Eddie Howe

[Deuce]

15 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

In general, managers don’t change and if they do, they struggle hard. Howe way is his way, can’t see him changing. So we either get better players to implement it, or start the uneasy journey of signing different player profiles where we know how it often ends with the manager. 

There’s clearly a tension between folks wanting us to sign a certain profile of player, recognizing that there are clear limitations to how we play, and also knowing, but not readily admitting, that Eddie himself doesn’t want, or won’t use, that particular profile of player.

 

The alternative is recognizing that the likes of Elanga and Ramsey are, on paper, quintessential Eddie Howe players. And that’s just the kind of player we’re going to target as long as he’s the manager.

 

So as long as he’s here, we should be targeting the best of Eddie’s brand of player. And not tricky, creative attacking midfield types that will go unused or played out position.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

12 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

I’d hope that was pinpointed as a potential turning point, giving it was playing three of the newly promoted sides and 5 of last seasons bottom 8  

 

That is the easy run over now.

 

People in general massively underestimate the importance of fixtures when telling the story of a season. You really shouldn't be able to say a team is in good or bad form without a mention of how hard their games have been. 

 

I mean this when we're doing badly as well as when we're doing well. And for rival clubs as well. 

 

 

Edited January 20 by AyeDubbleYoo

[timeEd32]

11 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I love Eddie, but I don't understand why so many are afraid to hear some home truths. PIF won't hold back at the end of the season, serious questions will be asked.

I’d love to find out that you’re actually just recycling real quotes from the last couple years.

[Zero]

4 minutes ago, Deuce said:

There’s clearly a tension between folks wanting us to sign a certain profile of player, recognizing that there are clear limitations to how we play, and also knowing, but not readily admitting, that Eddie himself doesn’t want, or won’t use, that particular profile of player.

 

The alternative is recognizing that the likes of Elanga and Ramsey are, on paper, quintessential Eddie Howe players. And that’s just the kind of player we’re going to target as long as he’s the manager.

 

So as long as he’s here, we should be targeting the best of Eddie’s brand of player. And not tricky, creative attacking midfield types that will go unused or played out position.

….wait a minute, so you mean we should be expecting more Elanga and Ramsay?

[LiquidAK]

19 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

His (Pep) underlying principles been the same at Man City as was at Barcelona, just not to the extreme. I.e. Wingers being high and wide, but then crashing in back post was his at Barce with Henry / Villa / Pedro and was same with Mahrez / Sane / Sterling.

 

It’s this current Man City side that’s unlike Pep, and it’s showing because it doesn’t fit his style and he’s having to adapt himself, which he’s struggling. 
 

In general, managers don’t change and if they do, they struggle hard. Howe way is his way, can’t see him changing. So we either get better players to implement it, or start the uneasy journey of signing different player profiles where we know how it often ends with the manager. 

I don't solely disagree, I don't think Howe needs to completely abandon his principles to transition us to a team that's better in possession and is a bit savvier about how and when we press rather than all out for 90 minutes. Seems to me that the signs are there that that's what he's aiming for, it's just not there yet 

[SteV]

Presser at 4:30pm

[timeEd32]

1 hour ago, vicente_14 said:

Alan Davies made some interesting points on his Tuesday Club podcast about the state of modern football  which seems to resonate when you watch us every three days and see how we struggle away from home.

He mentioned that the game is slow and dull, teams take ages over every single corner and throw in (including Arsenal), strikers with very few exceptions (Haaland, Thiago, Calvert-Lewin etc) struggle for goals because the game is now slow and teams just pass side to side constantly, full backs are getting much of the ball and often the furthest forward and often in the opposition box the most but don’t score.

The bigger sides spend most of the game in the final third and the opposition are camped in their final third too so the game is tight and compressed so finding spaces and gaps is challenging and another negative for strikers as chances are very limited.

The biggest sides are playing every 3 days, and playing sides like Manchester United who play once a week and come fresh to a game and can go all out (see the Manchester derby). And now Manchester United have a clear 8 days to prepare for the away game to Arsenal.

 

Nobody really flourishing in open play, see Liverpool and there huge spend on attacking players yet struggling to score or do much and absolutely boring to watch.

 

The top strikers having played every few days have run about a million miles and are knackered and constantly having to fight against big lumps like Murillo & Milenkovic.

Lots of low scoring games, lots of so called lesser sides relying on centre  halves to pinch headed set piece goals, and the sides not having to play every three days, West Ham beating Spurs, Wolves drawing with us, Everton beating Aston Villa, Burnley drawing at Liverpool.

I think it’s all quite relevant to us, we do look tired, we do lack ideas, rotation of players can freshen things but the other sides are fresher and having had full weeks to prepare are well drilled and hard to break down.

 

I do think our business has been pretty poor in regards to how we play and as Eddie doesn’t seem to want a plan B and just wants plan A done better, so to play our intensive high press, we cant rotate Bruno/Tonali/Joelinton with Willock or Ramsey as they are not the same profile, Elanga seems the perfect fit for how we used to play but well, say no more. The choice of Big Nick (love Big Nick!) and Wissa doesn’t overly compliment the high press and big energy style of play and weirdly Osula seems the best fit for that style but not trusted/injured. The only sensible piece of business seems Thiaw who seems a logical, quicker swap for Fabian.

So in a nutshell, Football is sh*t now, Eddie is great but stubborn and he may or may not sort it out, Sean Dyche looks ridiculous in a tight fitting tracksuit, Elanga will probably trip over his own feet next time he tries to cross a ball, Spurs will fire the gum chewing PE teacher with two first names and will not be much better off because they have far bigger issues, Arsenal will bore their way to the title, Liverpool will just bore, Man Utd will probably pinch a Champions League place because they have very few games and forever to prepare for each game, and yet we all still love football.

 

The bottom 5 heading into the weekend played Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs, and Fulham. They conceded two goals and none of them lost. This wasn't really an anomaly; the Premier League has changed and it seems disingenuous at this point to critique the manager and the players without at least recognizing the broader context (stealing much of this from The Times).

 

I've been critical of our lack of goals from the striker position and also Gordon's output, but this is currently the lowest goal output in five years:

It's even worse for forwards:

And this is not just a "there aren't many great goal scorers anymore problem." They aren't getting the ball as much in dangerous areas:

The clock has been wound back to 2009/10, which had the highest portion of set piece goals in the history of the PL era:

There's all sorts of theories floating around about why -- the league has never been stronger in terms of depth, pressing has been figured out to some extent, teams are happy to setup defensively and hope to get a goal either on a counter or from a set piece, etc. etc. Here's a quote from Anthony Barry, England assistant:

 

Quote

But in the middle area of the pitch, those 24 metres, we feel the game has become stuck, particularly in the Premier League. Everybody has so much information now. They know how to set up – mid-blocks, deep blocks. We are really trying to focus on accelerating the game across those 24 metres.”

 

Games this season are averaging the lowest number of passes since 2012/13. The length of passing sequences is also down as well as how far up the pitch they are traveling. Long balls are up from last season. This all means there are less opportunities to press; there's more than 1 less high turnover per game compared to last season.

 

I think we're trying to deal with the demands of multiple games per week, integrating new players up front, and trying to figure out how to adapt to and beat this new version of the league. We've particularly struggled to create chance and score goals away from home, but we've been very solid defensively. We'll see if either of those continue as we play more of the good teams away in the second half of the season.

 

Oh, and while everyone looks longingly at Villa just know that they have scored twice as many goals as anyone from outside of the penalty area (12). It's particularly great timing and maybe partially strategic in a season when everyone is struggling to score. Maybe they'll be able to keep that up, but these are not high percentage chances and the most likely outcome would be some kind of regression there. Take away just a few of those and they'd be right in the mess that is from Liverpool on down.

[vicente_14]

34 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

The bottom 5 heading into the weekend played Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs, and Fulham. They conceded two goals and none of them lost. This wasn't really an anomaly; the Premier League has changed and it seems disingenuous at this point to critique the manager and the players without at least recognizing the broader context (stealing much of this from The Times).

 

I've been critical of our lack of goals from the striker position and also Gordon's output, but this is currently the lowest goal output in five years:

It's even worse for forwards:

And this is not just a "there aren't many great goal scorers anymore problem." They aren't getting the ball as much in dangerous areas:

The clock has been wound back to 2009/10, which had the highest portion of set piece goals in the history of the PL era:

There's all sorts of theories floating around about why -- the league has never been stronger in terms of depth, pressing has been figured out to some extent, teams are happy to setup defensively and hope to get a goal either on a counter or from a set piece, etc. etc. Here's a quote from Anthony Barry, England assistant:

 

 

Games this season are averaging the lowest number of passes since 2012/13. The length of passing sequences is also down as well as how far up the pitch they are traveling. Long balls are up from last season. This all means there are less opportunities to press; there's more than 1 less high turnover per game compared to last season.

 

I think we're trying to deal with the demands of multiple games per week, integrating new players up front, and trying to figure out how to adapt to and beat this new version of the league. We've particularly struggled to create chance and score goals away from home, but we've been very solid defensively. We'll see if either of those continue as we play more of the good teams away in the second half of the season.

 

Oh, and while everyone looks longingly at Villa just know that they have scored twice as many goals as anyone from outside of the penalty area (12). It's particularly great timing and maybe partially strategic in a season when everyone is struggling to score. Maybe they'll be able to keep that up, but these are not high percentage chances and the most likely outcome would be some kind of regression there. Take away just a few of those and they'd be right in the mess that is from Liverpool on down.

Kind of backs up what Davies was saying on his podcast and the point I was getting at. I was also thinking that when I was growing up, strikers didn't really score crazy amounts of goals, and strikers who could get you 20 goals a season were few and far between and really sought after. Ronaldo, Messi and to a lesser extent, Haaland have really skewed those figures and because people can get a striker to get 60/70 goals a season on Fifa/Football Manager, they seem to think real life should replicate that and seem harsher on strikers (see Big Nick still settling into a new country/league/culture) yet the figures and stats you have attached show that less chances are being created.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Top post @timeEd32, really interesting. Kind of squares with how weird the football has been this season. 

 

Having a team winning the league relying on set pieces is very odd. 

 

Do we have any sense of why this trend is happening? Is it just the trend towards long throws etc, or most teams moving away from the possession game maybe?

 

 

Edited January 20 by AyeDubbleYoo

[TaylorJ_01]

I feel like only 4-5 seasons ago people had given up on corners and it all became about short corners, which drove us all mad. Funny it's switched right back.

[Sibierski]

They need to bring a rule in where you can’t be in the 6 yard box until the corner is taken. This trend of sticking like 12 people in that 6 yard box needs stopping IMO.

[timeEd32]

Last year 18% of corners were taken short. This year it is down to 11%.

 

In 2018/19, 1.67 long throws per game went into the opposition's penalty area. That was the most over the last 10 years. This year it is 3.97 per game.

 

Teams have decided that when you have a chance to put the ball in the middle of the opponent's penalty area you must take that opportunity. And this is another reason why Pope is so much better for us than Ramsdale. Pope has stopped 14.3% of crosses, the most in the PL. Ramsdale was at 6%, which would be middle of the pack.

 

 

[Cf]

I can't remember who said it but I do like the idea of the first touch from a throw in (from the team throwing the ball) can't be in the opposition's penalty area.

 

It's ridiculous how they've essentially turned into corners with the amount of time they take. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

33 minutes ago, TaylorJ_01 said:

I feel like only 4-5 seasons ago people had given up on corners and it all became about short corners, which drove us all mad. Funny it's switched right back.

The emerging consensus was basically that corners were so bad statistically that they really shouldn’t be considered a good chance to score. 
 

Guess the same applies to shooting from free kicks, but the thing that stats can’t capture is the value of a completely free kick, even if the result is relatively unlikely to be good. 
 

And teams seem to have got better at corners. 

 

 

Edited January 20 by AyeDubbleYoo

[The College Dropout]

45 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Top post @timeEd32, really interesting. Kind of squares with how weird the football has been this season. 

 

Having a team winning the league relying on set pieces is very odd. 

 

Do we have any sense of why this trend is happening? Is it just the trend towards long throws etc, or most teams moving away from the possession game maybe?

 

 

 

TBF they are relying on defence first and foremost which is a little more common.

 

31 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

Last year 18% of corners were taken short. This year it is down to 11%.

 

In 2018/19, 1.67 long throws per game went into the opposition's penalty area. That was the most over the last 10 years. This year it is 3.97 per game.

 

Teams have decided that when you have a chance to put the ball in the middle of the opponent's penalty area you must take that opportunity. And this is another reason why Pope is so much better for us than Ramsdale. Pope has stopped 14.3% of crosses, the most in the PL. Ramsdale was at 6%, which would be middle of the pack.

 

 

Pep semi-initiated this general tactically trend (the 4 central defenders) and has also had to pivot to it as well getting in Donnarumma and more vertical players.

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

The emerging consensus was basically that corners were so bad statistically that they really shouldn’t be considered a good chance to score. 
 

Guess the same applies to shooting from free kicks, but the thing that stats can’t capture is the value of a completely free kick, even if the result is relatively unlikely to be good. 
 

And teams seem to have got better at corners. 

 

 

 

Even when they don't score - Arsenal have such pressure from set pieces. And they defend them well.

 

It's rare to see teams across the PL get sliced open in midfield all the time.

 

There was a time City were regularly slapping the mid-pack and below 4 and 5. That rarely happens now. Think I saw a stat that thrashings are at a low of recent decades.

The tactical, physical and technical gap is closer than ever. There's also not the KDBs, Aguero's, Kane, Son, Prime Salah that we used to have. This season there's Haaland... maybe Bruno F then a dozen really great players but not a deep pool of super elite players. As an FPL head only Haaland & Bruno F have justified their premium prices

[bobbydazzla]

Premier League football is replicating American sports where it's all about predetermined "plays" that are coached and drilled into players like pop stars learning dance routines for their stage shows.

 

It's absolutely fucking awful to watch.

[Nucasol]

27 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

Premier League football is replicating American sports where it's all about predetermined "plays" that are coached and drilled into players like pop stars learning dance routines for their stage shows.

 

It's absolutely fucking awful to watch.

K-Pop football.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Just now, Nucasol said:

K-Pop football.

 

 

[Robster]

Is Miley farting ?

[healthyaddiction]

2 minutes ago, Robster said:

Is Miley farting ?

This is an extended version of Miley in that photo.

 

[cubaricho]

2 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

The bottom 5 heading into the weekend played Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs, and Fulham. They conceded two goals and none of them lost. This wasn't really an anomaly; the Premier League has changed and it seems disingenuous at this point to critique the manager and the players without at least recognizing the broader context (stealing much of this from The Times).

 

I've been critical of our lack of goals from the striker position and also Gordon's output, but this is currently the lowest goal output in five years:

It's even worse for forwards:

And this is not just a "there aren't many great goal scorers anymore problem." They aren't getting the ball as much in dangerous areas:

The clock has been wound back to 2009/10, which had the highest portion of set piece goals in the history of the PL era:

There's all sorts of theories floating around about why -- the league has never been stronger in terms of depth, pressing has been figured out to some extent, teams are happy to setup defensively and hope to get a goal either on a counter or from a set piece, etc. etc. Here's a quote from Anthony Barry, England assistant:

 

 

Games this season are averaging the lowest number of passes since 2012/13. The length of passing sequences is also down as well as how far up the pitch they are traveling. Long balls are up from last season. This all means there are less opportunities to press; there's more than 1 less high turnover per game compared to last season.

 

I think we're trying to deal with the demands of multiple games per week, integrating new players up front, and trying to figure out how to adapt to and beat this new version of the league. We've particularly struggled to create chance and score goals away from home, but we've been very solid defensively. We'll see if either of those continue as we play more of the good teams away in the second half of the season.

 

Oh, and while everyone looks longingly at Villa just know that they have scored twice as many goals as anyone from outside of the penalty area (12). It's particularly great timing and maybe partially strategic in a season when everyone is struggling to score. Maybe they'll be able to keep that up, but these are not high percentage chances and the most likely outcome would be some kind of regression there. Take away just a few of those and they'd be right in the mess that is from Liverpool on down.

[Interpolic]

2 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

The bottom 5 heading into the weekend played Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs, and Fulham. They conceded two goals and none of them lost. This wasn't really an anomaly; the Premier League has changed and it seems disingenuous at this point to critique the manager and the players without at least recognizing the broader context (stealing much of this from The Times).

 

I've been critical of our lack of goals from the striker position and also Gordon's output, but this is currently the lowest goal output in five years:

It's even worse for forwards:

And this is not just a "there aren't many great goal scorers anymore problem." They aren't getting the ball as much in dangerous areas:

The clock has been wound back to 2009/10, which had the highest portion of set piece goals in the history of the PL era:

There's all sorts of theories floating around about why -- the league has never been stronger in terms of depth, pressing has been figured out to some extent, teams are happy to setup defensively and hope to get a goal either on a counter or from a set piece, etc. etc. Here's a quote from Anthony Barry, England assistant:

 

 

Games this season are averaging the lowest number of passes since 2012/13. The length of passing sequences is also down as well as how far up the pitch they are traveling. Long balls are up from last season. This all means there are less opportunities to press; there's more than 1 less high turnover per game compared to last season.

 

I think we're trying to deal with the demands of multiple games per week, integrating new players up front, and trying to figure out how to adapt to and beat this new version of the league. We've particularly struggled to create chance and score goals away from home, but we've been very solid defensively. We'll see if either of those continue as we play more of the good teams away in the second half of the season.

 

Oh, and while everyone looks longingly at Villa just know that they have scored twice as many goals as anyone from outside of the penalty area (12). It's particularly great timing and maybe partially strategic in a season when everyone is struggling to score. Maybe they'll be able to keep that up, but these are not high percentage chances and the most likely outcome would be some kind of regression there. Take away just a few of those and they'd be right in the mess that is from Liverpool on down.

 

best post made in here in months. 

[bobbydazzla]

16 minutes ago, healthyaddiction said:

This is an extended version of Miley in that photo.

 

Fucking rights he was “extended”

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Eddie never changes how we play

 

Disclaimer: Eddie Howe has changed Newcastle's style of play a number of times during his time as Newcastle manager.