe they manipulated this outcome from the start.

 

If the PL have requested somebody be named and the consortium haven't done that, then they haven't complied with the PL's requests, at all.

 

So reject the takeover on insufficient information received ?

 

I'm sure I saw a list of rules [in relation to timeframes, the only timeframes] in which it stated that any request for information should be responded to in 5 days, and if no response is received, a new 5 day period commences.

 

If that is correct, I'm not sure they could do that.

 

 

[Whitley mag]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

The extra information they wanted was for the state to be subjected to test, whether that was just MBS or the whole govt is open to debate.

 

The consortium argue PIF is a separate entity and should be treated as so. A stand off then ensues for around a month. The consortium maintain they have provided all info as required, however instead of rejecting the takeover the PL find a way of not making any decision by offering arbitration on this one single point of ownership.

 

Now if you believe the PL this was a previously unheralded move and they gave the consortium an olive branch.

 

All very reasonable at face value, however the sting in the tale is this arbitration may have taken 12 months who knows, and they would still have had to take test after this.

 

This is where accusations of them being disingenuous come into play, the consortium at this point had every right to expect PL to make decision based on info they provided. However, the PL allegedly just said where not going to either approve or reject, and where happy to sit here month after month.

 

If the last sentence is true they basically left them with no alternative but to walk away, and as far as I’m concerned this is still the key unanswered question by the PL and why many believe they manipulated this outcome from the start.

 

If the PL have requested somebody be named and the consortium haven't done that, then they haven't complied with the PL's requests, at all.

 

So reject the takeover on insufficient information received ?

 

I'm sure I saw a list of rules [in relation to timeframes, the only timeframes] in which it stated that any request for information should be responded to in 5 days, and if no response is received, a new 5 day period commences.

 

If that is correct, I'm not sure they could do that.

 

If the consortium has provided all the information they believe can physically be provided, I would suggest that rule is simply being used as an out then if it is correct. Which again in my view would play into the PL being disingenuous.

 

In relation to this rule I’m sure there’s a couple of resident experts on PL rule book on here who could give their take.

 

But my analogy is if the Duchy wanted to buy us, would the PL be happy with the CEO / Governor  and board of directors to be subjected to test, or would they insist on Prince Charles also being subjected to it ?

 

In my view no they wouldn’t, as quite rightly he would have no involvement in the day to day running of the club. And furthermore their is absolutely no way they would insult a member of our own royal family.

 

[Jackie Broon]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11678/12051917/newcastle-takeover-premier-league-chief-richard-masters-to-face-fan-questions

 

Interesting that according to Masters, the dispute was about who would effectively be controlling NUFC. I think you have to be very naïve to believe the consortiums claim that they would have zero influence over the running of the club.

 

"Masters says the Premier League asked for "additional information, which would have been used to consider" any potential disqualification, but the consortium disagreed with their assessment and withdrew their bid."

 

So is this what it's about? The consortium didn't agree that Saudi Arabia would effectively own NUFC, and thus didn't give the PL the information they asked for.

 

The extra information they wanted was for the state to be subjected to test, whether that was just MBS or the whole govt is open to debate.

 

The consortium argue PIF is a separate entity and should be treated as so. A stand off then ensues for around a month. The consortium maintain they have provided all info as required, however instead of rejecting the takeover the PL find a way of not making any decision by offering arbitration on this one single point of ownership.

 

Now if you believe the PL this was a previously unheralded move and they gave the consortium an olive branch.

 

All very reasonable at face value, however the sting in the tale is this arbitration may have taken 12 months who knows, and they would still have had to take test after this.

 

This is where accusations of them being disingenuous come into play, the consortium at this point had every right to expect PL to make decision based on info they provided. However, the PL allegedly just said where not going to either approve or reject, and where happy to sit here month after month.

 

If the last sentence is true they basically left them with no alternative but to walk away, and as far as I’m concerned this is still the key unanswered question by the PL and why many believe they manipulated this outcome from the start.

 

If the PL have requested somebody be named and the consortium haven't done that, then they haven't complied with the PL's requests, at all.

 

So reject the takeover on insufficient information received ?

 

I'm sure I saw a list of rules [in relation to timeframes, the only timeframes] in which it stated that any request for information should be responded to in 5 days, and if no response is received, a new 5 day period commences.

 

If that is correct, I'm not sure they could do that.

 

 

I don't think that's correct, there is absolutely no provision or process in the rules for requesting further information. The process is this, and only this:

 

A declaration is submitted by the club for each proposed director.

 

The rules state that within five working days of receipt of the declaration the PL board will confirm to the club whether or not he is liable to be disqualified as a director and, if so, will give written notice to the club and person that the proposed director is disqualified.

 

The PL may informally request and allow additional information to be submitted but that is actually not in accordance with the letter of their rules, which require a formal decision to be made on each declaration, which can then be subject to appeal.

[Tiresias]

I don't think anyone thinks the amount of time it took for any information on this to be released was positive. I assume the premier league's position is they are under no obligation to make any step of the process public and they probably want to paint it as the consortium just endlessly sending them documents that were of no help (and not taking up the third party arbitration offered), however I dont think this never actuall reject it is a helpful policy, instead should have said rejected until they submit MBS for a fit and proper test much earlier on.

 

What isn't clear still is the nature of the communications from premier league to consortium as in the early days the consortium seemed convinced they had unofficially heard it was going through without any red flags. Did the premier league only work out who MBS was late in the day? Did they basically decide to ignore it then use it as an excuse to avoid the piracy clusterfuck? It is mentioned how unimpressed the pl were with the saudi reaction to it (basically doubling down) and yet it is not clear whether ultimately that was sufficient to block it by itself (although I do hold that the conspiracy minded people who paint pl as victim of completely unreasonable interference from Bein is nonsense, Bein pay the PL a lot of money, their opinion is always always going to carry weight, try running a big business and ignore your big customers. In the end i thought that would have been overcome ultimately probably in SA coughing up enough money compensation or something).

[RS]

Have PIF not withdrawn their offer?  Is this not finished?  Chron reckons Ashley has fucked off the other 2 plastic offers from team photoshop and Henry the mild mannered janitor.  He’s here forever.

[Tiresias]

It's definitely finished, both the PIF bid, and the club

[mrmojorisin75]

What isn't clear still is the nature of the communications from premier league to consortium as in the early days the consortium seemed convinced they had unofficially heard it was going through without any red flags. Did the premier league only work out who MBS was late in the day? Did they basically decide to ignore it then use it as an excuse to avoid the piracy clusterfuck?

 

yes

 

imo trying to claim the defacto head of state of saudi arabia would in any way be meddling in the affairs of nufc is disingenuous at absolute best and a fucking joke

[54]

[Matt]

But my analogy is if the Duchy wanted to buy us, would the PL be happy with the CEO / Governor  and board of directors to be subjected to test, or would they insist on Prince Charles also being subjected to it ?

 

In my view no they wouldn’t, as quite rightly he would have no involvement in the day to day running of the club. And furthermore their is absolutely no way they would insult a member of our own royal family.

 

Being involved in day-to-day running is not the object of the test. It's all about control which is defined as:

“Control” means the power of a Person to exercise, or to be able to exercise or acquire, direct or indirect control over the policies, affairs and/or management of a

Club, whether that power is constituted by rights or contracts (either separately or in combination) and having regard to the considerations of fact or law involved, and,

without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, Control shall be deemed to include:

 

(a) the power (whether directly or indirectly and whether by the ownership of share capital, by the possession of voting power, by contract or otherwise including without limitation by way of membership of any Concert Party) to appoint and/or remove all or such of the members of the board of directors of the Club as are able to cast a majority of the votes capable of being cast by the members of that board; and/or

 

(b) the holding and/or possession of the beneficial interest in, and/or the ability to exercise the voting rights applicable to, Shares in the Club (whether directly, indirectly (by means of holding such interests in one or more other persons) or by contract including without limitation by way of membership of any Concert Party) which confer in aggregate on the

older(s) thereof 30 per cent or more of the total voting rights exercisable at general meetings of the Club.

 

For the purposes of the above, any rights or powers of a Nominee for any Person or of an Associate of any Person or of a Connected Person to any Person shall be attributed to that Person

 

PIF would have to prove objectively that their governance is entirely separate and outside the influence of MBS/KSA (which is in effect the same thing). I think that is a very hard argument to prove. Why would no Saudi law firm take up the PL in their attempts to combat BeOutQ? How can any Saudi body of wealth (let alone one legally benefiting the state) be independent in the light of MBS' previous actions? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017-19_Saudi_Arabian_purge)

 

So when PIF present a verdict from the Saudi court saying PIF is independent, it really carries zero weight.

 

I'm guessing here, but in my view it is likely the PL made the PIF-MBS connections very quickly (it should take less than a minute if you go on their website- www.pif.gov.sa/en/Pages/Boradmembers.aspx) and the consortium then spent time trying to find various alternate ways around the inevitable, ultimately unsuccessfully.

 

And FWIW, in the example you gave yes Charles would be considered a Director for the purposes of the test unless his ownership was through a sufficiently independent trust structure to convince the PL he would not be able to place influence over the club. It's not uncommon for monarchs to be considered beneficial owners of assets and be subject to financial crime monitoring as anyone else could be- in fact they are usually required to be subject to enhanced measures vs the man in the street.

[UncleBingo]

Have PIF not withdrawn their offer?  Is this not finished?  Chron reckons Ashley has f***ed off the other 2 plastic offers from team photoshop and Henry the mild mannered janitor.  He’s here forever.

 

And seemingly gives even less of a fuck about the club than in previous years, if that were even possible. What a time to be alive.

[Bimpy474]

Have PIF not withdrawn their offer?  Is this not finished?  Chron reckons Ashley has f***ed off the other 2 plastic offers from team photoshop and Henry the mild mannered janitor.  He’s here forever.

 

And seemingly gives even less of a fuck about the club than in previous years, if that were even possible. What a time to be alive.

 

I always wanted to be someone's play thing. I was hoping for a brunette, large welcoming breast and legs that went on forever.

 

Never expected it to be to fat vindictive tosser, who bums you every transfer window.

[Tiresias]

What isn't clear still is the nature of the communications from premier league to consortium as in the early days the consortium seemed convinced they had unofficially heard it was going through without any red flags. Did the premier league only work out who MBS was late in the day? Did they basically decide to ignore it then use it as an excuse to avoid the piracy clusterfuck?

 

yes

 

imo trying to claim the defacto head of state of saudi arabia would in any way be meddling in the affairs of nufc is disingenuous at absolute best and a fucking joke

 

He's literally the chairmen of the investment fund trying to buy us. Even if it's only yes they can have that amount of money that is still 'meddling' isn't it. And even if no he wasn't going to have any say and the guarantees were all above board I can't see how it is unreasonable to assume the person in charge of an investment fund has some kind of say on the investments said fund makes.

[Happinesstan]

I don't think anyone thinks the amount of time it took for any information on this to be released was positive. I assume the premier league's position is they are under no obligation to make any step of the process public and they probably want to paint it as the consortium just endlessly sending them documents that were of no help (and not taking up the third party arbitration offered), however I dont think this never actuall reject it is a helpful policy, instead should have said rejected until they submit MBS for a fit and proper test much earlier on.

 

What isn't clear still is the nature of the communications from premier league to consortium as in the early days the consortium seemed convinced they had unofficially heard it was going through without any red flags. Did the premier league only work out who MBS was late in the day? Did they basically decide to ignore it then use it as an excuse to avoid the piracy clusterfuck? It is mentioned how unimpressed the pl were with the saudi reaction to it (basically doubling down) and yet it is not clear whether ultimately that was sufficient to block it by itself (although I do hold that the conspiracy minded people who paint pl as victim of completely unreasonable interference from Bein is nonsense, Bein pay the PL a lot of money, their opinion is always always going to carry weight, try running a big business and ignore your big customers. In the end i thought that would have been overcome ultimately probably in SA coughing up enough money compensation or something).

 

At what point were these 'unofficial assurances' given? Was it after the bid was submitted? Or was there a preliminary discussion to ascertain the likelihood of success, before wasting their time?

 

I don't believe for one second that there wasn't at least feelers put out in advance. So the consortium have suggested that they want to buy the club, and the PL have said yeah, I don't see a problem with that. But then when they submit the list of directors to be tested, the list is not the same as the one discussed, previously. PL ask them to rectify this and PIF refuse.

[Robster]

 

:lol:

[Bimpy474]

Or as Richard the hairy indicated, his mate, the new premier league chairman who hated the north east, appointed June 1st. Things seemed to have changed from that point.

 

If you believe in conspiracies and such.