Eddie Howe

[AyeDubbleYoo]

16 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Eddie’s job is to find a way to get the players we have working together in a system that fits them full stop (same as any other manager).
And that includes our Germany international striker, our Congo international striker, our Brazil international, our Italy international and our 5 England internationals, not to mention the rest. 

 

The reason he can’t is because of his own rigidity. You can find all the excuses you want but everything points back to poor management this season.
 

Fatique - find a system that manages energy.

Poor summer signings - you signed them. Play to their strengths. 

We lost Isak - you’ve had 60 games to find a solution without him.

Aging squad - you kept hold of players you should have let go of. Show us why. 

Players not giving 100% - re-engage them by doing something different. 

 

I wouldn’t give him another penny to spend, other than replacing outgoings. Show us you can adapt and find a way to get the current (very expensively assembled) players to work and then we’ll consider backing you again.
He earns the right to stay another season based on what he’s done up to this point, but he has to show he can evolve. No more excuses! If he can’t/won’t, move on.

Throwing more money at him just plays into his rigidity.

Are you saying there can never be any mitigating factors for a bad season then? By this logic, you can put absolutely any reason beside something the manager should have done to make sure it doesn’t have an effect. Seems a tall order. 

 

 

Edited April 26 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Keegans Export]

23 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Fair. He needs to get that swing before the season ends (think it was yorkie or Decky who said similar) as taking some momentum into the summer will make all the difference to the confidence of the players (and him) the fans ease at whsts to come, but actually could sway the board on whether he stays or not. No wins and just scraping safety, then no one can complain if he time here is done.

 

Im 50/50 on him staying, it would be sad to see him go (heart) but it's probably the right decision (head) for everyone involved. Managers have a shelf life apart from the very best, even then, circumstances have to be exceptional as well. Yesterday had some unexpected sparks for me. Beat Brighton and we can look positively towards the remaining games. But he needs to state right now to the players who want away, your time here is done. You won't get a send off (tripps the exception) and no game time before the WC. 

This has been my position too, post-derby. Seven games, a week apart. Time on the training ground etc. 

 

It started off as an opportunity to try and nab that final European spot but now it's just about showing that at least with some time to train we can be more organised at the back and show some sort of fluency going forwards. I'm not seeing much of that so far.

 

I still want to see what happens between now and the end of the season before I decide which side of the fence I'm going to end up on.

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, St1pe said:

Nah I think at least one will be shifted at a loss. 
 

Wouldn’t be surprised to see us move for Jackson after Bayern won’t sign him - he’s more of a Howe striker. 

 

Jackson didn't really enter my thoughts tbh, but he makes sense. Not sure he's a finisher either, but would definitely work better than either Wissa or Wolt in a Howe team. If you'd asked me last summer I would have thought Wissa was much the better striker, although obviously being close to 30 years old, not one for the future. 

[Holmesy]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Are you saying there can never be any mitigating factors for a bad season then? By this logic, you can put absolutely any reason beside something the manager should have done to make sure it doesn’t have an effect. Seems a tall order. 

 

 

 

I think a good manager finds a way to adapt and make things work, especially when given as much time as Eddie has been allowed. It hasn’t been 10 games, it has been a pre-season and 60 games.

 

You can either make excuses or find a solution. His solution has been to do the same thing with players who don’t fit his system. Does that sound like good management?

If he had been anyone else, he’d have been binned long before now.

[Keegans Export]

2 hours ago, Heron said:

But our style or play wasn't expected to be as impacted as losing our superstar striker then and all across the summer after chasing multiple candidates to replace said individual and for whatever reason...failing.

 

I do agree a plan B should have been being unearthed either way, albeit maybe not ready for Plan A implementation, however.

Unfortunately that's a failure that the manager has to own. 

 

And if our entire style was built entirely on the foundation of having a 20-goal-per-season striker then those foundations may as well be built on sand. Obviously losing a player like that will have an effect but there's a club that lost 39 goals worth of forwards in the summer and they're currently 3 places ahead of where they finished last season. 

 

It just feels like a coping mechanism, and not enough to justify poor performances front-to-back, game after game.

[St1pe]

Just now, TRon said:

 

Jackson didn't really enter my thoughts tbh, but he makes sense. Not sure he's a finisher either, but would definitely work better than either Wissa or Wolt in a Howe team. If you'd asked me last summer I would have thought Wissa was much the better striker, although obviously being close to 30 years old, not one for the future. 

For the record I think he’s shite but I can see that’s the direction we’d go in 

[Mattoon]

37 minutes ago, Jesse Pinkman said:

Brucey’s lowest finish was 13th and Howe has x7 the spend and overlay and the richest owners backing him. Pretty incredible how poor Howe has been at managing this squad and tactically this season. Likely one of the biggest failures in Newcastle history considering the spend on this squad. 
 

Relegation would be unimaginable.
 

 

 

 

 

Relentlessly negative you mate, having Bruce's name in the same paragraph as Howe, he deserves more respect than that. The bit in bold highlighted again for hyperbole, remind me again where we were in the table when Bruce was sacked and where Howe got us to by the end of the season?

[gbandit]

Got some disgusting fans on here and in the real world. I’m absolutely fine with Howe being criticised. There are lots of things to criticise this season even though I’m still Howe in and think we’ll be a completely different side again next season if he stays. I think his major failing has been overplaying certain players earlier in the season to the point that they’re flagging now. His other major failing is not integrating Wolte effectively. 
 

However, the way some people are talking about him is vile. Criticism is fine, calling him worse than shit and that he hasn’t got an idea what he’s doing is embarrassing and you should stop supporting us if that’s the level of support and critical reasoning you have. Fucking excrement literally pouring out of every other post on here

[The Prophet]

Here me out, but what if managerial limitation was one of several factors at play this season? 

 

There's a lot of fingers being pointed at folk who attribute no blame to Howe, but aren't people who attribute all of the blame to him, just a different side of the same coin?

 

39 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

The reason he can’t is because of his own rigidity. You can find all the excuses you want but everything points back to poor management this season.

 

I agree there's been signs of poor management this season. Poor box defending, strange selections and rigid substitutions certainly don't help Howe's case.

 

39 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Fatique - find a system that manages energy.

Poor summer signings - you signed them. Play to their strengths. 

 

This is a massive oversimplification. We're a limited, injury hit squad, who's played circa 60 games this season.

 

Man City and Liverpool are far more seasoned sides that have suffered from fatigue in recent seasons, but they were able to drop substantial dollar to refresh their squads.

 

It also overlooks mental fatigue and confidence which are both absolute momentum killers.

 

39 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

We lost Isak - you’ve had 60 games to find a solution without him.

 

Again, another massive oversimplification discussed at length above.

 

39 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Aging squad - you kept hold of players you should have let go of. Show us why. 

 

Isn't it pretty obvious? Before last summer we went three transfer windows without being able to spend. This summer may have been mismanaged, but we absolutely targeted the most critical positions.

 

39 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Players not giving 100% - re-engage them by doing something different. 

 

See above on mental fatigue and confidence.

 

39 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

 

I wouldn’t give him another penny to spend, other than replacing outgoings. Show us you can adapt and find a way to get the current (very expensively assembled) players to work and then we’ll consider backing you again.

 

He has adapted and reinvented us over and over. The debate really boils down to whether you think he can do it again. Either way, we will investment to refresh the squad this summer.

 

We don't need to fall into polarised thinking here. It is possible to say that Howe has struggled at points this season, whilst recognising that he's been delt a difficult hand, without calling that an excuse.

 

 

Edited April 26 by The Prophet

[AyeDubbleYoo]

11 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I think a good manager finds a way to adapt and make things work, especially when given as much time as Eddie has been allowed. It hasn’t been 10 games, it has been a pre-season and 60 games.

 

You can either make excuses or find a solution. His solution has been to do the same thing with players who don’t fit his system. Does that sound like good management?

If he had been anyone else, he’d have been binned long before now.

But I mean, by any measure he’s a good manager. If not a great one. 
 

I don’t mind talking about why he should stay or go. I just don’t know if the best approach is to list all the problems and theoretical things he could’ve done to make sure they weren’t problems. Seems too high a standard to hold anyone to IMO. 

[Nucasol]

1 minute ago, gbandit said:

Fucking excrement literally pouring out of every other post on here

Massive overreaction. There’s a small group - max a handful - who have gone down the “True” Geordie (aka The Tarmaccer) route of scorched earth with Eddie and being disrespectful. Many of us are posting rational arguments pro/against him staying. Don’t conflate this to the whole debate. 

[Andy]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

Here me out, but what if managerial limitation was one of several factors at play this season? 

 

There's a lot of fingers being pointed at folk who attribute no blame to Howe, but aren't people who attribute all of the blame to him, just a different side of the same coin?

 

 

I agree there's been signs of poor management this season. Poor box defending, strange selections and rigid substitutions certainly don't help Howe's case.

 

 

This is a massive oversimplification. We're a limited, injury hit squad, who's played circa 60 games this season.

 

Man City and Liverpool are far more seasoned sides that have suffered from fatigue in recent seasons, but they were able to drop substantial dollar to refresh their squads.

 

It also overlooks mental fatigue and confidence which are both absolute momentum killers.

 

 

Again, another massive oversimplification discussed at length above.

 

 

Isn't it pretty obvious? Before last summer we went three transfer windows without being able to spend. This summer may have been mismanaged, but we absolutely targeted the most critical positions.

 

 

See above on mental fatigue and confidence.

 

 

He has adapted and reinvebted us over and over. The debate really boils down to whether you think he can do it again. Either way, we will investment to refresh the squad this summer.

 

We don't need to fall into polarised thinking here. It is possible to say that Howe has struggled at points this season, whilst recognising that he's been delt a difficult hand, without calling that an excuse.

 

The club let Howe down. 

 

Isak fucked us. 

 

Howe has had a bad season tactically and hasn't adapted to the fixture list or (arguably) the change in style across the league in general. 

 

Howe isn't suddenly a bad manager, he may or may not be able to turn it around. History says he absolutely can. 

 

The players have been shite. They may or may not have stopped responding to Howe's tactics, which is a significant problem if so. 

 

All of the above are, I believe, true statements. 

 

The discussion should be whether you believe Eddie can rectify it next season if the club is managed correctly from the top, not whether the entire thing is his fault. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don’t think anyone attributes no mistakes or blame to Howe TBH. It’s a non-position.  

[gbandit]

4 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Massive overreaction. There’s a small group - max a handful - who have gone down the “True” Geordie (aka The Tarmaccer) route of scorched earth with Eddie and being disrespectful. Many of us are posting rational arguments pro/against him staying. Don’t conflate this to the whole debate. 

Disagree that it’s a massive overreaction. There’s informed, logical criticism and there’s people just posting nonstop negative shite that is posted as if it’s a fact when it’s just people’s opinions 

[TK-421]

24 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I think a good manager finds a way to adapt and make things work, especially when given as much time as Eddie has been allowed. It hasn’t been 10 games, it has been a pre-season and 60 games.

 

You can either make excuses or find a solution. His solution has been to do the same thing with players who don’t fit his system. Does that sound like good management?

If he had been anyone else, he’d have been binned long before now.

 

Amorim was pretty much ridiculed by the footy media and then peddled for as much, along with results.

 

 

Edited April 26 by TK-421

[Nucasol]

5 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Disagree that it’s a massive overreaction. There’s informed, logical criticism and there’s people just posting nonstop negative shite that is posted as if it’s a fact when it’s just people’s opinions 

Every other post though?

[Holloway]

There's parallels to the Gordon situation is what I'm seeing, an increasing number have made up their minds, whatever happens next

[Holloway]

13 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Massive overreaction. There’s a small group - max a handful - who have gone down the “True” Geordie (aka The Tarmaccer) route of scorched earth with Eddie and being disrespectful. Many of us are posting rational arguments pro/against him staying. Don’t conflate this to the whole debate. 

Ex roadworker,like 🤔

[SUPERTOON]

Any chance a new poll can be added ? Simple yes or no on if people want him out or not ?

[TK-421]

22 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

Relentlessly negative you mate, having Bruce's name in the same paragraph as Howe, he deserves more respect than that. The bit in bold highlighted again for hyperbole, remind me again where we were in the table when Bruce was sacked and where Howe got us to by the end of the season?

 

The £100m or so he got to spend in that January window went a long way to helping that too, though.

[Nucasol]

Just now, Holloway said:

Ex roadworker,like 🤔

Like Richard Keys, he’s no roadman. 

[Mikky]

7 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

The club let Howe down. 

 

Isak fucked us. 

 

Howe has had a bad season tactically and hasn't adapted to the fixture list or (arguably) the change in style across the league in general. 

 

Howe isn't suddenly a bad manager, he may or may not be able to turn it around. History says he absolutely can. 

 

The players have been shite. They may or may not have stopped responding to Howe's tactics, which is a significant problem if so. 

 

All of the above are, I believe, true statements. 

 

The discussion should be whether you believe Eddie can rectify it next season if the club is managed correctly from the top, not whether the entire thing is his fault. 

I think the structure of the club on the footballing side needs changing in the summer - the Sporting Director HAS to be more accountable - he leads the footballing strategy of the club

 

That doesn’t mean he is at loggerheads with the manager - I think they get on - but he owns who comes in and out, where we finish - he makes the appointments 

 

Its a massive flaw in the club as we’ve not really had stability at DoF level since really the takeover - you need a guy in post for at least 4 years at a time as a minimum - we’ve had 5 in 5 years pretty much - no wonder we are all over the place 

[Holloway]

1 minute ago, Nucasol said:

Like Richard Keys, he’s no roadman. 

I knew that was the next name up 

[Nucasol]

Just now, Holloway said:

I knew that was the next name up 

Provide an assist, I’m going to “smash it” in.

[Minhosa]

Since Hopkinson said this "I expect to have a great run to the end of the season and we'll talk about the future when it's time", we have lost every game.

 

If we continue to lose matches, does this statement render Hopkinson ineffective if he's not seen to act upon it?

 

FWIW, I still think Eddie walks this summer.

 

Having reflected on it loads over the last couple of months, I think the right thing to do is to give him this summer for a few reasons;

 

1) He's the most deserving manager we've ever had in terms of a show of faith. He's a history maker and should be treated as such.

 

2) From an ownership perspective, I think they'd be viewed as a calm, pragmatic and patient employer whenever the time comes to replace Howe (or any other future manager). We don't want reactive owners nor owners influenced by social media reactions.

 

3) There is a lot of mitigation for the cluserfuck of last summer, which Howe must also take accountability for btw.

 

The challenge with all of this is whether the crowd are still with him come next season and aren't going to be hyper sensitive to a couple of poor results.

 

The derby (h) was the game where he lost a huge amount of good faith inside the stadium imho. I don't recall many (any?) pulling it back from this point.

 

 

Edited April 26 by Minhosa