Darth Crooks Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Abramovic is about as clear an instance of sports washing as your going to get. I don’t actually believe Saudi are in it for the same reasons primarily. I think it’s more regional pride and part of the diversification and acknowledgment and that this oil element of the economy is on borrowed time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 7 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: I'm well aware of what 'my' country is like, its history, its imperialism and am completely opposed to all of it. If I was criticising SA while excusing the UK, your posts would have a point, but as I'm not, they don't. Our own country is one of the major instigators of war, disharmony and human atrocities in the world, and has been forever. But we have the right to vote, women can drive, gay people can get married, we can sink a few pints and watch our footy team play and so on and so on. That’s why I won’t fully condemn SA, especially it’s people. It wasn’t that long ago we were hanging people, chopping off heads and even members of the royal family couldn’t get married to someone divorced. We have had hundreds of years of enlightenment, but are still barbaric in many ways on human levels. SA need to catch up and they probably will, and if not, who are we to preach to a nation and people that not allowing gay people to have rights is evil for example, who themselves consider us drinking to be similar. It’s all wrong basically and I’m a firm believer that when you remove politicians, royal families, heads of state and power, greed and money from the influential elitists that decent ordinary people of any part of the world don’t give a fuck if you’re white, black, Muslim, Christian, women, gay or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awaymag Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Morning SA scholars. What part of history are we going to discuss today. Maybe Gay rights and comparing to the UK, where only 80 years ago we chemically castrated one of the greatest minds ever to live? Who then went on to commit suicide. Remember - when putting your answers, try to cover all angles and prejudices.......bonus points for the 1st one to get a Phoenix nights quote in! Edited March 17, 2022 by Awaymag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Dinho lad said: It's ok for you, you're been provided with pretty much what you want and need - of course your default view of your country in is not going to be so bad. Try living in places that your country have left with salient, neagtive reminders about what GB have done to it, and then you'd realise, in reality, that your country's past and present is also, in effect, right up there with Saudi. What absolute tripe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Awaymag said: Morning SA scholars. What part of history are we going to discuss today. Maybe Gay rights and comparing to the UK, where only 80 years ago we chemically castrated one of the greatest minds ever to live? Remember - when putting your answers, try to cover all angles and prejudices.......bonus points for the 1st one to get a Phoenix nights quote in! The UK is known for its tolerance, we'd never send the buggers back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 The lad was trying to excuse executions in Saudi Arabia. How far Saudi Arabia has come on as a country or our country's own sins have nothing to do with that. It was me replying to him, not the UK replying to Saudi Arabia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: The lad was trying to excuse executions in Saudi Arabia. How far Saudi Arabia has come on as a country or our country's own sins have nothing to do with that. It was me replying to him, not the UK replying to Saudi Arabia. On a human level, it’s hard to excuse a state killing anyone even if guilty of this that or another, I would rather Bin Laden rot in a jail for example than be wiped out. Again some people don’t deserve to live, but it’s not up to me or anyone else to decide that surely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Dinho is right in what he’s saying, but his argument is wrong because it’s against what no-one is saying or agreeing to in regards our own country, how we act, past and present and what we are involved in regards wars, atrocities, anti human rights and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgarve Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 In terms of newcastle - unless the premier league retrospectively rip up their current rules on ownership then it’s hard to see the club being in danger at all of any issues ( particularly as they have decided PIF is separate from the Saudi state ) Unless the Saudis invade another country some time soon and start bombing theatres full of people and threatening nuclear war on the world then we should be ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, HTT II said: On a human level, it’s hard to excuse a state killing anyone even if guilty of this that or another, I would rather Bin Laden rot in a jail for example than be wiped out. Again some people don’t deserve to live, but it’s not up to me or anyone else to decide that surely. I don't think it is hard, it's only hard if you are vehemently opposed to capital punishment, not everyone will share that view and those that don't will have the opinion that it's fine and it doesn't concern them. Who says their view is wrong whilst yours is right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, Geordie Ahmed said: I don't think it is hard, it's only hard if you are vehemently opposed to capital punishment, not everyone will share that view and those that don't will have the opinion that it's fine and it doesn't concern them. Who says their view is wrong whilst yours is right? Good question, I just don’t think a government or state should have the RIGHT to basically murder someone, regardless of crime. Don’t get me wrong, I’d happily kill someone if they say harmed my family in some way which is wrong on every level, legally and in a human way, but that’s me on an animalistic basic level. Surely we have risen above that as a collective society today, though, in 2022? Or maybe not… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, HTT II said: Good question, I just don’t think a government or state should have the RIGHT to basically murder someone, regardless of crime. Don’t get me wrong, I’d happily kill someone if they say harmed my family in some way which is wrong on every level, legally and in a human way, but that’s me on an animalistic basic level. Surely we have risen above that as a collective society today, though, in 2022? Or maybe not… Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with your view, especially when you add in the very questionable judgement process (be that the US or Saudi) it's logical however for someone that thinks otherwise, they can easily excuse that. We have enough people in this country that constantly call for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Darth Crooks said: Abramovic is about as clear an instance of sports washing as your going to get. I don’t actually believe Saudi are in it for the same reasons primarily. I think it’s more regional pride and part of the diversification and acknowledgment and that this oil element of the economy is on borrowed time. Dunno - think you can draw some direct parallels. Both parties were basically given huge amounts of money by their state (in different ways). Both parties looked to diversify their investments and I think it’s fair to say both (Abramovich and PIF) were looking for some international acceptance and acknowledgement. Edited March 17, 2022 by leffe186 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with your view, especially when you add in the very questionable judgement process (be that the US or Saudi) it's logical however for someone that thinks otherwise, they can easily excuse that. We have enough people in this country that constantly call for it. Oh I agree, even people who deal drugs, on social media say for example the Chronicle report such a story, people say hang them, or whatever. I do honestly think, however, most people when confronted with the reality of putting someone to death regardless of crime, struggle and normally wouldn’t do it. I’m a true crime nerd and I forgot his name, but there was an executioner who has put many a bad person to death (in the US) saying it was like a death sentence to him. And you’re right me saying no to the death penalty doesn’t make me right over someone who says aye to the death penalty. Again though it’s all about what a nation/state should be able to carry out and with the death penalty it should be a no, along with jailing someone because they are gay or not allowing women to vote, work, gay people to be unable to adopt or people previously divorced not to be able to remarry. Killing your own citizens even under law is surely the ultimate sin of any nation/state/people? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 What about killing the wrong person because they’ve been convicted of something they didn’t do? Or killing someone with a mental disability which led them to commit a crime? The whole concept is abhorrent and serves no purpose except revenge. We shouldn’t have a justice system designed to deliver revenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 44 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: What about killing the wrong person because they’ve been convicted of something they didn’t do? Or killing someone with a mental disability which led them to commit a crime? The whole concept is abhorrent and serves no purpose except revenge. We shouldn’t have a justice system designed to deliver revenge. This is always worth a watch on this subject.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: What about killing the wrong person because they’ve been convicted of something they didn’t do? Or killing someone with a mental disability which led them to commit a crime? The whole concept is abhorrent and serves no purpose except revenge. We shouldn’t have a justice system designed to deliver revenge. well you hopefully have a Justice system that protects mental disability defendants from death sentence. Wrongful convictions have been part and parcel of court systems across the globe from the beginning of time, sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I don't think it is hard, it's only hard if you are vehemently opposed to capital punishment, not everyone will share that view and those that don't will have the opinion that it's fine and it doesn't concern them. Who says their view is wrong whilst yours is right? People who oppose the death penalty and who in my view are right to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kanji said: well you hopefully have a Justice system that protects mental disability defendants from death sentence. Wrongful convictions have been part and parcel of court systems across the globe from the beginning of time, sadly. Good luck with that. What would constitute a mental disability defendant? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: What about killing the wrong person because they’ve been convicted of something they didn’t do? Or killing someone with a mental disability which led them to commit a crime? The whole concept is abhorrent and serves no purpose except revenge. We shouldn’t have a justice system designed to deliver revenge. Revenge is a powerful reason though. If you were the parents of a child killed by the Moors murders, I could understand them wanting their killers hanged or whatever method they use. They would be thinking my girl or boy isn't going to get the chance for mercy, why should Ian Brady or Myra Hindley have it? Also have to consider that keeping prisoners in jail for life costs money, and we all pay for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dembacha said: People who oppose the death penalty and who in my view are right to do so. I have no issues with you having the view but this is about recognising not everyone will share that view A far removed example being gambling, I don't gamble (for religious reasons) and I think it ruins lives and provides little to no benefit but there will be people that completely disagree with me on that. Who then decides who is right in that situation? So when it comes to Capital Punishment different countries clearly have different views on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, HTT II said: I’m a true crime nerd and I forgot his name, but there was an executioner who has put many a bad person to death (in the US) saying it was like a death sentence to him. And you’re right me saying no to the death penalty doesn’t make me right over someone who says aye to the death penalty. You should check out The Last Executioner: Memoirs of Thailand's Last Prison Executioner who executed 55 prisoners. I'm trying to think about the end of the book as I read it some time ago. I don't think he had regrets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I don't think it is hard, it's only hard if you are vehemently opposed to capital punishment, not everyone will share that view and those that don't will have the opinion that it's fine and it doesn't concern them. Who says their view is wrong whilst yours is right? This is silly, you could make this vague "well there's arguments on both sides so let's all agree to disagree" about absolutely anything. Some people like to have sex with children and think it should be legal. I disagree with them on that. Who's right? Nobody knows so let's all just get along and accept both sides make a marvellous case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wullie said: This is silly, you could make this vague "well there's arguments on both sides so let's all agree to disagree" about absolutely anything. Some people like to have sex with children and think it should be legal. I disagree with them on that. Who's right? Nobody knows so let's all just get along and accept both sides make a marvellous case. I'm not saying we agree to disagree, just that a complete lack of understanding that other people will have a different position on certain subjects is not always helpful You've had to resort to an absolutely absurd example to highlight your point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said: I have no issues with you having the view but this is about recognising not everyone will share that view A far removed example being gambling, I don't gamble (for religious reasons) and I think it ruins lives and provides little to no benefit but there will be people that completely disagree with me on that. Who then decides who is right in that situation? So when it comes to Capital Punishment different countries clearly have different views on the subject. Absolutely, one which is wrong and the other which is by default right. Edited March 17, 2022 by Dembacha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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