The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Cf said: Yeah that's fair. But I can't help but feel there's a certain element of it's not hard to be world class at a world class club. You can obviously fail at that level. But at the same time I suspect there's plenty of managers who'd be just as good as the ones you mention if given a chance. Eddie will get his chance here over the next few years if appropriately supported. How come so many managers fail then? Edit: at the highest level I think respect is hard earned and easily lost. And then the game moves on. Jose Mourinho is a top 10 manager of the last 30 years. Multiple successful jobs at the elite level. Yet he’s firmly outside the elite now. Can only get a job at a non-elite Serie A club. Benitez done at the top level. Only lasted 4 months at his last elite gig. Edited January 3 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: How come so many managers fail then? Exactly this....plenty of world class managers fail at world class clubs. Has to be the right time and fit for both. Man U are a great example of this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 30 minutes ago, Matt1892 said: One is a situation that could potentially happen which is why other clubs complained to the FA about it, whereas the other could potentially happen but would be no cause for complaint as neither party is linked. The same way that a vote was held to try and stop clubs loaning players in from other clubs with the same owner, it is seen as an advantage and something that could be done. We don’t know if either will happen or not but it isn’t beyond belief that it could happen, that isn’t just me believing it but other clubs too, hence why complaints and a vote took place. Either way, PSG didn't bid for Wilson and no Saudi club bid for Almiron so maybe move on from FFP fantasy discussions and criticisms of things that never did happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee_Johnny Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, thomas said: I love him dearly and he’s really good but if Eddie is considered world class then the label has lost all meaning. Take your point if you equate world class with achievements to date. Clubs served, trophies won. If someone is expressing an opinion that Eddie Howe has an absolutely top drawer range of leadership and tactical attributes which put in him the upper echelons of football managers, regardless of country/league, then I think saying ‘he is world class’ is decent shorthand. Edited January 3 by Coffee_Johnny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butcher Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I’m just embarrassed that the club has felt the need to come out with that statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: You don't think Ancelotti, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Simeone - managers that have won multiple league titles and other Cups aren't world class? Below that you have your De Zerbi's, Xabi Alonso's who seem destined to get an opportunity at one of the mega clubs sooner or later. Alonso might even do the Rafa, Mourinho, Simeone & Klopp thing of winning major titles against the establishment. They might be world class managers, but we don't have a world class team yet, and might not do for another 3 years unless FFP is challenged and removed. But the real point is we don't know if Howe is that world class manager elect. What if he had a world class team instead of just 3-4 genuine stars? Doesn't he deserve the chance to show what he can do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TRon said: They might be world class managers, but we don't have a world class team yet, and might not do for another 3 years unless FFP is challenged and removed. But the real point is we don't know if Howe is that world class manager elect. What if he had a world class team instead of just 3-4 genuine stars? Doesn't he deserve the chance to show what he can do? All I was objecting to was labeling him world class right now. He could very well go on to be such, at which point my opinion will change and everyone can tell me “we told you so!” It was not a judgement on whether or not we should keep/sack him Edited January 3 by thomas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Justice is the wrong way to look at Xg imo. Better quality players overperform Xg and vice versa. Team with best Goalie over performs Xga is not a shocker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, thomas said: All I was objecting to was labeling him world class right now. He could very well go on to be such, at which point my opinion will change and everyone can tell me “we told you so!” Yeah we can't call him world class now by any stretch of the imagination. He's more the exciting new breed looking to make a name for himself - which he's done very well for two years now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, gbandit said: Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin I was thinking about Liverpool. Didn’t even notice Villa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, gbandit said: Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin West Ham and Man Utd also have big variance. In fact Man Utd is absolutely honking where their expectation peers are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Look at Brentford. Would be interested to see xG over a larger sample size in the Premier League. Say, 150 games, would tell us how impressive xG is as a genuine predictor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 minutes ago, gbandit said: Look at Brentford. Would be interested to see xG over a larger sample size in the Premier League. Say, 150 games, would tell us how impressive xG is as a genuine predictor Gotta be similar to goal difference. Doesn't always reflect your position but more games you include the more correlation between higher position predictor. Maybe less accurate as its expected over delivered, but should have some correlation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 25 minutes ago, gbandit said: Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently. Man UFC are the spawniest cunts going, like. I wish Bruno Fernandes got injured for once because they might actually get relegated without him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, Smal said: they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently. Man UFC are the spawniest cunts going, like. I wish Bruno Fernandes got injured for once because they might actually get relegated without him. Something we should remember about Newcastle as well. Reading loads of stuff about how we overachieved last season, or that our tactics have been found out etc. All again just ignoring the massive injured elephant in the room Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 48 minutes ago, Smal said: they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently. Man UFC are the spawniest cunts going, like. I wish Bruno Fernandes got injured for once because they might actually get relegated without him. He is clearly very good and is much better than Gerrard but even a 38-game season isn't a very big sample size statistically. Union Berlin are a great example of this, who were the underlying-numbers overachievers in Europe last year. Now things look much less great for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellars Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 The increased number of fixtures, plus having something of a target on our back, meant that this was always likely to be a "retrenching" year. We've probably had the most challenging ficture list in the world (PL + CL Group of Death + Tough LC Draws), while having a terrible injury crisis and having our highest profile summer signing banned. Getting into the Europa league was my expectation for this season. That is still very possible, especially as the fixture list lightens up and injured players return. Given all that I think Eddie has done a fine job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said: Take your point if you equate world class with achievements to date. Clubs served, trophies won. If someone is expressing an opinion that Eddie Howe has an absolutely top drawer range of leadership and tactical attributes which put in him the upper echelons of football managers, regardless of country/league, then I think saying ‘he is world class’ is decent shorthand. Howe isn’t there yet on the tactics attributes etc either. That doesn’t mean he won’t get there, but I don’t think it’s arguable that his tactical shortcomings have been exposed somewhat - he’s ploughed on with the same playing styles irrespective of injuries, fixture congestion, and opponents. If past experience is owt to go by, I’m sure he’ll be back to the drawing board when the season ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonalis Bookie Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 On 02/01/2024 at 18:01, Doc said: It would surely be easier for you to say what your old log in was than having Sifu vouch for you, I'm sure other posters will remember it. Unless of course, you don't have one that is. happy to satisfy the masses - Dazzanufc1892 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Smal said: they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently. Like you've said, over a calendar year, we're second in the league. That's a long period of time to be consistent over. To paraphrase some golf player (Gary Player, maybe), "it's funny, the more we practice, the luckier we get" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWMag Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, Thomson Mouse said: I’m just embarrassed that the club has felt the need to come out with that statement. What statement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 27 minutes ago, NWMag said: What statement? Appointing Bruce as Manager all those years ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Jagten said: He is clearly very good and is much better than Gerrard but even a 38-game season isn't a very big sample size statistically. Union Berlin are a great example of this, who were the underlying-numbers overachievers in Europe last year. Now things look much less great for them. 38 games is a great number of games for a season. Allows variance to play it's part but not too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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