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Eddie Howe

InspectorCoarse

by InspectorCoarse
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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

Benitez rubbing the players up the wrong way isn’t proof that they didn’t understand his tactical genius.  You’re talking about some of the best players in the world in the Real Madrid side - do you honestly think all they’d had was some pep talks prior to Benitez rocking up?  This isn’t to say that Benitez wasn’t a top manager in his prime.  But Ancelotti, Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho aren’t tactical managers - it was all just pep talks and a bit of coaching?  Haddaway man.

 

And you can knock the insults on the head.  

You’re missing the fundamental point. I’m not claiming these managers have no tactics, are tactically incompetent etc. That’s impossible given their success.  I’m saying that wasn’t what made them the best, not their USP.  

 

You’re doing the thing I’m rallying against. ‘Tactics’ isn’t the holy grail of football management. You’re reducing the rest of football management to ‘pep talks’ and it’s not that simple.  The game is about getting the best out of 11 talented young men. Telling them in great detail what to do, isn’t always the best way to succeed. ‘Tactics’ aren’t the best and end all of football management is my core point - the best managers don’t have to be the best tacticians. Like the best player in the world doesn’t have to be the best athlete.  The best player in the world can’t be a bad athlete, he has to be god enough but his relative strengths can lay elsewhere (substitute athleticism for technical ability or whatever else).  
 

—-

Carlo’s ability to get the best out of elite players is his USP. He saw something in Jude no other manager saw and supported it tactically with the false 9.  Or moving Pirlo to 6 from 10 then flanking him with runners. Thats how he finds his margins - creating platforms for the best players to express themselves. That can be more important than managers who focus more on tactical setups and coaching. That’s Howe moving Joelinton to midfield (although that was serendipitous).  
 

Like I said - listen to players talk about managers. Every player talks about how specific Rafa is tactically. Most of the more talented players don’t talk positively of it - it’s stifling. Henry complained about Pep telling him where to stand, where to run until he saw that it worked. 

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TheBrownBottle

TheBrownBottle

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You’re missing the fundamental point. I’m not claiming these managers have no tactics, are tactically incompetent etc. That’s impossible given their success.  I’m saying that wasn’t what made them the best, not their USP.  

 

You’re doing the thing I’m rallying against. ‘Tactics’ isn’t the holy grail of football management. You’re reducing the rest of football management to ‘pep talks’ and it’s not that simple.  The game is about getting the best out of 11 talented young men. Telling them in great detail what to do, isn’t always the best way to succeed. ‘Tactics’ aren’t the best and end all of football management is my core point - the best managers don’t have to be the best tacticians. Like the best player in the world doesn’t have to be the best athlete.  The best player in the world can’t be a bad athlete, he has to be god enough but his relative strengths can lay elsewhere (substitute athleticism for technical ability or whatever else).  
 

—-

Carlo’s ability to get the best out of elite players is his USP. He saw something in Jude no other manager saw and supported it tactically with the false 9.  Or moving Pirlo to 6 from 10 then flanking him with runners. Thats how he finds his margins - creating platforms for the best players to express themselves. That can be more important than managers who focus more on tactical setups and coaching. That’s Howe moving Joelinton to midfield (although that was serendipitous).  
 

Like I said - listen to players talk about managers. Every player talks about how specific Rafa is tactically. Most of the more talented players don’t talk positively of it - it’s stifling. Henry complained about Pep telling him where to stand, where to run until he saw that it worked. 

I’ve always respected your POV, TCD.  I know you genuinely think about this - but I just can’t agree with the fundamentals of your original point.  I don’t think that managers at elite level are categorisable - I think the differences are slight.

 

I write this with all the due respect possible - I just don’t think that managers at that level slot into easy boxes. 

 

 

Edited by TheBrownBottle

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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Geogaddi said:

Mourinho is definitely a tactical manager mind , in fact he's basically just a much better version of Benitez .

Don’t agree. At his pomp Mourinho was tactically great but he was never a manager to have a strong offensive tactical approach game to game. He let his offensive players  express themselves. 
 

But he was a brilliant man manager at his pomp. The players believed in him and would run through brick walls for him. Which was needed because his management approach focussed on working extremely hard and putting bodies on the line.  And he would bring fanbases with him. And that would always be his undoing - his abrasive motivation style stops working and it implodes.  
 

In 2024 tactically he’s not kept up with the elite - same as Rafa and to a lesser extent Carlo (who was always less tactically focussed anyway).  But the bigger issue is he’s not able to bring players/fans under his spell anymore.  Or for long enough.  A lot of that is personality. The broadly defensive tactics doesn’t help with buy-in either.  That buy-in is everything in football.  A team that buys into the manager is a good team.  Fast to the ball, sharp mentally etc. Similarly losing the dressing room is everything too. 

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TheBrownBottle

TheBrownBottle

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Don’t agree. At his pomp Mourinho was tactically great but he was never a manager to have a strong offensive tactical approach game to game. He let his offensive players  express themselves. 
 

But he was a brilliant man manager at his pomp. The players believed in him and would run through brick walls for him. Which was needed because his management approach focussed on working extremely hard and putting bodies on the line.  And he would bring fanbases with him. And that would always be his undoing - his abrasive motivation style stops working and it implodes.  
 

In 2024 tactically he’s not kept up with the elite - same as Rafa and to a lesser extent Carlo (who was always less tactically focussed anyway).  But the bigger issue is he’s not able to bring players/fans under his spell anymore.  Or for long enough.  A lot of that is personality. The broadly defensive tactics doesn’t help with buy-in either.  That buy-in is everything in football.  A team that buys into the manager is a good team.  Fast to the ball, sharp mentally etc. Similarly losing the dressing room is everything too. 

Can’t agree with this TCG.  Mourinho’s tactics were boiled down to ‘Parking the bus’.   But this was bollocks.  You don’t win the European Cup with Porto and Inter based on half-baked tactics 

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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Can’t agree with this TCG.  Mourinho’s tactics were boiled down to ‘Parking the bus’.   But this was bollocks.  You don’t win the European Cup with Porto and Inter based on half-baked tactics 

No I don’t think he parked the bus. He was astute tactically defensively and built a platform to get the best out of his attacking players.  
 

But tactics weren’t the edge that won those European trophies imo. His ability to build a team so focussed, determined, great team spirit imo gave him the edge along with the defensive tactics and platform for the attackers. The UEFA Cup they were outright the best.  But the 2 CLs particular the Man au and Barca games - his ability to get young men to lock in and put it all on the line, find a bit of magic when needed is what gave him the edge imo. 
 

Again - not to say tactics aren’t important. But it’s not the be all and end all. What made Mourinho truly great was a human thing. That’s what all the ex-pro’s say - he got into their heads and unlocked something.  Until it stops working.  

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Erikse

Erikse

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sometimes he is frustratingly slow and conservative, but when things are at its worst he often tries to change some things. And it often works some way or another aswell. Well played. Hoping it lasts.

 

 

Edited by Erikse

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midds

midds

Posted
Posted

That was excellent like. Nullified one of the best teams in the country and took one of the chances we created. Thoroughly deserved the win, kept them at arm's length and MotM could have been any one of 6 or 7 of them. He needed a couple of performances after the Chelsea result and he's gone and knocked them out of the Cup and smashed Arsenal's challenge to pieces. 

 

Fantastic result AND performance, genuinely thrilled for him personally :) 

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