Decky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 57 minutes ago, Whitley mag said: Don’t see why it’s so unreasonable to think Howe would be under pressure if we missed out on Europe and had another disappointing season next year. A few on here go way over the top after he beats Burnley and Sheff Utd, the truth lies somewhere in between and though overall he’s got a lot of credit in the bank, next season with Tonali and new signings on board there will be targets set internally by PIF, that unless there is serious mitigation such as Isak being crocked all season he will need to hit. The recent interview with Neville clearly confirms he has veto over transfers, so this summer is on him and he needs to get it right. The simple fact is we have to kick on. This season has been a write off but it didn’t need to be. Performances against Palace, Brighton and Man Utd haven’t been good enough. We got away with it against Fulham as well. First half against Sheffield United too. It’s been piss poor for weeks and if it continues into next season Howe is in trouble. I love the man but this can’t continue, it’s not even about us fans it’s the owners who won’t accept it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1892 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Somebody posted yesterday evening how we don’t seem to control games any more and to me it feels like we have moved from a team that could score and hold on to a 1-0 comfortably to getting pulled in to games of end to end football on a constant basis. We have suffered badly with injuries but it is our away form that has hurt us and will continue to hurt us unless we can dictate the play and tempo better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Hard to control games with no consistency and a third string back five Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 minute ago, Jack27 said: Hard to control games with no consistency and a third string back five If there's one thing I know for certain, it's that we are not controlling any games with Longstaff playing the way he has been in midfield. Especially when we also have had to use the inexperienced Anderson/Miley in there so much too. Apparently this is surprising to some people though. And they think some revolutionary tactic should sort it out. The truth is though, most other managers would most likely have us looking far worse than we have with these options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 18 minutes ago, KaKa said: It's unacceptable in your view because of your arrogance. You think we have a right to get a result in these games just because we came 4th last season. This isn't a video game. You can keep dismissing the injury situation all you want, but at the end of the day, most of this season we've ended up playing Bruno in midfield (the most impactful part of the pitch) with some combination from Longstaff, Anderson and Miley. And you really think this is no big deal and 'tactics' can simply sort this out, so we can go to these away games and just beat these teams, because it's just that easy, and everyone else is doing it. It's this kind of thinking that means I cannot take you guys that 'keep it real' seriously. What’s wrong with saying 11 defeats in 18 is a poor return? It’s a fact - got nothing to do with us finishing 4th - in those 11 defeats, which matches can we say we were unlucky not to get anything? And yet at home we look a totally different team - EH has had the same tools home and away or is it just away from home where we suffer more with injuries? Edited May 16 by Mikky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Howe won't be under pressure this summer, we'll finish in acceptable position considering the mitigating factors at play. He'll definitely be expected to improve on that next season though, particularly if we're not in Europe. I have every faith we will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1892 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 minutes ago, Jack27 said: Hard to control games with no consistency and a third string back five We haven’t all season though and need to accept that we are going to have injuries, like all clubs do. Tripper, Schar and Botman have played the majority of Premier League games and on top of that as a club we decided to commit a lot of money to 2 more fullbacks as priority signings last summer. So we can’t use that as an excuse for our poor away form that has gone on pretty much all season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 minutes ago, KaKa said: If there's one thing I know for certain, it's that we are not controlling any games with Longstaff playing the way he has been in midfield. Especially when we also have had to use the inexperienced Anderson/Miley in there so much too. Apparently this is surprising to some people though. And they think some revolutionary tactic should sort it out. The truth is though, most other managers would most likely have us looking far worse than we have with these options. Our midfield has proven itself to be more than capable. We’ve 57 points, we’re not just about scrapping survival here. The fact is that performances haven’t been good enough. This team as a whole needs to be more clinical. We should have beaten Brighton and Man Utd but we’ve walked away with just a point. Man Utd had a makeshift defence, does their injuries not factor into this? The entire country has been laughing at them for weeks now and they’ve beaten us when Europe was on the table. The players have to do better, that seems clear to me. I can guarantee you we’ll be poor again this weekend too. It’s been happening for weeks now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, Mikky said: What’s wrong with saying 11 defeats in 18 is a poor return? It’s a fact - got nothing to do with us finishing 4th - in those 11 defeats, which matches can we say we were unlucky not to get anything? And yet at home we look a totally different team - EH has had the same tools home and away or is it just away from home where we suffer more with injuries? Players, particularly the ones that aren't as good, absolutely tend to play with much more confidence at home, yes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 minute ago, KaKa said: Players, particularly the ones that aren't as good, absolutely tend to play with much more confidence at home, yes! Look I am not saying get rid of Howe and there’s reasons for why we haven’t been as strong this season, of course there is. My stance has always been let’s learn from this season regardless - EH has effectively been on a seasons secondment where everything has been thrown at him - search deep into what hasn’t worked, what we need to improve on - box clever in the market with clever signings (Tosin/Kelly) If it is to be the Europa Conference then I am more than happy with it - it’s a chance to win something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 5 minutes ago, Decky said: Our midfield has proven itself to be more than capable. We’ve 57 points, we’re not just about scrapping survival here. The fact is that performances haven’t been good enough. This team as a whole needs to be more clinical. We should have beaten Brighton and Man Utd but we’ve walked away with just a point. Man Utd had a makeshift defence, does their injuries not factor into this? The entire country has been laughing at them for weeks now and they’ve beaten us when Europe was on the table. The players have to do better, that seems clear to me. I can guarantee you we’ll be poor again this weekend too. It’s been happening for weeks now. Our midfield has absolutely not proven to be more than capable. The story of the season has been Bruno having to carry the whole unit, while Gordon and Isak have had standout performances higher up the pitch to win us games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 56 minutes ago, LiquidAK said: I think the thinking at the start of the season was likely that Gordon and Barnes would rotate for the LW spot, with Gordon able to pick up minutes on the RW as well as needed, with Miggy & Murphy primarily rotating for that spot. Barnes' injury and Gordon having such a good season has changed that, but the signing was generally quite a logical one at the time. I still think it will come good as well next season in a similar setup, but hopefully with a better RW as the main starter that side. So…. It’s Barnes and Gordon competing for one spot. And Almiron and Murphy competing for the other. 2 LW options that both have more ability and higher ceilings than any RW option. That doesn’t make sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Just now, KaKa said: Our midfield has absolutely not proven to be more than capable. The story of the season has been Bruno having to carry the whole unit, while Gordon and Isak have had standout performances higher up the pitch to win us games. Longstaff has frustrated the life out of me this season but to suggest our midfield isn’t capable at this level is laughable. Again, we’ve 57 points after the worst injury hit season in our history. Bruno didn’t do all that by himself. Our midfield has been absolutely fine in plenty of games. Last night, Brighton, Palace, all those games was the whole team underperforming. Our midfield has had its problems all season but you don’t get this many points in the Premier League with players that aren’t capable of being good at this level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 minutes ago, Mikky said: Look I am not saying get rid of Howe and there’s reasons for why we haven’t been as strong this season, of course there is. My stance has always been let’s learn from this season regardless - EH has effectively been on a seasons secondment where everything has been thrown at him - search deep into what hasn’t worked, what we need to improve on - box clever in the market with clever signings (Tosin/Kelly) If it is to be the Europa Conference then I am more than happy with it - it’s a chance to win something This season is the aberration. I fully expect us to return to what we showed last season come August. The reality is that we have been missing Tonali, Joelinton and Willock for large chunks of the season. It is very unlikely this will be the case again. Just by virtue of that alone, we are going to be back to business. Especially with a right winger coming in too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 3 minutes ago, KaKa said: Our midfield has absolutely not proven to be more than capable. The story of the season has been Bruno having to carry the whole unit, while Gordon and Isak have had standout performances higher up the pitch to win us games. Yep totally agree with this - the whole right side needs fixing in my view and that should in theory be our summer priority - whether it’s attainable or not I don’t know but a RCM, RW and CF (with Minteh) should be our business with the likes of Miggy and Wilson departing with one of Longstaff and Murphy (if not both at risk) - there’s no other way forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 3 minutes ago, KaKa said: Our midfield has absolutely not proven to be more than capable. The story of the season has been Bruno having to carry the whole unit, while Gordon and Isak have had standout performances higher up the pitch to win us games. Aye. Playing a lot of the season without 3 of our 4 best CMs has been a killer. We’ve been so weak in there. I’ve been against signing squad players but maybe we need too. Even if on loan. I want to see this squad with some fitness and a proper RW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Pope injury aside, I do think the midfield away from home has been our biggest problem. Not enough physicality to grab games, not enough technical ability to help us control pace and build play, but also seemingly awful at winning second balls. All the good things you see away teams coming here and doing we've not been able to do. I don't think it's a shock when you consider the other mids who've played most have been Longstaff and probably Miley. I feel like we'd have been able to get around this more with physical players up top who could help us gain territory but only Wilson has the profile for that really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 19 minutes ago, Matt1892 said: We haven’t all season though and need to accept that we are going to have injuries, like all clubs do. Tripper, Schar and Botman have played the majority of Premier League games and on top of that as a club we decided to commit a lot of money to 2 more fullbacks as priority signings last summer. So we can’t use that as an excuse for our poor away form that has gone on pretty much all season. It's gone a bit beyond "injuries, like most clubs do" this seeaon mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 minute ago, Decky said: Longstaff has frustrated the life out of me this season but to suggest our midfield isn’t capable at this level is laughable. Again, we’ve 57 points after the worst injury hit season in our history. Bruno didn’t do all that by himself. Our midfield has been absolutely fine in plenty of games. Last night, Brighton, Palace, all those games was the whole team underperforming. Our midfield has had its problems all season but you don’t get this many points in the Premier League with players that aren’t capable of being good at this level. We have been achieving what we have despite the midfield combinations we've had to manage with this season. That is credit to Bruno and to the manager for finding a way to make it work. That is why it is comical when people moan about the manager so much. I need to know which manager is going to have us controlling games with Longstaff, Miley/Anderson and Bruno. Please let me know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 4 minutes ago, KaKa said: We have been achieving what we have despite the midfield combinations we've had to manage with this season. That is credit to Bruno and to the manager for finding a way to make it work. That is why it is comical when people moan about the manager so much. I need to know which manager is going to have us controlling games with Longstaff, Miley/Anderson and Bruno. Please let me know. Im not suggesting anyone is better than Howe for us, far from it. He’s the man to take us into next season and beyond but I just think performances need to improve. We had 6th in the palm of our hand and we’ve blown it. There’s no other way to look at it for me. One point from Brighton and Man Utd is piss poor, we’re better than that, even with a midfield of Bruno Longstaff and Anderson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Aye. Playing a lot of the season without 3 of our 4 best CMs has been a killer. We’ve been so weak in there. It's why the team performances have been so inconsistent. The midfield as a unit has been poor. This has affected the team both going forward and defensively at various points. We're not even seeing the Longstaff of last season in there as he is not even at those levels. It hasn't been good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) We couldn't control the game last night because we still had too many average players in key positions. We've lost Schar and Botman, who are excellent at bringing it our from the back, with Krath and Burn not nearly as effective. Then Anderson (who is still young and has time to improve) and Longstaff in for Willock/Joelinton and Tonali in the middle of the park. Chuck in a poor keeper and a less than fully fit Isak and we were carrying too many passengers. Edited May 16 by The Prophet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Aye. Playing a lot of the season without 3 of our 4 best CMs has been a killer. We’ve been so weak in there. I’ve been against signing squad players but maybe we need too. Even if on loan. I want to see this squad with some fitness and a proper RW. Yes Longstaff and Anderson were completely ineffectual yesterday. Bruno constantly has to carry the midfield. I hope Tonali can help with this moving forwards. Still feel like we lack creativity at times from midfield in final 3rd but it was our finishing which was the issue yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Just now, Decky said: Im not suggesting anyone is better than Howe for us, far from it. He’s the man to take us into next season and beyond but I just think performances need to improve. We had 6th in the palm of our hand and we’ve blown it. There’s no other way to look at it for me. One point from Brighton and Man Utd is piss poor, we’re better than that, even with a midfield of Bruno Longstaff and Anderson. Performances don't need to improve, they absolutely WILL improve. There's no doubt about it for me. I cannot see a situation where we will be missing all of Joelinton, Tonali and Willock again, all at the same time, for such an extended period. The last two games have been frustrating. We're already making the midfield work as best we can, then on top of that Isak has apparently been ill, and of course Wilson is then not available either. Even today here comes Trippier to directly affect two of Man United's goals. Don't know what on Earth is going on with Wilson, but just having him available likely gets us at least 3 or 4 points from both games. I'm already looking forward to next season. I know it's going to be very different and the joke is going to be on everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, KaKa said: From the outset of your comment you have already got the premise of the whole discussion wrong, which is typical. You've added on if he has a poor season next season, which was never what we were talking about. Regarding his transfers they have mostly been excellent, and with another summer to continue to build the squad and with Tonali also coming back in, and the right wing finally getting addressed, I'm betting on Howe making all the nagging naysayers look impossibly dumb. I'm really really looking forward to it. With all respect don’t think I have, the discussion was started with @et tu brute suggesting he would be in trouble next season if things go in the same vein as this season. I don’t think that is an unreasonable assertion as some have painted it out to be. Edited May 16 by Whitley mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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