The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[triggs]

How does a football journalist ask the powers that be? Howe is essentially the face of Newcastle Utd. He's forced to do a press conference twice a week, nobody else is

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Wullie said:

 

But you're comparing two different cohorts of each there I think.

 

A journalist who goes to the WC, covers the football but also writes critical pieces about the hosts etc,

 

You're comparing that example with a football fan, in my post from earlier, who wants the Saudi money but won't entertain any criticism of them and in fact will actively go to bat for them. That's not a reasonable comparison with the kinds of journalists I mentioned.

 

I do mean it as a like-for-like comparison of the bit in bold. As in, our fans who might condemn the Saudis but will go through whatever thought process they need to to justify it to themselves because they don't want to make the sacrifice of not supporting Newcastle. Me and a fair few of us basically  

 

The thing that sticks in people's throats I think is that someone like Delaney thinks others should make sacrifices, but either doesn't seem to have done any self-reflection on the things he's unwilling to sacrifice, or has decided that his reasons are justifiable (hence the having a cake and eating it part), while our reasons aren't. 
 

[Guest HTT II]

3 minutes ago, triggs said:

How does a football journalist ask the powers that be? Howe is essentially the face of Newcastle Utd. He's forced to do a press conference twice a week, nobody else is

He’s the face of a football club, not Saudi Arabia. Or world-wide politics, or UNICEF, or Isis, or whatever. Again I am happy for anyone to ask questions, but if you are going to ask a Eddie Howe, ask every manager, every owner, every person responsible for the governance of our game that allows PIF to buy our club, our politicians who allow PIF to invest in our country etc. 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by HTT II

[triggs]

Just now, HTT II said:

He’s the face of a football club, not Saudi Arabia. Or world world-politics, or UNICEF, or Isis, or whatever. Again I am happy for anyone to ask questions, but if you are going to ask a Eddie Howe, ask every manager, every owner, every person responsible for the governance of our game that allows PIF to buy our club, our politicians who allow PIF to invest in our country etc. 

Why would you ask every manager? Eddie Howe is the manager of the team owned by Saudi Arabia. 

 

The rest of those people should be asked but they aren't obliged to sit in a press conference or respond to a journalist's request for an interview so it's difficult to ask them. Politicians should absolutely be grilled about it but not sure how a football journalist does that

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, triggs said:

How does a football journalist ask the powers that be? Howe is essentially the face of Newcastle Utd. He's forced to do a press conference twice a week, nobody else is

 

I would say that situation and how we got here is more of a concern than anything. Reminds me of how comedians became more competent political commentators than the media. 

[Guest HTT II]

I’ll put it like this regarding how journos and reporters are asking questions of fans and managers, would a reporter ask a random Muslim to condemn Isis or terrorism, what has it got to do with them? I know Howe is the manager of a football club that is owned by PIF and we are supporters of that club, but it has nothing to do with me or Howe what happens in SA or anywhere else.

 

He can, we all can, be for or against or remain totally neutral on such issues, and they are asking the right questions which is right, but to the wrong people which is wrong and that’s what pisses me off and where the real issue here lies with the hypocrisy, double standards and blatant bull shit.
 

They don’t give a fuck who owns Chelsea or rather how bad a person Abramovic was, it’s only now because of the Ukraine situation they are having their say, again it’s about being seen to be doing something…

[Guest HTT II]

3 minutes ago, triggs said:

Why would you ask every manager? Eddie Howe is the manager of the team owned by Saudi Arabia. 

 

The rest of those people should be asked but they aren't obliged to sit in a press conference or respond to a journalist's request for an interview so it's difficult to ask them. Politicians should absolutely be grilled about it but not sure how a football journalist does that

And he’s not obliged to reply to some questions these very same people will not ask of others, ideally the very people they should be, just because he’s the manager of NUFC. Let’s go and ask every fan, every player, every ex player… or do you know what, let’s ask questions of SA, our government, the FA, the PL…

[triggs]

1 minute ago, HTT II said:

I’ll put it like this regarding how journos and reporters are asking questions of fans and managers, would a reporter ask a random Muslim to condemn Isis or terrorism, what has it got to do with them? I know Howe is the manager of a football club that is owned by PIF and we are supporters of that club, but it has nothing to do with me or Howe what happens in SA or anywhere else.

 

He can, we all can, be for or against or remain totally neutral on such issues, and they are asking the right questions which is right, but to the wrong people which is wrong and that’s what pisses me off and where the real issue here lies with the hypocrisy, double standards and blatant bull shit.
 

They don’t give a fuck who owns Chelsea or rather how bad a person Abramovic was, it’s only now because of the Ukraine situation they are having their say, again it’s about being seen to be doing something…

Howe is not some "random Muslim" though. Really bad analogy. He took a very public facing job which he knew was working for Saudi Arabia 

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, triggs said:

Howe is not some "random Muslim" though. Really bad analogy. He took a very public facing job which he knew was working for Saudi Arabia 

He’s a random guy working in a sport in an industry that is dominated and owned by bad people, corrupt people, gangsters, states, he’s very much random in the greater scheme of this now political football. As we are as fans. It’s not on him or us to answer to reporters and journos whose questions are false in the extreme to satisfy next Friday’s fish and chip shop wrapper. Go and put your questions to the REAL people in all of this who should be answering those questions and we might get somewhere…

[TRon]

This just makes me appreciate Howe dead-batting the questions even more. Must be really infuriating for those who don't like the idea of NUFC being on the up and richer than the super clubs.

[triggs]

Just now, HTT II said:

He’s a random guy working in a sport in an industry that is dominated and owned by bad people, corrupt people, gangsters, states, he’s very much random in the greater scheme of this now political football. As we are as fans. It’s not on him or us to answer to reporters and journos whose questions are false in the extreme to satisfy next Friday’s fish and chip shop wrapper. Go and put your questions to the REAL people in all of this who should be answering those questions and we might get somewhere…

How is he a random guy?

 

He took a job working for Saudi Arabia. Fair enough if he doesn't want to respond but its fair that he gets asked his thoughts.

 

As I've already said football journalists can't put their questions to the people who should really be answering these questions.

[Wullie]

If you're still digging your heels in and maintaining that questions about Saudi executions are ultimately grounded in a hatred and jealousy of Newcastle United as a football team, you need to get some help for your severe paranoia.

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, triggs said:

How is he a random guy?

 

He took a job working for Saudi Arabia. Fair enough if he doesn't want to respond but its fair that he gets asked his thoughts.

 

As I've already said football journalists can't put their questions to the people who should really be answering these questions.

He doesn’t work for SA man FFS, that’s like saying I am a customer of SA or work for them because I watch my club. Don’t get me wrong I know what you’re saying or getting at, but I don’t see it the way you do or think of it in that whole context… sorry!

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, triggs said:

As I've already said football journalists can't put their questions to the people who should really be answering these questions.

But they aren’t or haven’t been, asking some lame duck manager or some fan of a club owned by some cunts? Where were they when Abramovic first took over, where were they a few weeks back asking him these questions, the FA, the PL, our PM and other clubs with questionable links/ownership?

[triggs]

2 minutes ago, HTT II said:

He doesn’t work for SA man FFS, that’s like saying I am a customer of SA or work for them because I watch my club. Don’t get me wrong I know what you’re saying or getting at, but I don’t see it the way you do or think of it in that whole context… sorry!

You literally don't work for SA, Eddie Howe does. If you work for an entity owned by the Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund then you work for Saudi Arabia

[The Prophet]

For what it's worth, my personal dislike of Delaney, doesn't make his questions or critiques any less valid.

 

Sportswashing, the ownership of football clubs and the integrity of the game are massive issues in the sport, that should feature regularly in discourse.

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, The Prophet said:

For what it's worth, my personal dislike of Delaney, doesn't make his questions or critiques any less valid.

 

Sportswashing, the ownership of football clubs and the integrity of the game are massive issues in the sport, that should feature regularly in discourse.

But to the right people and to hold the, accountable…

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, triggs said:

You literally don't work for SA, Eddie Howe does. If you work for an entity owned by the Saudi Arabian Public Investment Fund then you work for Saudi Arabia

He doesn’t, he works for Newcastle United, maybe next they should be asking the stewards on match day or the police or the tea lady about executions, gay rights, human rights, war, aliens, the pedestrianisation of Norwich…

[triggs]

1 minute ago, HTT II said:

He doesn’t, he works for Newcastle United, maybe next they should be asking the stewards on match day or the police or the tea lady about executions, gay rights, human rights, war, aliens, the pedestrianisation of Norwich…

Newcastle Utd are owned by Saudi Arabia so he works for Saudi Arabia. Bit of a difference between a millionaire manager and a tea lady or steward

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, triggs said:

Newcastle Utd are owned by Saudi Arabia so he works for Saudi Arabia. Bit of a difference between a millionaire manager and a tea lady or steward

No difference in terms of being qualified to answer the questions being put to Howe tbh.

[Guest HTT II]

7 minutes ago, triggs said:

Newcastle Utd are owned by Saudi Arabia so he works for Saudi Arabia. Bit of a difference between a millionaire manager and a tea lady or steward

You can’t have it both ways, if NUFC employ the tea lady or the police or stewards on a match day are they not working for SA too? Do you consider the players work for SA and some of my mates’ 8/9 year olds who although don’t draw a salary, are effectively employed by NUFC to play for their under 8/9s teams? A contract that means they can’t even play for another team or their school?

[Chris_R]

4 minutes ago, triggs said:

Newcastle Utd are owned by Saudi Arabia so he works for Saudi Arabia. Bit of a difference between a millionaire manager and a tea lady or steward

 

Wrong. Newcastle United are part owned by the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia, which is not "Saudi Arabia". For example, absolutely nobody has ever been executed by PIF.

 

Sure, there's links in terms of personnel, but they're not the same organisation. One is not responsible for the actions of the other.

 

That's not to say we should not have some very strong conversations around our ownership, we absolutely should because of those links in personnel. But let's avoid inaccurate statements like "Newcastle United are owned by Saudi Arabia" because it's simply not true.

[Chris_R]

25 minutes ago, TRon said:

This just makes me appreciate Howe dead-batting the questions even more. Must be really infuriating for those who don't like the idea of NUFC being on the up and richer than the super clubs.

 

Agree with this.

The moment he answers even one question- however inoccuous - he's opened the door. It's a slippery slope and journalists will hound him to trip himself up and criticise the owners of NUFC, which as an employee you really cannot do. If I publicly criticsed my company owners, I'd expect to have my contract terminated. You just don't go there.

 

Best course is the one he's walking now, just refuse to answer anything non-football related. Just keep playing everything with a straight bat, completely consistently. Don't even open the door a crack.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

35 minutes ago, triggs said:

How is he a random guy?

 

He took a job working for Saudi Arabia. Fair enough if he doesn't want to respond but its fair that he gets asked his thoughts.

 

As I've already said football journalists can't put their questions to the people who should really be answering these questions.

 

Persevere. I've been a reporter myself, albeit on a local level. Just because your first email is ignored or a press officer says "nah not doin that m8", you don't give up. Hammer on at the Premier League, the FA, Tracey Crouch. They work for organisations where colleagues working in other specialist areas will have contacts. Set out why you want to speak to them, don't go in being immediately critical, offer them the opportunity to clarify their stance. It's in the public interest.

 

Look at the brilliant work the late Andrew Jennings did to uncover corruption within Fifa. The likes of Delaney, Holt and Glendinning are miles behind him.

 

Heck, even Caulkin forked out on shares in Sports Direct from his own pocket to try and put questions directly to Mike Ashley.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by WarrenBartonCentrePartin

[Guest HTT II]

How about our ladies team, my mates’ business who is employed by NUFC to carry out various services, my mate who coaches for NUFC (for a wage) or NUFC foundation staff? Let’s ask Paula who sends emails out to parents inviting their kids to join a Foundation footy camp what she thinks about the execution of 81 people, she’s on what 8k a year part-time, been in the job 15 years.
 

Aye, let’s bestow on her the kind of questions not asked of our leaders, the Premier League, the FA, all those investors in PIF and the people who run, own or are part of the domestic and global companies PIF has shares or interests in and of course, the leaders of Saudi Arabia itself.

 

And let’s just start asking the citizens of SA too. I know people from SA and many Arab people and it’s offensive when they are all tarred with the ‘belonging to a murderous regime’ with ‘blood on their hands’ narrative in the same way it’s offensive to a Muslim to be asked to condemn or explain the actions of Isis and its offensive to Eddie fucking Howe, a decent human being.
 

It’s offensive to me too that I’m now being morally criticised or questioned or feel I am all because I support a club who the powers that be have allowed some cunts to buy, own and operate it, especially when it was previously OK for Abramovic to buy success for 20 years and no-one gave a fuck about his links, past, money or other stuff.
 

That and everyone else gets a free ride. But it’s the hot topic right now, we have to ask… the same people will ask Jack shit of anyone else and take a pay day just like Howe or Paula or the police or stewards on a match day or little old me content by cheering us on against Chelski…

 

Least they get paid, I fucking don’t. Can I have some of that Saudi money?!

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by HTT II