BShearer Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 this season is a bit of a reality check for Howe but also for the club in terms of if we want to be a PL/CL force what we need to improve on an look out for. all the injuries, the sick schedule increase, the group of death CL draw, the horrific Carabao draw. these can be excuses but then excuses wont get us to be a PL/CL force. we need to improve on these and learn from them a lot and also on the transfers which were generally quite on the hit since takeover until the summer window. this time tho the way it turned out this was a mediocre window in hindsight which helped us not much really apart from the few good games Livramento had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Jagten said: For fans of charts, our rolling average expected goals diff has closed. It is very rare to see an averaged xG go limit-up like that. Some interesting analysis on what is now probably the most porous defense in the league here https://x.com/jon_mackenzie/status/1746354228828766487?s=46 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLUMPO235 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 For me, delia smith is a good cook, but if there is fuck all in the fridge that doesn’t suddenly make her a bad one. Mind you, I made a delia recipe cake once, Didn’t work properly, I don’t think the recipe was right. So, like Eddie, no one’s perfect or beyond criticism. Jeez, need some sleep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Very well said. A few people are just perpetually pessimistic for the sake of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraguy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 7 hours ago, UncleBingo said: This. Be careful what you wish for. Love him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. This, with fucking bells on 5 hours ago, imChris said: This needs to be a pinned post on this forum. Well said. Tattooed on some cunts ample forehead, more like 😜 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancrate1892 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, FLUMPO235 said: For me, delia smith is a good cook, but if there is fuck all in the fridge that doesn’t suddenly make her a bad one. Mind you, I made a delia recipe cake once, Didn’t work properly, I don’t think the recipe was right. So, like Eddie, no one’s perfect or beyond criticism. Jeez, need some sleep. Also...sometimes the fridge is broken, or when she's trying to cook there's also a madman in the kitchen with a knife Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Print it out and hang it in Louvre. Spot on mate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Absolutely spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Yes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Can I shake your hand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) Howe is a victim of his own success. All the positives in terms of impact that he’s had which Kid Icarus has outlined above have led to a meteoric rise in stature. Thats meant for some fans I feel a sense that the standards/league position/champions league qualification cannot drop at all irrespective of circumstances, which is unrealistic. I disagreed with my local journo mate when he said that the club absolutely HAS to finish in the top four now have qualified last year. I just don’t think that’s realistic with the squad we have. I mean even if we’d had everyone fit or just a couple of injuries qualifying for the top four and managing extra games with the champions league would’ve been tough. Howe can and I imagine will adapt tactically and learn from this current situation which has been very challenging but there’s no way his position should be questioned currently. Yes people can comment on or question things he’s done recently but ultimately the injury crisis this season has been the worst I can remember and has completely knackered what we’ve been able to do as a team. Even having 2 or 3 subs (e.g Barnes, Anderson, Wilson) to bring on last night and we’d probably have at least held on for a draw. Edited January 14 by ExiledGeordie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Howe’s @RUHRLYASLEEVESUP this morning? You ok sausage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, RS said: Howe’s @RUHRLYASLEEVESUP this morning? You ok sausage? Leave them alone, YFDC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I still like Eddie and don't want him sacked but he must look at the system. It's clear the intensity can't be there this year. So he's created some sort of deeper press system. The problem is a lot of teams play a 10, and now we are not winning the ball back high up the field, we are 1 pass from having the opposition 10 bearing down on the defence. If you watch is off the ball, the three midfielders almost sit in a flat line and press together. I feel this is the issue as if they fail at this (and the players we have in there at the minute invariably do, physical limitations seem to be the likely cause) then we are so easy to pass through. I think Eddie has been extremely unlucky. But I also would like to see some action on this front as carrying on will inevitably lead to big issues for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) the biggest problem with the system at the moment is that the defensive line is playing about 15 yards deeper than it usually does since Pope’s injury. That’s why those gaps between defence and midfield are even bigger than usual. Last season we had Schar and Botman stepping up and marking opposition forwards into midfield, but it’s just not happening anymore because the distances are too big. It’s not a coincidence that our xG conceded has gone up massively since Pope’s injury. Edited January 14 by Smal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. What post, fucking nail well and truly on head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 hours ago, Jagten said: Some interesting analysis on what is now probably the most porous defense in the league here https://x.com/jon_mackenzie/status/1746354228828766487?s=46 Started circa November time? Weird that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloGeordio Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronson333 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 19 minutes ago, Smal said: the biggest problem with the system at the moment is that the defensive line is playing about 15 yards deeper than it usually does since Pope’s injury. That’s why those gaps between defence and midfield are even bigger than usual. Last season we had Schar and Botman stepping up and marking opposition forwards into midfield, but it’s just not happening anymore because the distances are too big. It’s not a coincidence that our xG conceded has gone up massively since Pope’s injury. Very good post and probably explains why the gap is so noticeable at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggys First Goal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: FWIW I even find the discussion a bit absurd. I'm not sure if Ashley completely damaged the collective mindset of the fanbase or we're just damaged by nature and the stereotype is true, but we're talking about a manager who: Survived serious relegation threat at a canter Took us to the Champions League with loads of the same squad the next season, something that just doesn't happen outside of fiction. Has us playing attacking, exciting football Has improved every player we have without exception Has us regularly battering teams, including the very best ones, in a style that I would call typically Keeganesque, or early Liverpool-era Klopp. And we're at best feeling the need to talk about how he's still the man for the job and we back him because: Let's be honest, some of our fans are mental and we don't want them or anyone like them representing the fanbase We're 10th We're out of a Champions League group made up of PSG, Dortmund and AC Milan that we were cheated out of We've had a sticky patch Even though: We've had the worst injury hit season in my lifetime, probably twice or three times over Our big summer signing is banned The thing that's in front of your eyes - the players blowing out of their arses and the last minute conceded goals - should all be so blindingly obvious as the big factor We're still handing out hidings when we've been fit, had options of the bench, or been rested this season. Like, are we fucking insane? Are you all out of your fucking minds? Howe is a gift from the gods and some are looking a gift horse in the mouth under this daft guise of 'no-one is exempt from criticism' If Ashley and Bruce was 10 years ago I'd probably get it, the standards have been raised and the memory of those days is long gone. But it was just over 2 years ago and in football terms we've gone from purgatorial hell marketed as heaven, to actual heaven curbed by hellish circumstances. How do you go from stubbornly enduring one to fickley taking the other for granted in that space of time? It's remarkable. It shouldn't even be a topic for debate, it should be a given that every one of us back him to the hilt, he's not a legend but as far as our clubs recent history he's closer than anyone. Got so erect reading this. Thanks, KI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begbie Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 15 minutes ago, Smal said: the biggest problem with the system at the moment is that the defensive line is playing about 15 yards deeper than it usually does since Pope’s injury. That’s why those gaps between defence and midfield are even bigger than usual. Last season we had Schar and Botman stepping up and marking opposition forwards into midfield, but it’s just not happening anymore because the distances are too big. It’s not a coincidence that our xG conceded has gone up massively since Pope’s injury. Totally agree with what you are saying. Also need to be mentioned Popes communication with the players are so much better than Dubravkas, and I also think this makes our defenders drop the extra yard in fear of the attacker getting space behind them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 League only: xG conceded per 90 pre-Pope injury: 1.02 xG conceded per 90 post-Pope injury: 3.16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 We’ve had the issue with the flatness of the midfield 3 and the gap between defence and midfield for a long time. Before Pope’s injury. But I can accept it’s been made worse by his injury. It’s a long standing structural issue. It’s highly mitigated when we can play with top intensity. That requires our top athletes to be fit and in good physical form (Willock, Joelinton, Longstaff, Tonali, the wingers and attackers). We’ve not had that since November. I don’t think it’s strictly a case of ‘being figured out’ at all. We’ve not been able to execute it as intended for months. My frustration remains not trying to mitigate the approach that hasn’t worked for months. I’ve seen the same second half so many times this season. People often say ‘I believe Howe will learn and adapt’ and I don’t see much evidence for that atm. Rather I think we’ll be able to play effective Howe ball soon and with that we’ll get better results. One thing I expect him to learn from is managing load better and taking less risks with injuries. I believe Howe does go against medical advice and plays players if they are willing to give it a go. Schar one in particular. He needs to stop that and take a conservative approach. With that - he needs to be more pragmatic in his approach to attacking competitions too. I’ve got a lot of love for Eddie. We need a massive push after the Villa game. But we need players back and to take it easy with them as they do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 20 minutes ago, Smal said: League only: xG conceded per 90 pre-Pope injury: 1.02 xG conceded per 90 post-Pope injury: 3.16 And like 10 of our goals conceded 'post-Pope' have been individual errors, mostly attributed to one player who wasn't making those errors with Pope. We've had the easy to exploit gap between defence and midfield all season...we saw it in pre-season ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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