The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

 

I can see what Ian means, I think, in that the problems that Ashley brought to the club were very different to an individual fan on an emotional and personal basis to the ones that KSA have brought. Yes this is a first world problem but if it's affecting your daily life, which is understandable if you're a lifelong NUFC fan with that kind of connection, then it's still a fairly big problem on that personal and emotional level. 

 

There are levels and the KSA issues are obviously worse on a macro and societal level, but I can see how it's less of a daily problem to someone in Newcastle. 

 

I don't disagree, everyone was miserable during the Ashley years and that connection is more real even if it is less meaningful. All I really mean is that once MBS came on the scene it kind of put things into the perspective, didn't it? Once you have that in the back of your mind it feels a bit ridiculous to talk about the 'real pain' we went through.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

You basically just spoke for 99% of the fanbase.

 

You love doing this

 

With all of the surveys that have been going around our fanbase about it, we'll probably know for sure soon enough. 

[Kid Icarus]

FWIW, I don't think anyone's bad or even ignorant for not caring about it like, the only thing that winds me up is people implying that others should stop talking about it or that there's anything wrong or virtue signally about feeling conflicted about it.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

13 minutes ago, Stifler said:

People only say this because it’s the Middle East countries who own football clubs.

If the U.K. government bought Man Utd, other than non-Man Utd fans, there would be no debate really.

Most Russian and Ukrainian clubs originated under the guise of different government departments.

German clubs originated under big companies, many of whom are global brands/conglomerates, Bayer, VW, Mercedes. The same applies to PSV in the Netherlands.

 

Honestly I‘m past the point of giving a fuck anymore. If people don’t like being owned by Saudi’s then fine, shut up and let those who do enjoy it get on with it.

On the same note, those who are not bothered shouldn’t be chastising those who don’t, which happens on social media.

I like this, too many “you should, you shouldn’t” annoying fuckers 

 

no one “should or shouldn’t” do anything if it suits them 

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Pretty obvious what the thread's discussing by the title like, no one's making you read any of it. 

[Wullie]

27 minutes ago, Stifler said:

If the U.K. government bought Man Utd, other than non-Man Utd fans, there would be no debate really.

 

Agreed, I don't think anyone would pass comment on this non-event.

[mighty__mag]

It is sports washing no matter how we look at it, but we all lap up the signings, the champions league, the future infrastructure and investment. 

 

It would be safe to say that the final whistle vs Leicester nobody in the stadium was thinking about the unfortunate events in Saudi?

 

I look at Eddie Howe and think you kind of have to take his approach, he's clearly intelligent and a lovely guy, but he just has to separate the two (politics/football.)

 

This is how they'll continue to do this, until it becomes the norm, expect more kits like this in white and green, and expect more international friendlys etc, its sort of indoctrination.

 

They have a target for 2030, they chose sport.

 

 

[Smal]

there’s not really anything in the thread (recently, at least) that people should feel attacked by to be honest so I don’t know why people get so aggressive about it. I don’t think anyone here with concerns is likely to have a go at individual fans for not caring or having a different opinion. It’s not really a problem that individual members of the public can tackle or solve tbh.

 

23 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I don't disagree, everyone was miserable during the Ashley years and that connection is more real even if it is less meaningful. All I really mean is that once MBS came on the scene it kind of put things into the perspective, didn't it? Once you have that in the back of your mind it feels a bit ridiculous to talk about the 'real pain' we went through.

 

 

 

 

Sure, there’s perspective. We’re dangerously close to a philosophical discussion but I don’t think it’s ludicrous to describe the Ashley years as real pain though, considering how it felt at the time on a daily basis. It’s obviously nothing compared to the pain felt by the families of victims of KSA but problems and feelings are relative I guess.

[Wandy]

23 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You love doing this

 

With all of the surveys that have been going around our fanbase about it, we'll probably know for sure soon enough. 

 

Ask yourself this. How many people in the outside world have you encountered who say they are uncomfortable with the ownership?

[Chris_R]

Ultimately, I'll judge the owner of my football club on how they run the football club. This is exactly what I did with Ashley, and the Halls before them. Any issues I had with Ashley's ownership of us always revolved around what he did with Newcastle United, not his business practices. I didn't want him gone because he was a bad person, I'd have felt exactly the same if instead of running SD he owned non-profit puppy rescue centres and spent all his spare time reading stories to children at the local hospitals - I'd still have wanted him to fuck off and sell Newcastle.

 

Separately, as a human being with at least a modicum of empathy, I also want the people of Saudi Arabia to live under a pleasant, forward-thinking regime just like I want the workers at Sports Direct to not have to give birth in the toilets. For clarity, I'm not equating either of those two things to any degree at all, but whilst these things are of course very worthy of discussion - discussions I'll happily join in with at any time - I can compartmentalise them from my thoughts about football club ownership. This is something I've been able to do successfully in the past, and continue to do today.

[Interpolic]

6 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Agreed, I don't think anyone would pass comment on this non-event.

 

 Everyone was kicking off 25 years ago when Sky wanted to buy them, never mind the UK government. 

 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

Ask yourself this. How many people in the outside world have you encountered who say they are uncomfortable with the ownership?

 

Literally all of them.  That's why relying on anecdotes from your own bubble is unreliable.

[Wandy]

4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Literally all of them.  That's why relying on anecdotes from your own bubble is unreliable.

 

It's hardly a bubble. About 95% of people backed the takeover in that survey when the Saudis were trying to get the club. There is already an astronomical amount of people wanting to get back into SJP. We could sell out a 75k stadium right now, and probably even more.

 

The bubble is the tiny minority who don't want the Saudis here.

 

I'd wager that when these people say they are uncomfortable with the ownership, what they mean is that they are uncomfortable with all of the negative reaction that comes from the media & other fanbases. But they say they are "uncomfortable" with the ownership, simply to save face.

 

If people were truly uncomfortable then they simply would stop their usual support of the club until a new ownership came along, it's that simple. My opinion.

 

Personally, not only am I delighted that these people own us, I also get an extra buzz from the insincere wailing from the media & other fanbases about it all. It's the icing on the cake.

 

No NUFC fan should feel guilt or discomfort at our ownership. Look at Man Utd fans, begging for the Qataris to take them over. And they haven't even gone 70 years without a trophy either.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Wandy

[HaydnNUFC]

I interpreted that survey as 95% of the fans desperately wanted Ashley out, the Saudi bid was the only game in town. People were outside SJP on 7th October 2021 to celebrate Ashley going. Demand for tickets is as high as it is because Ashley is out and we're good again, not because the Saudis are here. IMO any new owner with ambition could've done what's happened at the club so far; we've spent within our means in terms of FFP.

[RobsonsWonderland]

Maybe overtime we can positively change their perspective through the club ? 

 

I mean a women's team is one small step in the right direction.

 

The fact Amanda has such a positive presence another?

 

 

[mondonewc]

1 hour ago, huss9 said:

i agree but there's loads of murdering regimes out there.

Russia's eventually been banned

whilst Israel happily carries on.

and the US have got the world cup ffs. some of the CIA atrocities are hideous.

we then have India, Iran, China and some of the African countries.

 

I'd say the Israeli regime is the worst on the planet.

 

10 wrongs dont make a right though.

This! 

No desire to defend the indefensible, but many people are sadly heavily influenced by Western media, and much of that media is extremely hypocritical and ignores many of the despicable things done by governments and countries in the West, including our own. 

[Kid Icarus]

14 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

It's hardly a bubble. About 95% of people backed the takeover in that survey when the Saudis were trying to get the club. There is already an astronomical amount of people wanting to get back into SJP. We could sell out a 75k stadium right now, and probably even more.

 

The bubble is the tiny minority who don't want the Saudis here.

 

I'd wager that when these people who say they are uncomfortable with the ownership, what they mean is that they are uncomfortable with all of the negative reaction that comes from the media & other fanbases. But they say they are "uncomfortable" with the ownership, simply to save face.

 

If people were truly uncomfortable then they simply would stop their usual support of the club until a new ownership came along, it's that simple. My opinion.

 

Personally, not only am I delighted that these people own us, I also get an extra buzz from the insincere wailing from the media & other fanbases about it all. It's the icing on the cake.

 

No NUFC fan should feel guilt or discomfort at our ownership. Look at Man Utd fans, begging for the Qataris to take them over. And they haven't even gone 70 years without a trophy either.

You're conflating backing the takeover with feeling uncomfortable about the ownership, they're not the same thing. You can back the takeover while still feeling uncomfortable or conflicted about the owners, that's obvious.

 

People can feel what they want about it, it's not for you or others to say what they should be feeling either way.

 

Like I say, there have been enough people doing surveys about the takeover and the owners in our fanbase that we can probably get an accurate number on it soon.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Wandy]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I interpreted that survey as 95% of the fans desperately wanted Ashley out, the Saudi bid was the only game in town. People were outside SJP on 7th October 2021 to celebrate Ashley going. Demand for tickets is as high as it is because Ashley is out and we're good again, not because the Saudis are here. IMO any new owner with ambition could've done what's happened at the club so far; we've spent within our means in terms of FFP.

 

I'm sorry, but you are in denial. Yeah, people celebrated the departure of Ashley. But more significantly, they celebrated the arrival of vast wealth. 

 

Demand for tickets is high because of what the Saudis are (hopefully) going to do for the club. It's also delusional to suggest that any owner could deliver the club & stadium infrastructure that the Saudis have planned.

 

Yes, Ashley could probably have delivered a similar season to the one we have just had. He could not have provided what is to come under the Saudis though. THAT is why people celebrated in 2021, and that is why the majority of the fanbase don't give a monkeys about the ownership either.

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Maybe overtime we can positively change their perspective through the club ? 

 

I mean a women's team is one small step in the right direction.

 

The fact Amanda has such a positive presence another?

 

 

 

This is one of the things that has to be appreciated about them is that their ownership is very much in the back ground and the running of the club is not influenced in any way by how they conduct things in their country.

 

In fact the running of the club is essentially being done by Amanda and Mehrdad, as well as the Reubens, in the best way they see fit, and the owners just sign off on stuff so the funds get released.

 

They're not really looking to run the club top to bottom at all. Mostly just backing Amanda/Mehrdad and the Reubens with funds. 

[TRon]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

I don't know anymore ... I think if people are not going to be able to deal with them wanting a kit in their countries colours (which is mostly being done to generate interest over there, and increase the clubs commercial income), or can't deal with them wanting their national team to play games at the club, then they shouldn't accept the ownership.

 

I think more should be done to go against the ownership in that case, because it's all too hypocritical in my opinion. You can't have them spend the money they did on the club and pour so much investment into the area and then rail against them anytime they do anything that draws attention to their country. Their never going to completely dumb down where they are from, it's just not going to happen. For the most part I think they are already very tempered in the way they conduct themselves but it will never be enough for some people.

 

Why not start a more aggressive movement to get them out then? Because ultimately i think too much is being asked of the ownership and it's really not realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

If the Newcastle fans wanted the Saudis out, they could have them out within a month, just by holding large public protests against the owners. I'm sure PIF could sell up now and more than make their money back.

 

But the vast majority of NUFC fans don't want them out. They are loving being fans of a club that is living and breathing again. That's not to say that there won't be plenty out there who aren't happy with being owned by a middle eastern investment fund though. They just don't represent the majority.

[ohmelads]

The media 'sell' news. Media reaction (and subsequently public reaction) to Newcastle's Saudi connection is considered a thousand times more public and important than the UK's massive sales of weapons to Saudi Arabia going back over a decade. How can you be outraged about Newcastle if you already knew about the context and were previously and still are silent about the far bigger direct issue? We (the UK) are the second biggest dealer of arms to the Saudis behind the US, which is a major source of revenue for our country. They're our biggest arms customer in the world in fact (and the second biggest is Qatar, not counting Ukraine). If you were totally ignorant and just get news from the BBC, then OK, but read more widely.

 

Just because the media put massively disproportionate outrage on Newcastle, it doesn't mean you can't form your own holistic view of the situation. We just spent an entire week talking about a tiny submarine that the US navy already believed had imploded while all manner of massive important news was relegated and barely noticed. Media outrage/reaction is not proportionate to the tragedies in the world, and the media couldn't care less. Just because they tell you to be outraged about one thing, you can still have nuanced ideas and think for yourself. We all know why there is massively disproportionate focus on us. We know why Arteta and Pep don't get the same questions Howe does. We know why financial 'fair' play exists and why UEFA coefficients exist. All components of a corrupt system and the Saudis are a symptom of that, because there is no way to compete without sourcing money from people who have money to burn.

[Hovagod]

33 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

This is one of the things that has to be appreciated about them is that their ownership is very much in the back ground and the running of the club is not influenced in any way by how they conduct things in their country.

 

In fact the running of the club is essentially being done by Amanda and Mehrdad, as well as the Reubens, in the best way they see fit, and the owners just sign off on stuff so the funds get released.

 

They're not really looking to run the club top to bottom at all. Mostly just backing Amanda/Mehrdad and the Reubens with funds. 

They’re using the club as and when they see fit. They’re using the ground to host a friendly that is part of their obvious and ongoing sportswashing project.

 

I mean, we can get as teary eyed as we like at the Robson quote, but we are happily letting the club being used for the purposes of bolstering the Saudi regime.

 

You might not care, you might care but have opted to accept it (I suppose I’m in this camp, and it was a stance I was attacked for when it was Mike Ashley who owned them), but you can’t say they’re not doing something that they are blatantly doing. I honestly think that an official announcement on this game will be a dark day for Newcastle United. It’s a confirmation of a strategy that we are going to be unable to distract ourselves from for much longer- no matter how many wor flag displays or Sam Fender wearing toon shirts at his gigs. 

 

 

[Whitley mag]

What’s the going rate for hosting an international fixture 20 million ? Get some flights on from Saudi and boost the local economy happy days.

 

[ohmelads]

1 hour ago, Hovagod said:

They’re using the club as and when they see fit. They’re using the ground to host a friendly that is part of their obvious and ongoing sportswashing project.

 

I mean, we can get as teary eyed as we like at the Robson quote, but we are happily letting the club being used for the purposes of bolstering the Saudi regime.

 

You might not care, you might care but have opted to accept it (I suppose I’m in this camp, and it was a stance I was attacked for when it was Mike Ashley who owned them), but you can’t say they’re not doing something that they are blatantly doing. I honestly think that an official announcement on this game will be a dark day for Newcastle United. It’s a confirmation of a strategy that we are going to be unable to distract ourselves from for much longer- no matter how many wor flag displays or Sam Fender wearing toon shirts at his gigs. 

 

 

 

I do worry about the Saudis with regards to the club's future. They're buying players off rival Premier League clubs at inflated prices, which isn't in our best interests at all. That's a massive red flag. We also have very powerful enemies, not because of the Saudis but because of the perceived threat in the league. You could argue there's no other way to challenge the established elite, but we haven't exactly crept up on them and the way it's happened has forced them to close ranks and try to set up more barriers. We are in a strong position but also a precarious position, because we don't know what our owners are doing and they're so rich that they could write off a loss and ditch us very quickly. No one would have any sympathy and the league would be under pressure to leave us to suffer the consequences.

[TRon]

1 minute ago, ohmelads said:

 

I do worry about the Saudis with regards to the club's future. They're buying players off rival Premier League clubs at inflated prices, which isn't in our best interests at all. That's a massive red flag. We also have very powerful enemies, not because of the Saudis but because of the perceived threat in the league. You could argue there's no other way to challenge the established elite, but we haven't exactly crept up on them and the way it's happened has forced them to close ranks and try to set up more barriers. We are in a strong position but also a precarious position, because we don't know what our owners are doing and they're so rich that they could write off a loss and ditch us very quickly. No one would have any sympathy and the league would be under pressure to leave us to suffer the consequences.

 

If the owners ditched us, that would open up the path for new more enlightened owners. At least that might give some supporters a feeling of relief.