RS Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Happinesstan said: Oh come on. It's been changing over the generations. We're a world away from the late 70s/early 80s. Look at the past when looking to the future. Are we? I’d agree it’s changing but why are we still talking about it if we were a “world away”. It’s still here. It’s still massive and it looks like it’s here for generations to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Hope JonnyB's head isn't too sore this morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 minute ago, RS said: Are we? I’d agree it’s changing but why are we still talking about it if we were a “world away”. It’s still here. It’s still massive and it looks like it’s here for generations to come. I think we are. We have two generations that have grown up in an environment focussed on eradicating racism. In the 70s/80s people were coming from an era of tolerance. Parents in those times were more tolerant of their own parents' hatred of the other because they had fought in wars against the others that they hated. I, personally, can still excuse my Grandad for referring to the Japanese as Japs, for example. Doesn't mean I do the same, as I have no reason to do so, and I will always remind his daughter of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, RS said: Are we? I’d agree it’s changing but why are we still talking about it if we were a “world away”. It’s still here. It’s still massive and it looks like it’s here for generations to come. It has always been simple, it still is, and it always will be, unforunately. It is a permanent 'human weakness' called Bigotry. So many people, so very many people, get plain straightforward pleasure out of bigotry, so they will never give it up. The dictionary definition of bigotry explains it all, and our "big three" fun-filled bigotries have remained the same all throughout my lifetime . . (1) Racial Bigotry (2) Sexual Bigotry (3) Religious Bigotry. People love it all so much, and while the emphasis may superficially change from time to time, as a species we will never give them up. Edited August 16, 2021 by manorpark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, ManDoon said: That’s fair, I’m not saying I don’t think it is still openly expressed it definitely is but I mean from a harm reduction standpoint it’s better than even if people have those sort of beliefs, in a decent society they can’t express them openly or harmfully. I think also there might be some who feel the reaction from those around them as a rejection of those beliefs and begin to question it. There will of course alway be racists, ultimately education and socializing with people is the only way to really prevent that but I don’t think any attempt is therefore useless. Newcastle is honestly one of the most inclusive cities I’ve ever lived in, from my own experience things have changed significantly over the years in other parts of the country. It would be unheard of for someone to be openly gay at school, but now it’s totally different, and that’s through public conversation and discourse. The laws didn’t change. So I think it is possible to make progress for sure. I hear you, and the bit in bold I certainly agree with most. I think we all just have to be more patient with each other. I think over time familiarity with different people is ultimately what helps change these sorts of views if anything ever will. It's certainly going to come with a lot of growing pains in the meantime though. In the immediate I don't think it's at all helpful when people start accusing others of being racist so lightly over the more trivial things, as this engenders more divisiveness and ill will. I think we really need to try and move away from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishops Finger Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, reefatoon said: Hope JonnyB's head isn't too sore this morning. I fucking do coz he had mine battered last night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I hesitate to engage because racism in Australian culture is different from racism in the UK (or US). We have our own right-wing culture warrior fuckwits, but whenever I see the UK or US equivalent, I know I'm missing historical and cultural context. Even so, it strikes me that the original message of taking the knee - which was explicitly "No room for racism in football" - has been hijacked by right-wing cultural warrior fuckwits who have been allowed to rebrand anti-racism as Marxism. It shouldn't fall on black players to explain why racism is bad, but I'd have thought Wilson and Saint-Maximin (ie very popular players), via the club's social media, saying something like "Booing us taking the knee is cheering for racism" might refocus the message. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 It’s mad people can get so worked up by something as simple as taking the knee. I often think football goes too far in acknowledging different political topics, but racism is a very active issue in football. So I see no issue with it being forced down people’s throats at any/every opportunity to deliver the message. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 29 minutes ago, Raconteur said: I hesitate to engage because racism in Australian culture is different from racism in the UK (or US). We have our own right-wing culture warrior fuckwits, but whenever I see the UK or US equivalent, I know I'm missing historical and cultural context. Even so, it strikes me that the original message of taking the knee - which was explicitly "No room for racism in football" - has been hijacked by right-wing cultural warrior fuckwits who have been allowed to rebrand anti-racism as Marxism. It shouldn't fall on black players to explain why racism is bad, but I'd have thought Wilson and Saint-Maximin (ie very popular players), via the club's social media, saying something like "Booing us taking the knee is cheering for racism" might refocus the message. Great post. not to go too far off topic but it’s a tried and tested tactic of the right to label everything they disagree with as Marxist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 On the taking of the knee, my good friend who is Geordie and black says it’s not part of or shouldn’t be part of say BLM, but for him it’s a non violent two fingers up to all the racist cunts out there. As a white man I can’t have any say on what it should or shouldn’t mean, all I am in agreement with is the message is clear, racism and racists can go and fuck off, the set of cunts. That’s my take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Great post. not to go too far off topic but it’s a tried and tested tactic of the right to label everything they disagree with as Marxist. Where did the whole Marxism even come from in relation to BLM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, KaKa said: All sounds really nice. At the end of the day though, in a few months we'll have another stadium making monkey noises or more players getting abuse on social media. Another big fuss will be made about how awful it is and maybe we'll progress from kneeling to having everyone lay completely prostrate on the floor to encourage even more acknowledgement and discussion to bring it out into the open further. And from what I can see all that comes from this is that now people can argue more back and forth accusing this and the other of being racist over whether they boo the kneeling, which completely trivialises the real prejudice people face in reality. It's all a complete farce. I would encourage anyone that is a minority group to save themselves and learn how to overcome this bullshit for their own well being. Never allow anyone to use this nonsense to get a rise out of you and feel any lesser about who you are. I’m not sure I fully understand where you’re coming from. Of course there will still be racism in the future, all we can do is look for progress. And maybe people will debate the gesture and object to it, as they do to anything that demands change, thought or threatens the status quo. I just don’t see why that means it isn’t worthwhile. Speaking as a white person who thought they knew a fair bit, there are many dimensions to the race issue that I wasn’t aware of before Black Lives Matter made me look into anti-racism in much more detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: I’m not sure I fully understand where you’re coming from. Of course there will still be racism in the future, all we can do is look for progress. And maybe people will debate the gesture and object to it, as they do to anything that demands change, thought or threatens the status quo. I just don’t see why that means it isn’t worthwhile. Speaking as a white person who thought they knew a fair bit, there are many dimensions to the race issue that I wasn’t aware of before Black Lives Matter made me look into anti-racism in much more detail. Okay, but I'm assuming you were never racist in the first place. The kind of people that hold these kinds of views are completely uninterested in these sorts of gestures, and if anything revel in all the fuss that comes about from it, and can't wait for the next chance to carry on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Where did the whole Marxism even come from in relation to BLM? If I'm not mistaken, it's linked to the political head of the BLM movement in the US, some if the individuals involved are from a left wing background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 minute ago, KaKa said: Okay, but I'm assuming you were never racist in the first place. The kind of people that hold these kinds of views are completely uninterested in these sorts of gestures, and if anything revel in all the fuss that comes about from it, and can't wait for the next chance to carry on. Well I'm not white, but I still feel thoroughly embarrassed when it's our fans booing the knee gesture. The north east is already probably pigeon-holed as more racist than the south, it's not great when we have these arseholes confirming it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadtillten Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 22 hours ago, Thomson Mouse said: Booing taking the knee, shameful I was at the match and was quite supprised at the fact there were quite a few booing. It's about time the racial scumbags were given the boot ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) For me personally I would never presume or label people racist based on booing the knee, that is a very serious accusation to make and carries a lot of weight man. People really need to be careful with that. Think it is seriously trivializing things. And as I mentioned previously just because someone is behind the kneeling that doesn't mean they are not doing something completely different behind closed doors. Hence why I can't take the backing of the kneeling seriously at all. Edited August 16, 2021 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 In general it’s not helpful to label people racist anyway. They’re doing a racist thing, saying a racist thing, supporting a racist policy - in the moment. Anyone can do that and do something fine the next time. Better to consider the individual incident. I’m aware I’ve done the opposite myself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, The Prophet said: If I'm not mistaken, it's linked to the political head of the BLM movement in the US, some if the individuals involved are from a left wing background. Yes - but whats that got to do with Marxism? Thats not a dig at you, more the link itself between BLM and Marxism. Marxism as I understand it (which is very little) is about class and economics?? Broader than simply left vs right?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Nah they are racists cunts like, if you weren’t that way inclined it wouldn’t bother you at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, HTT II said: Nah they are racists cunts like, if you weren’t that way inclined it wouldn’t bother you at all. From what I can see the whole thing has become massively politicized and is seemingly used as a way to identify which way people lean politically. And this is now leading to a whole different argument and fight altogether. It's a complete and utter mess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Yes - but whats that got to do with Marxism? Thats not a dig at you, more the link itself between BLM and Marxism. Marxism as I understand it (which is very little) is about class and economics?? Broader than simply left vs right?? One of the leaders of BLM in the US was seen to describe herself as a Marxist I think, which is immediately taken alongside 'defund the police' and applied to taking the knee in this country because when they started taking a knee after the restart of football in 19-20 the players wore 'Black Lives Matter' on their shirts. Its unbelievably shortsighted bollocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh74 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Plays 5 defenders and we still concede 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Just now, sh74 said: Plays 5 defenders and we still concede 4. Murphy and Ritchie aren't defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh74 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 The formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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