Newcastle United 2 - 4 West Ham - 15/08/21 - Post-match reaction from page 18

[Happinesstan]

Empty stadium would mean more room for SD adverts.

The TV companies have already demonstrated that they are prepared with the fake authentic sounds of the crowd.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Happinesstan

[Happinesstan]

33% of marriages end in divorce. I think those that go to get away from the wife have a stronger case. Unless you're not cancelling because the missus love the real housewives of Dunston.

[Rafalove]

Are we the only ones to boo taking the knee

[RS]

We can put this behind us. The result doesn’t count as West Ham are in a “different” league to us. 
 

My concern now is that big 4 on the front of the home shirt is sending subliminal messages to the opposing teams.  

[Guest HTT II]

It was an honour to see us score two goals against one of the teams from the top league.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by HTT II

[The Prophet]

To clarify, when I say taking the knee is working, I mean in do far as its provoking discussion that no other campaign ever really has. Obviously if no action is taken, it'll be as equally pointless.

 

You regularly here those that boo suggesting alternatives. It's because they'd prefer something they can easily ignore.

[et tu brute]

4 hours ago, Happinesstan said:

As somebody whose introduction came in the 80s I can relate to this. That said, I soon stopped going.

I was a season ticket holder for over 40 years until Rafa’s second season. The fact that Ashley continued to underfund the club even when he had a big name manager, was the final straw for me. Bothered me a bit the season after, but now it doesn’t even cross my mind. I won’t be back until new owners with the insight and ambition to invest and improve the club are in charge. Hopefully the legal cases may still see PIF/PCP/Reuben consortium take over. If not, I honestly believe that we will be owned by another Ashley/hedge fund group. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

9 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Prove to me you can then. Are you serious? You think kneeling down and all these silly gestures is going to stop racism? For all you know half of the people kneeling are the same ones that will be online spouting racist nonsense as soon as they are angry enough about something.

 

What you can't stop is angry ignorant people that go about taking their problems out on everyone around them and this is just one of the many ways they do. Most of these people have serious issues in their personal lives and just look for people to lash out at and justify it.

 

There are laws in place to deal with people that commit these offences, so I really don't understand what all this other meaningless guff is all about.

 

I don't really think this argument makes sense. It's highlighting the situation, it's getting people talking about it, it has already worked. It's saying that we acknowledge that racism is a problem and we want to bring it into the open. It's not really meant to reduce racial tension, maybe racial tension needs to increase a bit so that every group can have their voices heard.

 

If your argument is that nothing can improve racism, then I don't quite get it. 

[Yorkie]

4 hours ago, Happinesstan said:

15 hours ago, Yorkie said:

Tedious though it is I don't think you can really blame anyone for venting about matchgoers. Turning your back on everything that goes with supporting NUFC is really painful and upsetting; and the vast majority in the ground today devalue that sacrifice. 

 

I do think we collectively need to try and reduce being wound up by it though, cos it's a pointless waste of emotion at this point. The battle to get fans to resist en masse is very much lost. 

Fucking hell. It's my decision and my sacrifice. Demanding everybody respects your sacrifice is as precious as it gets.

 

That's not what I said. I said devalue, not disrespect.

 

But tbh on reflection I don't think my post was accurate really. Painful and upsetting is right but I doubt many who gave up season tickets, for instance, did so with any expectation that the seat would stay empty in perpetuity, like some symbol of defiance. The word 'sacrifice' probably isn't even right; I don't go because I have no reason to. 

[Happinesstan]

8 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I don't really think this argument makes sense. It's highlighting the situation, it's getting people talking about it, it has already worked. It's saying that we acknowledge that racism is a problem and we want to bring it into the open. It's not really meant to reduce racial tension, maybe racial tension needs to increase a bit so that every group can have their voices heard.

 

If your argument is that nothing can improve racism, then I don't quite get it. 

I've got to be honest I've always questioned the value of taking the knee in football, in England. Would never boo it, but I just thought it was an empty gesture. Then I watched a clip of Willock and his parents, they seemed isolated and uncomfortable [maybe just my imagination] and couldn't help worry that their concern was a result of the booing. Massively relieved to see his mum enjoying herself at 2-1. Also massively relieved to hear that the applause at the end of the TOTK outdid the boos.

 

I genuinely don't think [the majority of] people are booing the gesture because they support racism, I think they're just misguided in their protests.

 

Edit: But yeah. I'm fully behind it now. as you say it's got people talking and it's provoked a few arseholes to reveal themselves.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Happinesstan

[ToonArmy1892]

I don't go because i feel like it's the right thing to do with an owner who takes the piss, whether someone takes my seat or not, is another thing.

 

You've just got to stand by your convictions.

 

Do what you think is right.

 

Anyway, big crowd though it was it wasn't a sell out.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToonArmy1892

[Happinesstan]

11 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

That's not what I said. I said devalue, not disrespect.

 

But tbh on reflection I don't think my post was accurate really. Painful and upsetting is right but I doubt many who gave up season tickets, for instance, did so with any expectation that the seat would stay empty in perpetuity, like some symbol of defiance. The word 'sacrifice' probably isn't even right; I don't go because I have no reason to. 

Devalue or disrespect, same thing really.

 

In fairness though, I agree that you can't blame people. But only because I know I've done it myself. 

[mrmojorisin75]

 

 

Yeah I mean what do people expect when they consider if something is working, that all the racists would look at them kneeling and change their ways?

 

It's doing a great job actually, better than I expected precisely because they racists that don't want to be thought of as racist are so against it.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by mrmojorisin75

[KaKa]

35 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I don't really think this argument makes sense. It's highlighting the situation, it's getting people talking about it, it has already worked. It's saying that we acknowledge that racism is a problem and we want to bring it into the open. It's not really meant to reduce racial tension, maybe racial tension needs to increase a bit so that every group can have their voices heard.

 

If your argument is that nothing can improve racism, then I don't quite get it. 

 

All sounds really nice. At the end of the day though, in a few months we'll have another stadium making monkey noises or more players getting abuse on social media.

 

Another big fuss will be made about how awful it is and maybe we'll progress from kneeling to having everyone lay completely prostrate on the floor to encourage even more acknowledgement and discussion to bring it out into the open further.

 

And from what I can see all that comes from this is that now people can argue more back and forth accusing this and the other of being racist over whether they boo the kneeling, which completely trivialises the real prejudice people face in reality.

 

It's all a complete farce. I would encourage anyone that is a minority group to save themselves and learn how to overcome this bullshit for their own well being. Never allow anyone to use this nonsense to get a rise out of you and feel any lesser about who you are.

 

[ToonArmy1892]

28 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

 

Also quelle surprise ToonArmy doesn’t think kneeling is a good idea, I’m shocked. 

So what, are you calling me racist?

 

You're a daft lad you like, think you're an expert on everything and take snide shots at people who don't agree with you.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by ToonArmy1892

[Wullie]

"Our two best players and our new £20m signing are black, hope they feel welcome and want to stay for a long time. Say, the players are about to make an anti racism gesture for two whole seconds, I've got a good idea..."

[KaKa]

15 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Obviously I can’t speak to the experience of black people, and Kaka has a more lived experience than me, but his argument strikes me as one from a position of privilege. Sure you can surround yourself with decent people and move on, but not everyone can. There will be plenty of people out there having to deal with shitty racist cunts. That’s the reality. Of course one gesture doesn’t “stop racism”, but what the hell so let’s not do anything at all, to try and stop any societal ill because it won’t eradicate the problem.

 

Also quelle surprise ToonArmy doesn’t think kneeling is a good idea, I’m shocked. 

 

Are there not laws now in place to punish people for these offences? Let the authorities focus on that.

 

All this other stuff is just complete nonsense and is now just causing more palava with people now trivialising racism to whether or not folks boo players kneeling. Do you really expect me to believe everyone that applauds that kneeling is not carrying on a completely different way in private? No chance.

[ToonArmy1892]

7 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

Did I call you racist? Don’t think so. Just not surprised there would be a crossover between anti vaxx/not supporting taking the knee.

 

Damn, daft lad, hurtful. Also that’s great, please feel free to not respond to anything I say.

Put me on ignore then if you are so bothered about my comments that you have to get petty.

[KaKa]

Just now, ManDoon said:

Did I call you racist? Don’t think so. Just not surprised there would be a crossover between anti vaxx/not supporting taking the knee.

 

Damn, daft lad, hurtful. Also that’s great, please feel free to not respond to anything I say.

 

I've seen a few comments on here in this sort of vein now, and honestly I just feel like black folks are being used as pawns in a larger political debate that is happening in society now, and honestly that just sucks, and it is really unfortunate.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Just seen that little weasel Darren Grimes went, said he booed the knee and also wore one black and one white trainer the zany little thundercunt

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, ManDoon said:

Of course there are yeah, but I mean I still don’t think that means we shouldn’t have any symbolic gestures. And no I don’t believe that but I don’t really see your point. Nothing ever works 100 percent so let’s not bother with it? 
 

Imo it’s good to highlight issues in society because it keeps them at the forefront of public consciousness. It also outs the racists booing it. We can both have laws and also have gestures such a kneeling. 

 

Okay, so let's assume everyone stops booing this gesture. So what? All sorted now then? All it really means is that they're just going along with it in public. It's a completely empty meaningless process.

 

As soon as they're hidden online or a part of a big enough crowd it will be the same stuff we've seen for decades now. Decades.

[Happinesstan]

11 minutes ago, Wullie said:

"Our two best players and our new £20m signing are black, hope they feel welcome and want to stay for a long time. Say, the players are about to make an anti racism gesture for two whole seconds, I've got a good idea..."

You could always take the respect for our players that happen to be black as a sure sign tat the booing isn't because of racism. There probably are one or two racists in the pack but I'm certain [for the majority] it's a political statement. Without doubt, it's not the place for it, and if the guilty parties get banned for life they will be no loss.

[RS]

Racists are predominantly uneducated, of limited intelligence or are easily led by others. (Often all of the above)

 

it will take generations to change this (if at all). You only need to look at religion as a guide to the stupidity of humans. 
 

In reality there’s only two types of people in this world:  Nice people and arseholes.  

[Happinesstan]

1 minute ago, RS said:

Racists are predominantly uneducated, of limited intelligence or are easily led by others. (Often all of the above)

 

it will take generations to change this (if at all). You only need to look at religion as a guide to the stupidity of humans. 
 

In reality there’s only two types of people in this world:  Nice people and arseholes.  

Oh come on. It's been changing over the generations. We're a world away from the late 70s/early 80s. Look at the past when looking to the future.

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

I specially remember hearing a conversation on a bus when I was teenager of two lads lamenting the fact they couldn’t go “paki bashing”

anymore. So I do think having public awareness of issues is good because you wouldn't hear that conversation today.
 

Whoever they were targeting doesn’t have the choice of moving on, or not letting it affect them because they are gonna get violently attacked for no reason. It’s not that simple. That was a regular sentiment in the midlands in the early 2000s 

 

There's a post on here about how folks were hearing people being openly racist in the pub after the England loss on penalties. This kind of talk is still alive and well in my opinion. So this stuff still goes on to varying degrees.

 

Ultimately, where we differ in opinion is that you believe that having people be less open in the way they might express these things means some progress is being made. I don't agree though, ultimately they still feel the same way and still teach their kids the same thing, and are just now more sly about it, which in some ways is even more concerning.