The Prophet Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Barnes23 said: That's a fair point, although I think how we're setting up may be part of the problem at this point tbh. The lopsided full backs, similar patterns of play with Almiron/Trippier and attempting to work opportunities from that side of the pitch rather than finding other avenues of attack (especially through the middle) is producing diminishing returns and has been for some time. I don't think we need to dismantle the system that has got us to where we were, it just needs a couple of tweaks to make us less predictable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, gbandit said: One thing I’ve learnt this year more than ever is that height makes you good in the air defensively but means fuck all going forwards unless you’ve learnt to attack the ball properly Patrice Evra was great in the air. He attacked it so well. A lot of it is mindset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Barnes23 said: Would actually consider giving Manquillo a game in one of the upcoming fixtures. Would offer something different in attack and was one of our better players in the FA cup fixture (not saying a whole lot, I know). Most importantly though, maybe the rest would rejuvenate Trippier. The gulf in class between them two would be huge imho. I've been frustrated with set pieces for ages but Trippiers overall game is generally really good and I'm not sure what, other than maybe freshness, Manquillo would bring that would improve us tbh. Given, we effectively write-off the left hand side to accomodate Trippiers attacking tendencies too, I can't help but think replacing him with a less attacking full back might render us even more toothless going forwards tbh. It's a tough one, because in many respects, we've built this system around Trippier so he's intregal and it's kind of designed to entirely suit his game but we almost don't do him any favours by not having an equally attacking full back on the left. Though, to make that work, we'd need a geet big fuck off athletic CDM I think. Ideally, we'll buy a wonderful CDM this summer, add an attacking left back who can cross a ball from a set piece and that might take some of the load off Trippier, who's been superb broadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Not sure if it's his crossing that has been worse or we just don't have anyone who can head it properly. Either way it's been very tough to watch for a while. Obviously teams are wary of the little ball through to Miggy now as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 The system we play puts enormous pressure on Trippier to produce; Trippier goes forward and Burn shuffles into a sort of back 3 which means that our LW gets next to no support. If you look at our passing structure and emphasis on the flanks since Trippier signed it all goes through our right and through him. It worked brilliantly in the first half of the season but it's probably just been sussed by now as sides only have to shut down our right which since Boxing Day has been largely ineffective anyway given Almiron's predictability. Our system doesn't need to change completely but it needs a couple tweaks to get a bit of unpredictability back; Targett back in asap to gives us another outlet down the opposite flank, Isak to start games consistently and perhaps Gordon ahead of Almiron or ASM, but Almiron for me. Also need a different set piece taker to change it up a bit, teams only have to prepare for Trippier set pieces as no one else takes them on either side, Targett should help with that to a degree. Also, assuming that Joelinton doesn't get booked on Saturday, no other suspensions and no further injuries are picked up, Wolves (h) should be the first time in the entire season where we'll have a full squad to pick from. Which is canny mad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: The system we play puts enormous pressure on Trippier to produce; Trippier goes forward and Burn shuffles into a sort of back 3 which means that our LW gets next to no support. If you look at our passing structure and emphasis on the flanks since Trippier signed it all goes through our right and through him. It worked brilliantly in the first half of the season but it's probably just been sussed by now as sides only have to shut down our right which since Boxing Day has been largely ineffective anyway given Almiron's predictability. Our system doesn't need to change completely but it needs a couple tweaks to get a bit of unpredictability back; Targett back in asap to gives us another outlet down the opposite flank, Isak to start games consistently and perhaps Gordon ahead of Almiron or ASM, but Almiron for me. Also need a different set piece taker to change it up a bit, teams only have to prepare for Trippier set pieces as no one else takes them on either side, Targett should help with that to a degree. Also, assuming that Joelinton doesn't get booked on Saturday, no other suspensions and no further injuries are picked up, Wolves (h) should be the first time in the entire season where we'll have a full squad to pick from. Which is canny mad. Aye. It worked well enough before the World Cup, on the ball we'd essentially settle into a 3-5-2 with Willock and Joelinton switching to provide the width on the left hand side, while Almiron pushed up closer to Wilson. It worked when teams came at us or had an unorganised defensive set up, but it became too easy to shut out. The logical alternative feels like it should be pushing ASM up top as one of the two, but then you need to work out how to keep the width. Him and Isak could be dynamite going forwards though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Aye. It worked well enough before the World Cup, on the ball we'd essentially settle into a 3-5-2 with Willock and Joelinton switching to provide the width on the left hand side, while Almiron pushed up closer to Wilson. It worked when teams came at us or had an unorganised defensive set up, but it became too easy to shut out. The logical alternative feels like it should be pushing ASM up top as one of the two, but then you need to work out how to keep the width. Him and Isak could be dynamite going forwards though. Isak with 1 or a couple attacking partners close to him I feel would give us a bit more against sides that sit deep; we saw glimpses of it against Fulham (h) when he came on and played with Wilson against a team who retreated a further 5-10 yards after their pen miss, we had a bit more impetus carrying the ball towards good positions around the box yesterday and I thought Isak and Maxi have linked up well against Liverpool and at Southampton in the cup. He just needs to be in the team from the start. So does ASM imo, Almiron's poor form has coincided with our poor form in front of goal. Something needs to be tweaked. ASM also I think will be useful at Man City on Saturday, he is at his best running at players on the break at the end of the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 The problem doesn’t lie with Trips Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Would like to see those over time though, I can't believe it hasn't got a lot worse recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Apparently we've scored 2 goals from our last 100 corners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 I’ve always subscribed to the idea that short corners are better, just my opinion of course but that stat is minging Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 https://sqaf.club/goals-from-corners-stats/ lots of context of course, but corners are generally not a reliable goal scoring chance, I would rather work a short corner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) Think it's quite well known with stats nerds that corners aren't very dangerous in general. They are a free chance to cross, but that's about it. I never really get excited about them, especially with the poor aerial players we have. Edited February 27, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 I imagine you could improve on that conversion percentage fairly significantly by signing players who can actually head the ball. Or even coaching players who can't head the ball, to head the ball. We seem to do neither but continue to hoy the ball into the box regularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Remember reading a football stats book, maybe 10 years ago, where they had stats showing that you so seldom score from corners by crossing the ball in to the box, so it’s better to play it short to keep possession in the opposing half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 It's bit like direct free kick shots. On raw stats you would stop shooting, but in a game where a shot is hard to manufacture it might still be preferable to shoot from the free kick. Suppose corners could be similar, even if it's 3% chance to score, you could argue that it's a free 3% so it's worth taking it. Just don't get too excited about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Well that's all kind of a nonsense because a short corner or a short free kick is much easier to defend if you know the other team isn't going to plant it in the box or try and shoot. You have to make the opposition defend against all possibilities and part of that is changing up what you do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Yeah 'course, other things to factor in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Cannot stand Trippiers delay when we have four in there box and just plays it back. It makes no sense at all. Plus his long ball to Crouch (burn) is not baring fruits. Needs to sort it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butcher Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 What I'd give for him to be just a few years younger. He'd be an asset for any club in the World. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 13 hours ago, The Butcher said: What I'd give for him to be just a few years younger. He'd be an asset for any club in the World. That's why we have him though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I think Targett coming back in will be huge for us in terms of set pieces. It'll split the corner-taking duties and should naturally lead to greater variation in our routines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, NEEJ said: I think Targett coming back in will be huge for us in terms of set pieces. It'll split the corner-taking duties and should naturally lead to greater variation in our routines. Will even increase our tactical stability and flexibility on set pieces, with Tripper waiting on the far side to defend or re-distribute rather than sprinting back across the pitch into position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Don’t know what the actual stats say but he’s hitting first man on corners and rarely finding players on set pieces. He’s being complacent as fuck with his short passing and it’s costing us. Desperate for him to have a rest to recharge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 We relied massively on him at the start of the season. It’s no surprise that our form has gone to shit now his has Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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