The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[geordiesteve710]

Just now, Smal said:

I don’t have that “I’ve got my club back” feeling that others have.

 

I agree with this. Honestly don't think we have "got our club back" at all- it's still owned by rich people who can do what the fuck they want with it. Nothing particularly unusual with that in the PL at all of course, just think football doesn't belong to fans anymore. Hopefully that feeling will change if they start to engage with fans properly / put a fan representative on the board.

[marki]

i dont like this thread goodbye

[UncleBingo]

1 minute ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Well that's me told 

Honestly man, if you cannot have an adult conversation about a genuine issue with out telling people to FO, why bother?

 

 

[Abacus]

It's an odd one. Whenever I'm asked about this, I tend to say I'm a bit conflicted.

 

But I'm not conflicted at all and I've realised I've just been lying to make myself look good.

 

I did not go to bed on Thursday night fretting about Saudi Arabia one bit is the honest truth.

 

Likewise, I'm not going to get drawn into justifying them either, or lobbying to change how a foreign country runs itself.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

Just now, UncleBingo said:

Honestly man, if you cannot have an adult conversation about a genuine issue with out telling people to FO, why bother?

 

 

A genuine issue to you who's trying to enforce your views on anyone who will listen ?

Its not relevant to me, im clearly not as educated as you on these things which tbh Im absolutely delighted about, got far more pressing things to do with my time which is why I wrote what I did so don't try & tell me how to think


& im not your pal so FO

[Si]

It's fascinating to see the people that were slating the premier league as not fit for purpose, being corrupt and in the pocket of the top six etc now saying "well if the premier league says it's not Saudi Arabia buying us but a company then that'll do for me"

 

You can be ok about it, not ok about it and every variation in between but the hypocrisy around the comments saying if the government do business with them, if the premier league say it's fine from people is wrong. They own us enjoy it or don't but don't hide behind the premier league and the government. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Has anyone asked your average Saudi what they make of this.

 

There’s every chance they are fucking loving it, for all we know they might have had Dire Straits booming out downtown Riyadh last night.

 

They have their culture and the western world is arrogant to presume they should live like we do.

 

Personally speaking there is a lot to like about Middle Eastern culture, the Dubai metro is immaculate you can’t even eat or drink on it.

 

Compare that to the yobs who graffiti and vandalise our metro. They wouldn’t fucking dare do that over there.

 

I find the folk over there respectful, sophisticated and friendly.

 

Lets not presume things we have no idea about. Everything might not be perfect over there, but it’s certainly not a perfect world over here either.

 

Enjoy the ride, if you have concerns fine but don’t beat yourself up would be my advice.

 

 

 

Saw a video on Twitter of a couple of Saudis at the Saudi Arabia v Japan game wearing Newcastle shirts on Thursday night.

[UncleBingo]

22 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

A genuine issue to you who's trying to enforce your views on anyone who will listen ?

Its not relevant to me, im clearly not as educated as you on these things which tbh Im absolutely delighted about, got far more pressing things to do with my time which is why I wrote what I did so don't try & tell me how to think


& im not your pal so FO

Where did I try and force my views? ?

I clearly said that I personally felt uncomfortable but NUFC fans SHOULD NOT feel guilty about this. You were the one telling people what to think you cretin.

 

Maybe read what's been said first before commenting eh?

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by UncleBingo

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

3 minutes ago, Si said:

It's fascinating to see the people that were slating the premier league as not fit for purpose, being corrupt and in the pocket of the top six etc now saying "well if the premier league says it's not Saudi Arabia buying us but a company then that'll do for me"

 

You can be ok about it, not ok about it and every variation in between but the hypocrisy around the comments saying if the government do business with them, if the premier league say it's fine from people is wrong. They own us enjoy it or don't but don't hide behind the premier league and the government. 

Staveley has also stated that the state is a seperate entity, but what I meant personally by the comparison is that the problem is a broken system, domestically and probably globally too, and that really we as fans shouldn't feel guilty about it.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

2 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

Where did I try and force my views? ?

I clearly said that I personally felt uncomfortable but NUFC fans SHOULD not feel guilty about this. You were the one telling people what to think you cretin.

 

Maybe read what's been said first before commenting eh?

 

Your too clever & educated for me, I submit 

 

[Awaymag]

This thread will be one big argument but I understand the sentiment.

 

Personally I dont think about it to be honest and I wont in future.   I expect Amnesty etc will be at the home games from now on.  I will acknowledge if approached but politely decline any leaflets they try to hand out.    As many have said, the Government and PL have made their bed with the Saudis, why it should be fans to take a stand, I just can't compute!

 

 

[jack j]

1 minute ago, Awaymag said:

This thread will be one big argument but I understand the sentiment.

 

Personally I dont think about it to be honest and I wont in future.   I expect Amnesty etc will be at the home games from now on.  I will acknowledge if approached but politely decline any leaflets they try to hand out.    As many have said, the Government and PL have made their bed with the Saudis, why it should be fans to take a stand, I just can't compute!

 

 

Good luck to them getting tickets

[jack j]

Just now, jack j said:

Good luck to them getting tickets

And even better luck to them not getting slapped outside the ground

[morpeth mag]

9 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Saw a video on Twitter of a couple of Saudis at the Saudi Arabia v Japan game wearing Newcastle shirts on Thursday night.

Probably bought from their local SD store

[Klaus]

This is a thread we need to have. Seeing our fans waving the Saudi flag outside the ground, did not sit well with me at all.

 

Yes, it was only a few daft young'ins, but i bet we see more of similar shit next weekend against spurs.

[Ben]

 

[mighty__mag]

Awful thread. 

 

The discussion/the opinions/how people feel, it's fair. (Sounds like a constriction)

 

But, I think this has just given the keys to the Mackems and every other faux sign up to have their own place here. 

 

It's just going to be a mess in here, Jeremy Vine shit.

 

 

Should be moved to chat, under politics.

 

Can't believe its here after less than 48hrs. 

 

Miserable ??

[Foluwashola]

Feel nothing but unbridled joy to be honest, can't be arsed to pretend otherwise.

 

Obviously in an ideal world, where we had some sort of say in the matter, would prefer us not to have links to such a regime.

 

Ultimately though it's got nowt to do with us, so just going to enjoy the benefits it brings to our club, our city & it's people. 

[GM]

While I'm obviously delighted to see the back of Mike Ashley, the words 'frying pan' and 'fire' spring to mind. As do 'Faustian' and 'deal'. I want to enjoy the start of a new, hopeful era but you just know that there's a dark shadow in the corner of the room all the while and it's not one the media is going to let up on us about any time soon. That bit pisses me off a lot. Aye, it'll be great to see the world's best players signing for Newcastle - bringing my one-time FIFA 2004 dreams into reality, but the fact remains this game is absolutely rotten to the core. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by GM

[OpenC]

Just now, Foluwashola said:

Feel nothing but unbridled joy to be honest, can't be arsed to pretend otherwise.

 

Obviously in an ideal world, where we had some sort of say in the matter, would prefer us not to have links to such a regime.

 

Ultimately though it's got nowt to do with us, so just going to enjoy the benefits it brings to our club, our city & it's people. 

 

Aye

[gdm]

It’s a legitimate thread. Every fans opinion matters. Don’t get involved if the discussion makes you so uncomfortable that you don’t want to discuss it 

[InspectorCoarse]

Aye move the thread over to chat/politics . 

[geordiesteve710]

In terms of the wider picture  it's easy to be pious and moralise when it's not your club and we're seeing a lot of it mixed in with "I don't like Newcastle anyway" comments. That can be easily ignored.

 

As @Greg told multiple media outlets the other day, football fans don't get to choose the club owners and we shouldn't be feeling guilty about it. Personally I have the mental capacity to separate the football club from the other activities of its owners. I.e. whether the Saudis own 80% of NUFC or not has no bearing on whether it will or won't commit atrocities elsewhere. We all compartmentalise issues like this to a degree, otherwise we would be doing prayers of repentment every time we fill the car up with petrol.

 

That said, it's disheartening to see NUFCs name being used on twitter (I know, I know) to promote KSA both by what are clearly bots and more dishearteningly by fans who can't see past a basic "Saudis = friends, Richard Masters = enemy" line of thinking.

 

Same goes for the saudi flags/fake sheikh outfits outside SJP the other night. Although I'm sure most of these were doing it with the intent of a bit of a harmless laugh it's not a good look (not sure the Saudis would be too keen either) and it needs to be discouraged. I'm not sure how, but the way to discourage it is not by calling people cunts and telling them they should be ashamed because that will just lead to them doubling down in defiance.

 

My brother-in-law laid into me on facebook the other night because I was celebrating the end of Ashley. Couldn't let it pass without comment that I was prepared to overlook thousands of deaths etc. When my wife got back in (she'd been out with him in the pub) she laid into me as well for supporting the takeover by new owners who are morally worse than Ashley. That got my back up because the fucking pair of them grew up in a family where the breadwinner was in the RAF and then worked for BAE. I'm not sure what they thought he was teaching the Saudis to do with their warplanes when he went over to train them but I'm pretty sure it wasn't dusting crops. Anyway, long story short she's now very upset and it's all my fault obviously. But we were sat there in the living room having this conversation with SSN showing the scenes from SJP and I was just thinking bluntly "I prefer that party to your viewpoint." For someone who isn't as uneasy with the Saudis as me who will doubtlessly read countless column inches over the next few weks calling us cunts for celebrating outside SJP it's a no-brainer, it's going to push them further towards the Saudis and if anything enable the sportswashing.

 

Final point, and this is an honest question, if it doesn't go the way of a Man City style takeover, if the Saudis stay out of the spotlight, improvement is gradual and we're in the position of say an Everton in five years time. Does it still count as sportswashing?

[geordiesteve710]

21 minutes ago, POOT 2.0 said:

Mature discussion on this subject is immeasurably important. So please don't turn the thread into a pointless and ridiculous 24/7 fight arena. 

 

Not one person here has blood on their hands. None of us do. We are not the enemy of each other. You're letting the rich and powerful make you fight amongst the powerless, amongst ourselves. A millennium long trick.  

It's a discussion on the actions of a repugnant regime that has a controlling share in our club. We are now linked to that, like it or not. It's vital to keep the discussion going, but don't attack those who rightfully refuse to be made the scapegoats of the actions of those who are otherworldly powerful. It's unfair and ignorant. 

 

There's some great articles, out there, who's agendas aren't to have a dig at the powerless. Articles that talk of the absolute 0% relevance of fans or customers in the buying of investments. A recent Man City one made a great point of not letting it stop you from enjoying the game, but to also not, and never, thank the controlling owner for whatever victories come our way. They don't care about football, its fans, or the history. They're in it for the returns. Purely and simply. 

 

So my take is: Cheer without guilt, enjoy the entertainments without guilt, but never adorn yourself in Saudi Arabian apparel and state flags. Because once you start celebrating that state...you've crossed the line into sports washing.

 

*This is just my worthless opinion and not an attack on your opinion, if it differs. 

This. One million percent.

[The Prophet]

It's part of the reason I'll never truly fall in love with football again. Nothing has changed, the 'product' still comes before the fans and corruption is still rife. Removing Ashley changes nothing in that respect, other than we're now an insider looking out.

 

Sovereign wealth funds should not be allowed anywhere near the ownership of a footall club, it's a sad state of affairs that the capitalist thirst for cash means nothing is off the table.

 

I'm absolutely delighted Ashley has gone and I appreciate there's very little as a fan, I can do to influence the above, but at the same time its why I don't really feel I have my club back and I think I'll always feel that way until we get our game back.

 

As for KSA, the state are horrific and it makes me cringe to see fellow fans celebrating with flags and fancy dress. While it is the responsibility of the Government and the league to ensure these kind of regimes are no where near the game, it doesn't mean as fans we should endorse and justify what is a barbaric regime.

 

So while I'm delighted I have a club that tries again, I'm  certainly not enamoured with the new ownership. I think my general apathy is more based in the way the game is going than anything the club has done. This takeover is just the symptom of a much wider disease.