Eddie Howe

[Maineblue]

42 minutes ago, Abacus said:

In some ways, you can understand the over reaction. It's a game we shouldn't have lost, and people get pissed off and need someone or something to blame when they're angry. It's genuine at the time but temporary.

 

The subs have been criticised, but you can understand them in the moment due to players tiring etc. Nor was it some tactical masterclass by Klopp - it was a classic flukey suckerpunch by an individual error and an unlucky deflection.

 

We dominated that game and with better finishing / luck would have steamrollered them. We did seem to step back a bit, but I doubt that was down to Howe - more the players thinking it was won. You can tell that because of Klopp's reaction in calling it a miracle and something that he's not seen in 1000 games, or whatever.

 

Likewise, Pep was absolutely delighted with that 1-0 at the Etihad - we didn't start well but by the end they were hanging on a bit and he knew it.

 

To say Howe was outthought comprehensively is hindsight based on the result in my opinion. We've played two of the best teams on the league, should have won one and taken a point from the other.

 

That we didn't was fine margins and if you look at the quality of the 3 squads, we're still punching well above our weight with both performances.

 

It's a few tweaks that are needed, not anything drastic - and Howe will be poring over both of those games looking for what they should be. Best since Keegan, and he might become better.

Good post except for one thing “City weren’t hanging on in the end and Pep wasn’t worried”  you guys had one tame effort shot on target in the whole game, you’re a bloody good side but you didn’t turn up at the Etihad.

[Theregulars]

On 28/08/2023 at 01:33, Vinny Green Balls said:

The context that a number of people and myself have pointed out about the relative strengths of the squads. It is pretty much the most important context needed. Fine having a peaceful argument but you are just being willfully obtuse here by ignoring that massive elephant in the room, and it's making your argument that much flimsier.

I categorically disagree that it's the most important context needed. The most important contexts, for my money, are the context of how the team plays and the significant investment in the playing squad. Despite you phrasing it as fact, it's an opinion, and we differ. 

 

When you watch us regularly and in detail, you see a team with no fear who outrun, outmuscle, outduel etc others. My question is, therefore, why does that disappear (in whole or in part) in some high-pressure matches / matches against the better sides? Clearly, against squads which are more expensive than ours and longer in the tooth as established teams than ours, we can perform this way (Manchester United at home, Spurs home and away, Manchester City home last year) - so what I don't understand is twhy, in certain matches, that identity / culture / ethos etc goes missing. In my opinion, it went missing in the last two matches under instruction from the manager to some extent (we were so reserved and timid in both games). It went missing in the cup final because, in my view, the occasion was too big for the manage and squad. 

 

So, politely, calling people "willfully obtuse" and context-ignorant because they disagree with you is cheap and lazy in my view. I don't think Eddie Howe is faultless. I think he has done an excellent job but, when he does something or presides over or has some degree of responsibility for a situation in which the outcome is so obviously undesirable, is it not fair to ask a question or make a criticism? You come across as quite didactic: "if you don't agree with me then you're ignorant", essentially. 

[Theregulars]

On 28/08/2023 at 01:02, NEEJ said:

I'll counter what criticism I've sent his way by saying his dismantling of Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs, and Brighton at home are up there with the finest displays I've ever seen from a Newcastle side (albeit all at home). Therefore I more or less disagree with @Theregulars

I agree, those were all tremendous performances. But there have been just as many nervy, unconvincing our outright poor displayers in similar high-pressure matches or matches against better sides: cup final, Brighton away, Leeds away, Leicester home, Manchester City away this and last season, Liverpool home this and last season. Maybe that's just football, but in my view there's enough in there to question whether the manager is yet at a point where he is comfortable and reliable in these situations. I don't think he is, and that's a legitimate view based on the evidence in my opinion. I fully hope he can get there and I'll give him a very long time to do it. 

 

I would say - not in response to @NEEJ - that it does feel sometimes on this forum that divergence of opinion isn't allowed or tolerated. It feels somehow like I have blasphemed by criticising him. I love him and the team; I can still criticise them. I love my girlfriend and dog; I still criticise them when they're twats or do stupid shit. 

 

[Theregulars]

On 28/08/2023 at 08:57, Wallsendmag said:

 

 

Tbf as NUFC manager (we were relegation fodder up until last season lets not forget) for the time being at least he's always going to have a "mixed" record against the top sides. In fact most of the other top managers have a mixed record against the other top teams.

 

However he's still managed to beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, Brighton, West Ham in his relatively short time here, all likely to be top 8 this season. Add to those an impressive draw v Man City last season and his record isn't actually too bad. For whatever reason Klopp just has his number.

No, it's not bad, but to my mind there have now been enough poor / timid performances in matches of that nature that I think it's fair to ask the question. That is genuinely all.

[KaKa]

16 hours ago, relámpago blanco said:

Ridiculous some of the nonsense in here. We would have been relegated without him and the squad last season had no business qualifying for the CL.

 

Sickening how quickly this has been dismissed.

 

Some fans genuinely deserved Mike Ashley.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think there could well be an element of mentality or culture that needs to improve, and I believe it will. It's natural since we aren't historically a top team. 

 

That said, it's all very well saying we should press and go all-out against Man City, when doing that could actually be worse for your chances. 

 

Against Liverpool though, I would've liked to have seen a Spurs-style blitzkrieg. We weren't far off it initially TBF, we just had a lot of possession after the red card and struggled when they sat deep.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think there could well be an element of mentality or culture that needs to improve, and I believe it will. It's natural since we aren't historically a top team. 

 

That said, it's all very well saying we should press and go all-out against Man City, when doing that could actually be worse for your chances. 

 

Against Liverpool though, I would've liked to have seen a Spurs-style blitzkrieg. We weren't far off it initially TBF, we just had a lot of possession after the red card and struggled when they sat deep.

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of fans are completely delusional, thinking we should just all out press Man City and Liverpool like we did Spurs last year. It's an embarrassing take.

 

Their forward lines would annihilate us completely with their pace and ability on the ball. Especially as we don't have a ton of speed in our back line.

 

Howe is clearly trying to come up with a plan to combat these types of teams, and I wish people would just let him do so, because he is infinitely more capable than these dummies.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Yeah, I don’t disagree. 

[Kid Icarus]

It again comes back to player quality. The best players aren't just the best, they're experienced in high pressure situations. It's what made Liverpool a huge threat last season when we were chasing top 4 - despite them being shit they'd been there and done that and were battle hardened. They then went on a huge winning run than could have been enough to pip us to the top 4 had Howe and the team slipped up under that pressure.

 

And on top of that we were also undoubtedly better than Man United last season imo and we were better in the cup final, but experience counts.

 

Look at this comparison before the final. This is just the players, it's not hard to see which team has the advantage mentally in this situation, regardless of who might be better when there's less pressure on.

 

Spoiler

Newcastle United

Copa del Rey wins x 1

Copa do Brasil, Copa Sudamericana, Coupe de la Ligue and Olympics wins x1 (all Bruno)

MLS Cup wins x 1

Champion League runner up x2

Euro final runner up x 1

 

Man United

Champions League wins x9 (Varane and Casemiro basically)

Europa League wins x4

World Cup wins x2

Copa America wins x2

FA Cup wins x2

League Cup wins x2

Copa Del Rey x4

Super cup wins x7

Club World Cup wins x7

Sopacopa del Espana wins x6

Community Shield wins x5

KNVP Cup wins x1

Cruyff Shield wins x1

Cup of Champion wins x1

Copa Sudamericana wins x1

Taca del Portugal wins x1

Tara del Liga wins x1

DFB Pokal wins x1

DFB Supercup wins x1

World Cup runner up x1

Euros Final runner up x3

Europa League runner up x6

Copa America runner up x1

 

If Howe ever has a team with the experience that teams like Man United's had (on top of the quality we already have) and is still not cutting it against the teams that do have that experience, that's when a think a point can be reasonably made about his quality as a manager.

 

Until then I don't think there's a point to be made at all, not only are we punching above our weight, we're doing it with players who don't yet have the experience of what it takes mentally to get the job done. For a lot of teams that's a huge hurdle to get over on their way to success. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[KaKa]

23 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

No, it's not bad, but to my mind there have now been enough poor / timid performances in matches of that nature that I think it's fair to ask the question. That is genuinely all.

 

How long have Pep and Klopp been in their jobs? And how long have they been building those teams and working with those players? Players and squads that are still significantly better than ours by the way.

 

Honestly, you really need to calm down. You like so many others cannot handle the success we had last season and it has completely made you lot loopy.

 

 

[gbandit]

While I agree with anyone calling out people who are being critical of Howe generally, I think in-game specifics are obviously fine to highlight. I think Howe himself would set us up differently against ten men if we were to replay the game as we did get complacent. Is Howe an amazing manager, yes, has he improved every player in the squad, yes. Will we win something with him if he’s here in two years, yes.

 

Kaka, I think you have too much of a tendency to generalise, “you lot” doesn’t really capture the fact that most of us on here have the same opinion that he’s amazing 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, gbandit said:

While I agree with anyone calling out people who are being critical of Howe generally, I think in-game specifics are obviously fine to highlight. I think Howe himself would set us up differently against ten men if we were to replay the game as we did get complacent. Is Howe an amazing manager, yes, has he improved every player in the squad, yes. Will we win something with him if he’s here in two years, yes.

 

Kaka, I think you have too much of a tendency to generalise, “you lot” doesn’t really capture the fact that most of us on here have the same opinion that he’s amazing 

 

To be honest I don't even care if people don't think he's amazing, but just be realistic with whatever you are saying to back it up. We are miles behind those teams in every way and are still playing catch-up.

 

I think there is an entitlement that has come with last year's success that is incredibly disappointing and it is really annoying.

 

Every one was so hype after we smashed Villa 5-1 just a few weeks ago and a couple of losses to Pep and Klopp, and now all this carrying on. It's ridiculous, honestly.

[The Prophet]

Depends on how you categories high-pressure matches or matches against top sides too. 

 

Man United, Spurs and Brighton at home were all high pressure matches against sides who were in the running for Champions League football. We played very, very well in all three. There were also plenty of solid performances under the cosh in the prior fight for survival. Of course the highest pressure match of all was the cup final, where it is fair to say we weren't at our best. In context it did fall during an unfortunate run of form where the team looked a bit short of confidence, particularly in front of goal.

 

We've been a mixed bag v other good sides. We've beaten Arsenal, Man United, Spurs (X2), Brighton (X2) and Villa. We've also held our own and come away with something at Old Trafford, the Emirates and the Amex. It's hardly disastrous.

 

The two teams we've really struggled against have been Liverpool and City. In isolation, we haven't performed particularly badly over the last three v Liverpool and have suffered late heartbreak in two. Listening to journalists and players it does sound like they've got under our skin, it's a mental barrier we'll have to tackle. City are just sensational and most teams struggle to consistently take points off them.

 

We've come a long way in such a short period of time, we're not going to be taking down the best in the league on a consistent basis. They are after all very good teams, with top managers and deep squads. It is remarkable the trip to the Etihad is the only game in the calender I write off these days, when 18 months ago I'd be crossing out half of the fixture list. As we add more quality and continue to develop, we'll take even more points from these games, but other than the cup final I've not seen much evidence of a mental block in high pressure games.

[Miercoles]

This sad bastard doesn't win every game? What the fuck?

 

No room in my heart for the criticism of Howe at this point. Yes the game as absolutely heartbreaking, ruined my whole week, but that's football man. Playing against 10 men isn't as easy as people think, and our squad is still a work in progress.

 

If you're getting any shit from the scousers in your life, just ask them who they drew in the Champions League this season.

[PauloGeordio]

2 minutes ago, Miercoles said:

This sad bastard doesn't win every game? What the fuck?

 

No room in my heart for the criticism of Howe at this point. Yes the game as absolutely heartbreaking, ruined my whole week, but that's football man. Playing against 10 men isn't as easy as people think, and our squad is still a work in progress.

 

If you're getting any shit from the scousers in your life, just ask them who they drew in the Champions League this season.

??

[Fezzle]

2 minutes ago, Miercoles said:

This sad bastard doesn't win every game? What the fuck?

 

No room in my heart for the criticism of Howe at this point. Yes the game as absolutely heartbreaking, ruined my whole week, but that's football man. Playing against 10 men isn't as easy as people think, and our squad is still a work in progress.

 

If you're getting any shit from the scousers in your life, just ask them who they drew in the Champions League this season.

Watched in a bar full of scousers in tenerife and to say I was gutted for a good day or so after is underselling it. Find a few comments, admittedly on Facebook more than here very annoying. Some fans have skipped the actual winning to immediately too privelaged to lose. I will get my own back on the scousers watching the draw while they work though haha 

[Displayname]

Eddie Howe is my favorite thing going at Newcastle atm, but people should be able to point out what they see as flaws in his decision making or abilities. He is not perfect and above critisicm.

 

People saying he should get sacked are idiots ofcourse, but cant recall many here calling for that?

[80]

5 hours ago, jack j said:

Be canny In 20 years when history is rewrote and people realise how good Eddie was before he was forced out by our stupid fans

They'll all deny it though. The same as they do now with Robson

I'll go with Mourinho as this eras souness

Our fans deserve fuck all success ?

Makes me shudder because it doesn't sound impossible.

[Kid Icarus]

Shades of the same conflated point that we saw all the time when Rafa was here - that people criticising an argument is somehow the same as them saying you're not allowed to make the argument at all. It's all a bit 'Im entitled to my opinion' really. 

 

If people were saying 'you shouldn't post this' fair enough, but if they're saying 'what you've posted is shit and here's why' that's totally different. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[80]

1 hour ago, Maineblue said:

Good post except for one thing “City weren’t hanging on in the end and Pep wasn’t worried”  you guys had one tame effort shot on target in the whole game, you’re a bloody good side but you didn’t turn up at the Etihad.

This is the guy everyone was hammering and calling a troll because he said there was pressure on Howe to get a result against Liverpool, isn't it? Made ourselves look like dicks here, haven't we?

 

P.S. I don't really agree with you here. We had about as much of the game as Liverpool did against us - we just didn't put away our chances while they did. Your celebrations at the end of the game told their own story, it wasn't a comfortable night.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by 80

[Theregulars]

41 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

How long have Pep and Klopp been in their jobs? And how long have they been building those teams and working with those players? Players and squads that are still significantly better than ours by the way.

 

Honestly, you really need to calm down. You like so many others cannot handle the success we had last season and it has completely made you lot loopy.

 

 

 

I am calm and have been reasoned and polite in the whole debate. In my opinion the hubris and lack of self-awareness on your behalf in continually telling people what they think and how they feel is genuinely staggering. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Theregulars

[gbandit]

What’s gan on here? Hope some people take a breather at times this season and don’t see everything as absolutes 

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, Theregulars said:

 

I am calm and have been reasoned and polite in the whole debate. In my opinion the hubris and lack of self-awareness on your behalf in continually telling people what they think and how they feel is genuinely staggering. 

 

 

 

 

Okay, fine. 

 

Your reactions and expectations are all perfectly fine and reasonable. Carry on.

[Groundhog63]

34 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

To be honest I don't even care if people don't think he's amazing, but just be realistic with whatever you are saying to back it up. We are miles behind those teams in every way and are still playing catch-up.

 

I think there is an entitlement that has come with last year's success that is incredibly disappointing and it is really annoying.

 

Every one was so hype after we smashed Villa 5-1 just a few weeks ago and a couple of losses to Pep and Klopp, and now all this carrying on. It's ridiculous, honestly.

This. Fan base full of gonads, tbh

[Miercoles]

We're gonna rip Brighton a new asshole too, so all you fuckers better save your seats on the bandwagon.