Eddie Howe

[Scoot]

Eddie will have to take a lot of the blame today but we have to remember we haven't signed anyone of note for 18 months now. He's done fantastic to get us to where we are with the same squad basically.

 

We have a huge summer ahead. The whole squad needs a refresh plus extra bodies for competition and if that means letting someone like Gordon leave for big money then so be it.

[J7]

20 minutes ago, Heron said:

Outliers like PSG? Arsenal in two Cup semi finals? The cup semi finals we played against Southampton? The Big games we played for Premier League survival like every other week for the second half of Howes first season? The derby game? Man United away in the cup? Chelsea & Forest this year in the cup? Smashing Spurs within 22mins or something to be 5 up? PSG away where we we cheated? Milan away where we battled hard, and scraped a draw.

 

A lot of this is subjective I guess. Define a big game. Define playing well. Etc. I just don't agree that we don't turn up in big games and there is plenty of evidence to suggest we do, just not all them.

PSG? It was before the Milan game which ended up mattering. Southampton were shite, as were Sunderland. The survival games were years ago. 
 

I did try and separate big games with the season defining type games, but you clearly just ignored that. I’m not including early round cup ties or league games in the middle of the season, regardless of who they’re against. I’m meaning the chips are down and you achieve something type games. 

[Bimpy474]

For me when you have a team that's good because of the sum of it's parts, when you don't upgrade the weaker parts we get performances like today, and the inconsistency. Especially if your great players have a bad day.

 

With a few great players, a sprinkling of good ones, and too many average ones, we're what are, and have been for the last two seasons.  We need to freshen the squad and upgrade those average players. And in that, those better players have that better mentality, and have fewer poor performances, and can help drag the team along in games, even when your better players have an off day. 

 

Now Eddie isn't clear of blame, he reacts too slow to how games are going, very much when they're going badly. However, he needs new and better players, and we'll soon see if he's as good as some of us think, or as limited as a fair few think.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 17:48 by Bimpy474

[Stifler]

Just now, Heron said:

Okay, I see your point more here to be fair.

 

However, I don't really see why that would be under question at this stage. We're almost in essence saying we're 90mins from being "next level". He's only been here like 3 years or sumit...

 

Gotta be reasonable, and with all the FFP constraints etc. I think it's unfair to suggest he is incapable of being the person to take us to silverware. That's opinion though.

I see your points, but to me today was one of those crunch games. If we turned up and played like we can, I think we beat a fragile Man City team that they are right now, and with Chelsea losing last night, that would have given us the advantage point so to speak in the fight for the top 4.

 

The fear from the fans is that we do that in the cup final.

We are also in a position where I believe anyone left in FA Cup, we should be able to beat if we turn up.

I also don’t think our owners will be as patient and others like to think. Even though we haven’t been able to better our squad, I think they will see it as Eddie having had a lack of European games and a better squad overall than the chasing pack to get in to Europe and get 5th place if it results in a Champions League place.

I also think from their point of view, they will be very fearful that we could become a Spurs, where we have a squad capable of competing, and are capable of beating anyone, but never do.

 

In my opinion I think if we play as well as we can do, we can beat Liverpool and win the cup. I think we have the potential to be our own greatest enemy.

[Matt1892]

At the beginning of the season I thought he needed to get European football as a minimum to be here next season, but I’m not sure how the decision makers will view it if we finish below Bournemouth or Forest, as we can rightfully blame FFP for not being able to compete with City and Liverpool but they won’t see any excuse to be behind those clubs.

 

Today is only one game but our league performances are patchy at best, throw in the cup final and it feels quite Ten Hag-esque this season.

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Stifler said:

I see your points, but to me today was one of those crunch games. If we turned up and played like we can, I think we beat a fragile Man City team that they are right now, and with Chelsea losing last night, that would have given us the advantage point so to speak in the fight for the top 4.

 

The fear from the fans is that we do that in the cup final.

We are also in a position where I believe anyone left in FA Cup, we should be able to beat if we turn up.

I also don’t think our owners will be as patient and others like to think. Even though we haven’t been able to better our squad, I think they will see it as Eddie having had a lack of European games and a better squad overall than the chasing pack to get in to Europe and get 5th place if it results in a Champions League place.

I also think from their point of view, they will be very fearful that we could become a Spurs, where we have a squad capable of competing, and are capable of beating anyone, but never do.

 

In my opinion I think if we play as well as we can do, we can beat Liverpool and win the cup. I think we have the potential to be our own greatest enemy.

That fragile Man City were in better form than us. What were we ?

[Infinitely Content]

Regarding Howe and the team, the only concern or criticism I would have (which isn't really a criticism at all, more an observation) is regarding the runs we go on. Looking as far back as his time at Bournemouth he is able to put together these ludicrous winning runs followed by some fairly abject performances which look concerning in isolation. It seems confidence and momentum count for more than anything in football including skill, and I just hope we're not hitting one of these poor runs at precisely the wrong time. 

[toon25]

There's absolutely no way Eddie would have expected that shite today, like

[joeyt]

40 minutes ago, Stifler said:

I mean my point is that so far, when it really matters against good teams where we need a result to go to the next level, we have faltered.

 

In his first season it was the cup final.

Last season it was against Man Utd in the League, and AC Milan in the Champions League, and I think we should include the Chelsea League Cup match as I believe a result there would have too us to the final again, and Man Utd when we were battle for Europe.

 

In all of those cases we lost the game. With Man Utd we beat them twice in mid season games that were not ‘crunch’ games in regards to our season, then went on to lose to them when it mattered again, @Froggy actually pointed this out, albeit in the manner he does say it in.

 

I’m not discounting what Howe has done. When he came in we were down, we were fucking out and gone, and our new owners were realistically looking at having to start to project as a Championship club. He came in and we very nearly got in to the top 10 never mind stayed up. In the space of about 18 months he has taken us from relegated without even a whimper, to a team finishing in the European places. We have elevated up levels. I can’t deny that, and I commend him for it.

 

However, there have been some people questioning if he is the man to take us to the next and final step and that would be to win a cup or at the very least challenge for the title. So far he has yet to do that, we have yet to just finish off games where the real pressure is on us.

 

I think you're cherry picking games to suit your argument

 

He's won plenty of big games and crunch games. He's also lost some. It happens

[Kilcline]

Got it massively wrong today.

 

Eddie is Our King.

[Heron]

21 minutes ago, J7 said:

PSG? It was before the Milan game which ended up mattering. Southampton were shite, as were Sunderland. The survival games were years ago. 
 

I did try and separate big games with the season defining type games, but you clearly just ignored that. I’m not including early round cup ties or league games in the middle of the season, regardless of who they’re against. I’m meaning the chips are down and you achieve something type games. 

Big games aren't just the finals or the crunch scenarios though there are big games that lead you those 'end' games.

 

It also doesn't matter if a team is shite, it can be a big game. The derby was a big game and always will be a big game irrespective of league.

 

You weren't particularly clear in your 'dividing'. You're now divvying up your argument to make it relevant tbh.

You have to win big games to even be in crunch games. So we discussed big games. So we're now basing Eddie Howes capability to take us to the next level on a 2-1 loss to Milan and a 2-0 final loss to Man United? Give owa.

 

 

[Heron]

55 minutes ago, Stifler said:

I see your points, but to me today was one of those crunch games. If we turned up and played like we can, I think we beat a fragile Man City team that they are right now, and with Chelsea losing last night, that would have given us the advantage point so to speak in the fight for the top 4.

 

The fear from the fans is that we do that in the cup final.

We are also in a position where I believe anyone left in FA Cup, we should be able to beat if we turn up.

I also don’t think our owners will be as patient and others like to think. Even though we haven’t been able to better our squad, I think they will see it as Eddie having had a lack of European games and a better squad overall than the chasing pack to get in to Europe and get 5th place if it results in a Champions League place.

I also think from their point of view, they will be very fearful that we could become a Spurs, where we have a squad capable of competing, and are capable of beating anyone, but never do.

 

In my opinion I think if we play as well as we can do, we can beat Liverpool and win the cup. I think we have the potential to be our own greatest enemy.

We are our own greatest enemy because we go into a tailspin whenever we lose and think we're the best team on then planet when we win.

 

We seem to be flip-flapping from big to season defining to crunch games now in an attempt to categorise games and tbh I find it all a bit bizarre. Today wasn't a crunch game for sure if we're saying crunch games are the final games to make something specific happen or be achieved. Nor is it season defining - its 3 points in a league that is highly close and competitive - in which case it can only be argued as a big game (which it absolutely was). We were shite, we lost. However, we have beaten sides and not lost to sides who are above or around us this season in equally as big games and therefore, if that's the basis for this debate as moreso as @J7  alludes to then it's incorrect what yous chaps are saying.

 

You are absolutely correct if we're talking cup finals as being those games though...

 

 

Edited Saturday at 18:43 by Heron

[TRon]

25 minutes ago, toon25 said:

There's absolutely no way Eddie would have expected that shite today, like

 

He needs to spot these things coming though. He's not going to get it right every time, just to put it in perspective. He's won plenty of these battles as well, but we have been on the end of a few hidings now, so seems like when we get it wrong, we get it badly wrong.

[Erikse]

On 25/05/2023 at 16:56, Erikse said:

I don't necessarily agree with some people saying it's very concerning that we couldn't break down a team who parked the bus, we were very unlucky. Also being ineffective in some games against relegation fighting teams can happen to anyone. We will probably get some players in the window who can score some of those chances or open up defences like that. The thing that did concern me a little bit was the last 10 minutes. We've been fine in high pressure games lately, and did okay against Leicester (not looking too nervous) until the last 10. But when it really mattered towards the end, they started making silly mistakes because of the nerves. It was really obvious just by watching it on TV, and Howe said it himself. Being able to handle nerves in the most important games are so crucial. Teams in the Champions League will punish us for that easily. Our defenders kept passing the ball around only to lose it any time Leicester started putting them under a bit of pressure. They looked like they were panicking at the end. Hopefully this is not something that repeats itself, especially with players of higher quality coming in.

 

 

 

 

From that Leicester 0-0 game. The signs were there. On that occasion it was our players who started acting up, kind of like when Schär went on that solo run. I think we just lack the mentality in the most crucial games. I don't count a Carabao semifinal as "the most" crucial. Whether that's all on the players, or if it's also on Howe, is a bit hard to tell. We have some players who never thought they would even play in these kinds of games a few years ago.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 18:28 by Erikse

[Heron]

2 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

 

From that Leicester 0-0 game. The signs were there. On that occasion it was our players who started acting up, kind of like when Schär went on that solo run. I think we just lack the mentality in the most crucial games. I don't count a Carabao semifinal as "the most" crucial.

It is until you make a final though, surely?

[Erikse]

10 minutes ago, Heron said:

It is until you make a final though, surely?

 

I'd say in terms of nerves, the difference between a semi final and a final is massive. Where do we draw the line? Is the carabao quarter final seen as a huge game if we haven't been in the semi final for a long time? The sort of "big games" that are talked about?

 

 

Edited Saturday at 18:39 by Erikse

[Erikse]

There's no team in the world that loses all the high pressure games. Generally we do well in several of those. But, some can't handle it when the pressure is too high. So far, it looks like we have a ceiling when it comes to that.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 18:45 by Erikse

[Heron]

4 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I'd say in terms of nerves, the difference between a semi final and a final is massive. Where do we draw the line? Is the carabao quarter final seen as a huge game if we haven't been in the semi final for a long time? The sort of "big games" that are talked about?

 

 

 

Aye. Because they're all relative. Quarter finals aren't now big games to us on the whole but that's because we've managed said "big game" previously and now consider it a normality thanks to Eddie Howes ability to have won such fixtures...

[Erikse]

Just now, Heron said:

Aye. Because they're all relative. Quarter finals aren't now big games to us on the whole but that's because we've managed said "big game" previously and now consider it a normality thanks to Eddie Howes ability to have won such fixtures...

 

See my post above.

[Bellis80]

I think it’s more a case of have we ever played as well as we can do in an away game against a good side? Even playing well without getting a result? Only the Arsenal cup game I think and maybe the game at Anfield where Isak had one disallowed. To be so good at home and still not be going and laying a glove on the better teams is frustrating.

[Kilcline]

4 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I'd say in terms of nerves, the difference between a semi final and a final is massive. Where do we draw the line? Is the carabao quarter final seen as a huge game if we haven't been in the semi final for a long time? The sort of "big games" that are talked about?

 

 

 

Different discussion, but hopefully we're in the midst of a mentality shift where at Newcastle United Football Club the next game is always the "most crucial" and it doesn't matter who we're playing. That's the line between very good and greatness 

 

 

[Whitley mag]

I think for our Cup Final chances alone it’s imperative we up our game considerably in the next 2 fixtures to go in with any confidence of beating them.

 

Forrest will let us have all the possession next week will Eddie have a plan, or will we just get picked off as per by these teams.

 

The transfer situation has been shit, but with no Europe and a full week to prepare for fixtures, days like today are deeply concerning going forward.

 

Last season we were tired and this season we’ve gone stale, he probably gets next season even if he finishes below the likes of Bournemouth, Forrest and Brighton missing out on Europe, but really think he needs to move the dial to convince me that he’s the manager to take us to next level.

 

The final will be very interesting, he was outdone by a much maligned manager on here 2 years ago, yes Liverpool are far superior, but we need to make a game of it and perform on the big stage for once.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 18:53 by Whitley mag

[Heron]

4 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

See my post above.

Fair. We will learnt hat through experience though, as everyone does.

[Stifler]

14 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

I think for our Cup Final chances alone it’s imperative we up our game considerably in the next 2 fixtures to go in with any confidence of beating them.

 

Forrest will let us have all the possession next week will Eddie have a plan, or will we just get picked off as per by these teams.

 

The transfer situation has been shit, but with no Europe and a full week to prepare for fixtures, days like today are deeply concerning going forward.

 

Last season we were tired and this season we’ve gone stale, he probably gets next season even if he finishes below the likes of Bournemouth, Forrest and Brighton missing out on Europe, but really think he needs to move the dial to convince me that he’s the manager to take us to next level.

 

The final will be very interesting, he was outdone by a much maligned manager on here 2 years ago, yes Liverpool are far superior, but we need to make a game of it and perform on the big stage for once.

 

 

 

He’ll get the summer and such. However if we have no trophy, miss out on CL and possibly European football altogether, then I don’t think he gets to get to December in the position that we were in going into the Leicester match this season.

 

Hopefully it doesn’t come to that. Hopefully on Monday 17th March we are all still celebrating and making excuses to our bosses as to why we aren’t coming in (I’ve already got that day off), and maybe just maybe we have cup doubles, or made a decent end of season effort to get into the Champions League.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 19:04 by Stifler

[Maggies]

He needs to find a way where our poor performances aren’t so poor. At least make ourselves difficult to beat. On our day we’re a match for anyone, but when we drop off we drop very low.

 

Part of me can understand that due to not developing the squad. Poor performances from players like Murphy, Schar, Willock, Burn and Dubravka are very low performances indeed.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 19:17 by Maggies