Sven Botman: targeting January return (Howe)

[Nine]

16 minutes ago, HTT II said:

That’s my fear if we do get success, the fanbase will change, which despite the myths, don’t demand success or CL footy and are actually very pessimistic. I do think, however, given our location and being a one City club, we will remain level headed hopefully as we won’t attract the day trippers and glory hunters of your LFC’s and Man Utd’s. Even following any success. 

Nah, it’s a natural human reaction for a lot of people to get emotional and ahead of ourselves and expect more than is probably realistic. I’ve seen enough of our fans calling for 4th or 6th now mostly down to the exceptional run we went on since late Jan.. it’s going to happen but it’s okay because at any other club it would be the same. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Nine

[Pokerprince2004]

Hey @Milanista what are your thoughts on Lucas Paqueta? We have been strongly linked with him but had a disappointing spell at AC Milan after a big move from Brazil. Would like to hear what Milan fans think of him

[Guest HTT II]

1 minute ago, Nine said:

Nah, it’s a natural human reaction emotion wise to get ahead of ourselves and expect more than is probably realistic. I’ve seen enough of our fans calling for 4th or 6th now mostly down to the exceptional run we went on since late Jan.. it’s going to happen but it’s okay because at any other club it would be the same. 

Most fans I know, a small sample, would be happy just to stay up 

 

Thats the damage Ashley has done no doubt!

[madras]

Just now, HTT II said:

Most fans I know, a small sample, would be happy just to stay up 

 

Thats the damage Ashley has done no doubt!

Most I know are aiming  for a European challenge. Given our start and we finished 7 points off a Europa spot that's not a bad aim. Remember it's an aim, not an expectation.

[Milanista]

1 minute ago, HTT II said:

We are or can be insular like a lot of fans in that as far as footy is concerned, it’s NUFC and NUFC only and some fans take offence when a player doesn’t sign for us because for us, playing for NUFC is/would be the be all and end all. I like to think, however, over the Ashley years, we’ve grown some kind of consciousness and know our place and right now are fully behind everyone at the club and are just all ecstatic that we have some hope now. I mean to be competing with your own club for a player, that was the stuff of dreams under Ashley. I just hope we don’t get spoiled or spoil ourselves…

 

 

 

All fans are like that--Milan fans are no different. Hell, look at Real Madrid, and their tears over Mbappe--side note: I find their tears over a player choosing money to be hilarious coming from them, when that's the literal identity of their club.

 

Anyways, I will be honest, the warm welcome that I have received here is unmatched by any fanbase I have ever interacted with. You all have been super kind, and especially over a player that both of our teams want. There have not been snide remarks or any mean banter, and I will be honest, I worry whether Milan fans would be as gracious to a sanctimonious know-it-all as you all have been to me (a sanctimonious know-it-all).

 

Ashley endeavored to kill the spirit of Newcastle fans, he was a terrible owner, and his tenure was beneath the stature of a club like Newcastle. The fact that your fanbase survived that is a testament to the sincerity of your fans. With money, now you'll just have to deal with American tourists who will not know basic facts about Newcastle, but pretend to be fans. If you get an American player? Oof. If he's good? God help you. Lol.

 

I truly wish you all the most success, I just hope we don't meet in the CL final, as I am seldom-if-ever gracious in defeat. I guess we'll just have to alternate winning it.

[The Prophet]

I hope we cut and run here. This transfer saga appears to have upset a lot of social media fans who are "bored" and have "had enough" of the saga. I hope the club are prioritising this over improving the first team.

[NE27]

3 minutes ago, Milanista said:

With money, now you'll just have to deal with American tourists who will not know basic facts about Newcastle, but pretend to be fans. If you get an American player? Oof. If he's good? God help you. Lol.

 

All American nufc fans on the forum....

 

[Milanista]

5 minutes ago, Pokerprince2004 said:

Hey @Milanista what are your thoughts on Lucas Paqueta? We have been strongly linked with him but had a disappointing spell at AC Milan after a big move from Brazil. Would like to hear what Milan fans think of him

I have a lot of thoughts on Paqueta. Full disclosure, most Milan fans are hoping that you overpay for him, because we have a 15-20% sell-on clause.

 

Paqueta, when he first came to Milan, was a revelation. People compared him to Kaka--he's not like him in the slightest, it was lazy, he was just Brazilian and played as an attacking midfielder. Italy is obsessed with tactics, we talk about it a lot more than I think English or Spanish fans do. The tactical expectations on players is overwhelming, it can choke players. Paqueta unfortunately came during the early period of our new owners, when they were entrusting Leonardo (of PSG "fame") as our sporting director. We changed formations (and coaches), and Paqueta was moved from a winger (who was really a CM who pushed up) to a mezzala, who is usually a LCM or RCM, but who might attack a little more than defend, but still defend, think Seedorf-style.

 

Paqueta came when Gattuso was our coach, and while contrary to his reputation as a player, his football was initially suicidally attacking. He then became very pragmatic after entertaining (for neutrals) but brutal losses--Leonardo gave him very poor pieces--and using Paqueta and Piatek (another failure) Gattuso missed out on the CL by one point. Gattuso said that his team needed veterans, the management disagreed, Leonardo was let go, Gattuso left (sacrificing all his pay as a manager, but ensuring his staff were paid), and Maldini was now in charge. Maldini made his biggest mistake by hiring Marco Giampaolo, the worst manager I've ever seen. This man played an archaic 4312 system, but did he play Paqueta as the CAM? No. He played a RW there. He played Fabio Borini as our RCM. In short, he was a moron. He talked shit to Antonio Conte, who said he wanted his teams to put their heads down and run, Giampaolo said: "I want my teams to keep their heads up and play." Quite the bold statement. You would imagine that with Paqueta in your squad, a stylish Brazilian midfielder, that you would play him as your CAM?

 

Wrong. He was played as a LCM, and then Giampaolo said that Paqueta should be "less Brazilian." Which the boy (rightfully) took as an insult over his nationality. Giampaolo was fired only 7 games into the season and Pioli was appointed. Paqueta would have fit perfectly into our 4231, but I think by that point, the damage was done and Paqueta's spirit was broken and the expectations from a year earlier, comparing him to Kaka, had nosedived. Maldini sought to take care of Paqueta and let him go to Lyon, where he has shown the quality that led us to pay 38-40m for him.

 

Paqueta is not a CM in a 433. Can he do it? Sure. He can. But his passing range isn't precise enough, at least not in Italy. I think that with the pace of the EPL, he would not have a problem, pace isn't his problem, but I don't think he does well as a true CM in a 433. He is a fancy player, but sometimes I get the sense that he's a tad clumsy. He works hard, though. He runs, and he doesn't give up, but he seems like the sort of player that uses his energy and athleticism to overcome his inconsistent first touch. Don't get me wrong, he can do some truly skillful things, but I feel it is his shooting, tricks, and guile that he is best at, being a CM who passes and is expected to link play, it isn't what I would use him for.

 

He's a smart player, and there's a reason he plays for Brazil, but I think the only reason you should buy him is if you plan to play with a CAM, that's where he is best. If you play a 4231, that would be where he would thrive. Because he can tuck in, when out-of-possession to provide defensive help for your two CMs, he isn't lazy, and his workrate is top, I just think he thrives not having to play as a true CM in the 433, but if you give him a little more freedom from having to link-up play as a true CM, he can delight you when he's on song, and if he has a bad game, he will put in a shift to fight for your team. Can he play as a CM? Yes. He has done that for Lyon, but, that's with a much weaker Ligue 1. Ligue 1 is a fast and physical league, so getting players from Ligue 1 to the EPL, they aren't going to be shocked by the speed or bite of the EPL. Paqueta isn't going to, either. If you play him as a CM, it can work, but I personally think, to get the best out of him, you let him sit in front of two CMs behind him, like he does for Brazil and (mostly) for Lyon.

 

Paqueta should have been a great fit for our 4231, and there is remorse over him not being at Milan, I can't remember a Milan fan delighting in him not being in the squad. If anything, there was confusion as to why he wasn't given more of a chance when Pioli came in and started playing players in their natural positions. That's why I went into detail about the background, because I think there was just tough things going on, and unlike previous Milan eras, there were no Brazilians at Milan to help him when he came to Milan. Bruno being at Newcastle should be a huge help, because he's not just Brazilian, but he's a teammate from Lyon.

 

Sorry this was so long.

[Ikon]

I need to get unlimited data. Cheers for that Milanista ?

[MrRaspberryJam]

5 minutes ago, Milanista said:

I have a lot of thoughts on Paqueta. Full disclosure, most Milan fans are hoping that you overpay for him, because we have a 15-20% sell-on clause.

 

Paqueta, when he first came to Milan, was a revelation. People compared him to Kaka--he's not like him in the slightest, it was lazy, he was just Brazilian and played as an attacking midfielder. Italy is obsessed with tactics, we talk about it a lot more than I think English or Spanish fans do. The tactical expectations on players is overwhelming, it can choke players. Paqueta unfortunately came during the early period of our new owners, when they were entrusting Leonardo (of PSG "fame") as our sporting director. We changed formations (and coaches), and Paqueta was moved from a winger (who was really a CM who pushed up) to a mezzala, who is usually a LCM or RCM, but who might attack a little more than defend, but still defend, think Seedorf-style.

 

Paqueta came when Gattuso was our coach, and while contrary to his reputation as a player, his football was initially suicidally attacking. He then became very pragmatic after entertaining (for neutrals) but brutal losses--Leonardo gave him very poor pieces--and using Paqueta and Piatek (another failure) Gattuso missed out on the CL by one point. Gattuso said that his team needed veterans, the management disagreed, Leonardo was let go, Gattuso left (sacrificing all his pay as a manager, but ensuring his staff were paid), and Maldini was now in charge. Maldini made his biggest mistake by hiring Marco Giampaolo, the worst manager I've ever seen. This man played an archaic 4312 system, but did he play Paqueta as the CAM? No. He played a RW there. He played Fabio Borini as our RCM. In short, he was a moron. He talked shit to Antonio Conte, who said he wanted his teams to put their heads down and run, Giampaolo said: "I want my teams to keep their heads up and play." Quite the bold statement. You would imagine that with Paqueta in your squad, a stylish Brazilian midfielder, that you would play him as your CAM?

 

Wrong. He was played as a LCM, and then Giampaolo said that Paqueta should be "less Brazilian." Which the boy (rightfully) took as an insult over his nationality. Giampaolo was fired only 7 games into the season and Pioli was appointed. Paqueta would have fit perfectly into our 4231, but I think by that point, the damage was done and Paqueta's spirit was broken and the expectations from a year earlier, comparing him to Kaka, had nosedived. Maldini sought to take care of Paqueta and let him go to Lyon, where he has shown the quality that led us to pay 38-40m for him.

 

Paqueta is not a CM in a 433. Can he do it? Sure. He can. But his passing range isn't precise enough, at least not in Italy. I think that with the pace of the EPL, he would not have a problem, pace isn't his problem, but I don't think he does well as a true CM in a 433. He is a fancy player, but sometimes I get the sense that he's a tad clumsy. He works hard, though. He runs, and he doesn't give up, but he seems like the sort of player that uses his energy and athleticism to overcome his inconsistent first touch. Don't get me wrong, he can do some truly skillful things, but I feel it is his shooting, tricks, and guile that he is best at, being a CM who passes and is expected to link play, it isn't what I would use him for.

 

He's a smart player, and there's a reason he plays for Brazil, but I think the only reason you should buy him is if you plan to play with a CAM, that's where he is best. If you play a 4231, that would be where he would thrive. Because he can tuck in, when out-of-possession to provide defensive help for your two CMs, he isn't lazy, and his workrate is top, I just think he thrives not having to play as a true CM in the 433, but if you give him a little more freedom from having to link-up play as a true CM, he can delight you when he's on song, and if he has a bad game, he will put in a shift to fight for your team. Can he play as a CM? Yes. He has done that for Lyon, but, that's with a much weaker Ligue 1. Ligue 1 is a fast and physical league, so getting players from Ligue 1 to the EPL, they aren't going to be shocked by the speed or bite of the EPL. Paqueta isn't going to, either. If you play him as a CM, it can work, but I personally think, to get the best out of him, you let him sit in front of two CMs behind him, like he does for Brazil and (mostly) for Lyon.

 

Paqueta should have been a great fit for our 4231, and there is remorse over him not being at Milan, I can't remember a Milan fan delighting in him not being in the squad. If anything, there was confusion as to why he wasn't given more of a chance when Pioli came in and started playing players in their natural positions. That's why I went into detail about the background, because I think there was just tough things going on, and unlike previous Milan eras, there were no Brazilians at Milan to help him when he came to Milan. Bruno being at Newcastle should be a huge help, because he's not just Brazilian, but he's a teammate from Lyon.

 

Sorry this was so long.

 

@rickyprickles this guy does the best Ali G impressions!

 

@Milanistado it!..

[Gazzaschicken]

40 minutes ago, Nine said:

Nah, it’s a natural human reaction for a lot of people to get emotional and ahead of ourselves and expect more than is probably realistic. I’ve seen enough of our fans calling for 4th or 6th now mostly down to the exceptional run we went on since late Jan.. it’s going to happen but it’s okay because at any other club it would be the same. 

 

 

 

Age of supporters will have a lot to do with it some of the younger fan base who never lived the 90s and early 00s will be impatient because its been a shit life for them 

[Teslact]

Can we just get this over the line? I'm impatiently waiting for the Sven's Dirty Mags songs (or RTG posts).

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Ashworth being there suggests to me it's very close, like.

[BeloEmre]

Just now, WarrenBartonCentrePartin said:

Ashworth being there suggests to me it's very close, like.

Someone saying his son plays for Wales U21? So could have been there for that reason…

[HaydnNUFC]

My GOAT.

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Some class posts from our man in Milan.

[The Prophet]

Just now, WarrenBartonCentrePartin said:

Ashworth being there suggests to me it's very close, like.

 

His son was on the bench for Wales too mind. 

[gbandit]

To be honest, I’ve laid into Adam Pearson a few times but that is some content I can get behind 

[Gazzaschicken]

3 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

His son was on the bench for Wales too mind. 

Getting his family to scout up close I like the way this man operates 

[Pokerprince2004]

17 minutes ago, Milanista said:

I have a lot of thoughts on Paqueta. Full disclosure, most Milan fans are hoping that you overpay for him, because we have a 15-20% sell-on clause.

 

Paqueta, when he first came to Milan, was a revelation. People compared him to Kaka--he's not like him in the slightest, it was lazy, he was just Brazilian and played as an attacking midfielder. Italy is obsessed with tactics, we talk about it a lot more than I think English or Spanish fans do. The tactical expectations on players is overwhelming, it can choke players. Paqueta unfortunately came during the early period of our new owners, when they were entrusting Leonardo (of PSG "fame") as our sporting director. We changed formations (and coaches), and Paqueta was moved from a winger (who was really a CM who pushed up) to a mezzala, who is usually a LCM or RCM, but who might attack a little more than defend, but still defend, think Seedorf-style.

 

Paqueta came when Gattuso was our coach, and while contrary to his reputation as a player, his football was initially suicidally attacking. He then became very pragmatic after entertaining (for neutrals) but brutal losses--Leonardo gave him very poor pieces--and using Paqueta and Piatek (another failure) Gattuso missed out on the CL by one point. Gattuso said that his team needed veterans, the management disagreed, Leonardo was let go, Gattuso left (sacrificing all his pay as a manager, but ensuring his staff were paid), and Maldini was now in charge. Maldini made his biggest mistake by hiring Marco Giampaolo, the worst manager I've ever seen. This man played an archaic 4312 system, but did he play Paqueta as the CAM? No. He played a RW there. He played Fabio Borini as our RCM. In short, he was a moron. He talked shit to Antonio Conte, who said he wanted his teams to put their heads down and run, Giampaolo said: "I want my teams to keep their heads up and play." Quite the bold statement. You would imagine that with Paqueta in your squad, a stylish Brazilian midfielder, that you would play him as your CAM?

 

Wrong. He was played as a LCM, and then Giampaolo said that Paqueta should be "less Brazilian." Which the boy (rightfully) took as an insult over his nationality. Giampaolo was fired only 7 games into the season and Pioli was appointed. Paqueta would have fit perfectly into our 4231, but I think by that point, the damage was done and Paqueta's spirit was broken and the expectations from a year earlier, comparing him to Kaka, had nosedived. Maldini sought to take care of Paqueta and let him go to Lyon, where he has shown the quality that led us to pay 38-40m for him.

 

Paqueta is not a CM in a 433. Can he do it? Sure. He can. But his passing range isn't precise enough, at least not in Italy. I think that with the pace of the EPL, he would not have a problem, pace isn't his problem, but I don't think he does well as a true CM in a 433. He is a fancy player, but sometimes I get the sense that he's a tad clumsy. He works hard, though. He runs, and he doesn't give up, but he seems like the sort of player that uses his energy and athleticism to overcome his inconsistent first touch. Don't get me wrong, he can do some truly skillful things, but I feel it is his shooting, tricks, and guile that he is best at, being a CM who passes and is expected to link play, it isn't what I would use him for.

 

He's a smart player, and there's a reason he plays for Brazil, but I think the only reason you should buy him is if you plan to play with a CAM, that's where he is best. If you play a 4231, that would be where he would thrive. Because he can tuck in, when out-of-possession to provide defensive help for your two CMs, he isn't lazy, and his workrate is top, I just think he thrives not having to play as a true CM in the 433, but if you give him a little more freedom from having to link-up play as a true CM, he can delight you when he's on song, and if he has a bad game, he will put in a shift to fight for your team. Can he play as a CM? Yes. He has done that for Lyon, but, that's with a much weaker Ligue 1. Ligue 1 is a fast and physical league, so getting players from Ligue 1 to the EPL, they aren't going to be shocked by the speed or bite of the EPL. Paqueta isn't going to, either. If you play him as a CM, it can work, but I personally think, to get the best out of him, you let him sit in front of two CMs behind him, like he does for Brazil and (mostly) for Lyon.

 

Paqueta should have been a great fit for our 4231, and there is remorse over him not being at Milan, I can't remember a Milan fan delighting in him not being in the squad. If anything, there was confusion as to why he wasn't given more of a chance when Pioli came in and started playing players in their natural positions. That's why I went into detail about the background, because I think there was just tough things going on, and unlike previous Milan eras, there were no Brazilians at Milan to help him when he came to Milan. Bruno being at Newcastle should be a huge help, because he's not just Brazilian, but he's a teammate from Lyon.

 

Sorry this was so long.

 

Such a detailed and indepth response I really appreciate that. So he didn't flop as badly as some of our 'experts' in the media think. Really hope we go for him and this analysis just confirms my belief even more.

 

Thanks ?

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Gazzaschicken said:

Getting his family to scout up close I like the way this man operates 

 

For what it's worth, Scott Wilson of the echo reported that it was a Botman related visit.

[Keegans Export]

21 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

For what it's worth, Scott Wilson of the echo reported that it was a Botman related visit.

"Dad, I thought you had come down to see me?"

"Course I did son..."

"But you left at half time"

"Ah, yes...erm...about that..."

[Milanista]

Just now, Pokerprince2004 said:

 

Such a detailed and indepth response I really appreciate that. So he didn't flop as badly as some of our 'experts' in the media think. Really hope we go for him and this analysis just confirms my belief even more.

 

Thanks ?

Oh, if people want to say that he "flopped" at Milan, then they are grossly mistaken. He was a very young player who was brought in to save Milan, with no support system around him.

 

He came in January of 2019, and when he first came in, he was great. Didn't score enough, but he had some nice assists, and everyone was buzzing. Summer of 2019, big changes, and that's when he suffered, coaching changes didn't result in him rediscovering his form, but I think he just had a tough time at Milan, because Covid hit the second part of that season (which is when we had our new coach) and he worked hard, but, they just couldn't iron out where to put him, especially as we had Hakan Calhanoglu, who was playing very well for us in the CAM spot.

 

Edgar Davids, Patrick Vieira, and Kluivert, among others, had come to Milan had failed, before moving on to have strong careers--the idea that because a player had a bad time at some club makes them a "bad buy" is silly to me.

 

Being compared to Kaka did not help, it heaped pressure on the boy, and that's where Ibrahimovic coming in helped, because he took all the spotlight, and our young players didn't have to deal with the crushing expectations of a revival. Milan fans are different to Real Madrid or Barca fans, Milan fans will pick your performances apart. Spanish fans just say you're rubbish and tell you to take a hike, but Milan fans pride themselves on their tactical knowledge, and so the dissections of why you are having a bad game must be annoying, particularly to young players who are much more aware of the opinions due to social media.

 

Bruno being at Newcastle will help Paqueta settle. I just think playing him as a CM in a 433 would be a mistake, akin to Man Utd playing Pogba as a CM. Where Bruno Fernandes plays for Man Utd is where Pogba should have been playing for Man Utd, so Bruno F. was a waste of money, as was playing Pogba out-of-position.

 

Paqueta is like Lampard, not in style, but role. I don't consider Lampard a particularly gifted passer, I think Scholes and Beckham were much better (Beckham impressed many skeptical Milan fans during his tenure with us), but Lampard was great because of what he did in the attacking third. If you play him like that, where there is this fiction that he's a "box-to-box" while having Makelele doing the actual defensive work, then that's how you would best utilize Paqueta.

[Conjo]

1 hour ago, Whitley mag said:

Safe to say he’s no Lascelles.

 

 

 

But he was supposed to be poor with the ball said everybody who thinks he has some irrational dislike to NUFC because he hasn't jumped on the first plane to Newcastle when the season was over.

[McCormick]

No one said he was poor on the ball. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by McCormick