toontownman Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/07/07/very-talented-player-agbonlahor-says-newcastle-could-pull-off-great-signing-from-london/ Guess its a good idea unless Brentford offer 10k less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: And how often do people say "Kante reminds me of David Batty"? He's most frequently compared to another short black midfielder of African heritage. Let's not pretend that how players look and their ethnic background doesn't play a part in who they are compared too and their general description. It applies to non black players too, Winks the next Tom Cleverley for example, or some other generic white English midfielder. Yes there is a tendency to lump black players together more in terms of this player being similar to that player, but I don’t think its a racial thing, but more of a football thing. Subconsciously anyway! As for Kante, he reminds me of no-one, he’s a specialist and one of the best ever in his position and I can’t for the life of me think of any player, black or white, quite like him. Ian Wright is black, I can’t think of another black or white English striker quite like him. I could link many many white forwards in the same kind of mould as one another and likewise many black players, but again I don’t, honestly, think it’s a racial thing or racial bias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: And how often do people say "Kante reminds me of David Batty"? He's most frequently compared to another short black midfielder of African heritage. Let's not pretend that how players look and their ethnic background doesn't play a part in who they are compared too and their general description. The second paragraph is spot on, but it has nothing to with racism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) Ekitike reminded a lot of people of Ibrahimovic, one of the blackest men alive. Edited July 7, 2022 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Mind, a young Jermaine Beckford did once remind me of a young Andy Cole… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, hakka said: Tottenham have signed a 33 year old Perišić. Do people who have concerns over Acensio, how would you feel if we had landed Perišić? Just curious - not a dig. Well, Perisic is Conte’s man. I think it’s different when a manager — a great manager like Conte, signs a player that he trusts. Don’t feel the same about a lazy f*ck like Steve Bruce, though I guess the situation is comparable. I tend to give someone like Conte the benefit of the doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: And how often do people say "Kante reminds me of David Batty"? He's most frequently compared to another short black midfielder of African heritage. Let's not pretend that how players look and their ethnic background doesn't play a part in who they are compared too and their general description. Be interested in a typology of player stereotypes. South Slavic midfielders comes to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, HTT II said: Mind, a young Jermaine Beckford did once remind me of a young Andy Cole… Fucking racist. Honestly, some people are thick as mince. Can't do anything without some moron jumping to the wrong conclusion. "I was watching Peter Crouch highlights the other day and I can't tell you how much he reminded me of Pele in his pomp. Had to scrub my eyes for a second to make sure I was watching the same fella". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: True, but so did Isaac Hayden. So did Dwight Gayle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, Lazarus said: So did Dwight Gayle. Andy Cole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Yes it's not just black players obviously. It's literally a racial or ethnic thing - as you say we can easily think of others for a French winger, non-descript English CM etc. That Atsu comparison was especially lazy. And jarring because it was used with another (semi lazy at the least - and i've made the same comparison based on football ability at the same age) comparison that painted the white English player in a positive light.That's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, gazza ladra said: Be interested in a typology of player stereotypes. South Slavic midfielders comes to mind. It's a perfectly natural thing for a human to see one person and associate it with another person. Its a tribal thing from way back, where we had to make sure that outsiders weren't a threat to our tribe. It doesn't have to be skin colour though it could be any feature that stands out different. Of course its a great excuse for racists also but it doesn't stop anyone from comparing two people of the same skin colour and seeing similarities. If I want to compare Kante with Claude Makelele, I fucking will. I swear people were comparing that young kid Sucic? with Luka Modric but that's fine because they are white. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, STM said: The second paragraph is spot on, but it has nothing to with racism. Who mentioned racism? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Yes it's not just black players obviously. It's literally a racial or ethnic thing - as you say we can easily think of others for a French winger, non-descript English CM etc. That Atsu comparison was especially lazy. And jarring because it was used with another (semi lazy at the least - and i've made the same comparison based on football ability at the same age) comparison that painted the white English player in a positive light.That's all. Can you point out what part of my post painted Gordon in a positive light, compared to CHO. In fact, I'm fairly sure I said the opposite. You are a moron. Stop finding racial issues where they don't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 minute ago, The College Dropout said: Who mentioned racism? You implied it. Don't play word games. You might get into daft arguments with others on this forum but I'm not falling for your shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie_once_removed Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 minute ago, The College Dropout said: Yes it's not just black players obviously. It's literally a racial or ethnic thing - as you say we can easily think of others for a French winger, non-descript English CM etc. That Atsu comparison was especially lazy. And jarring because it was used with another (semi lazy at the least - and i've made the same comparison based on football ability at the same age) comparison that painted the white English player in a positive light.That's all. I don't know the origin or the original comparison (yes I know I could scroll back and find it, but I can't be arsed) but could it be because they both have occasionally turned out at left back? However, separating this instance from your more general point, I also think that there are a lot of lazy comparisons drawn and race, ethnicity and nationality often play a big role in these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, hakka said: Tottenham have signed a 33 year old Perišić. Do people who have concerns over Acensio, how would you feel if we had landed Perišić? Just curious - not a dig. Always been a big fan of Perisic tbh. Just from his performances at the WC and Euros. I've long said Asensio's not become the player I hoped for because of injuries. Happy to see him leave Madrid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) My apprehension about potential signings from now on is that I'm convinced we have to be signing people of the right age, ability, future potential, injury history, wage demands and motivation for joining. With FFP I think we have to be pretty much nailing most signings from now from an investment perspective - as dull as that sounds. There's loads of excellent footballers on paper who I'd probably be apprehensive about us signing for the above reasons. Don't think it's being snooty, or 'turning your nose up', more an acceptance of the delicate squad building context we're in to progress. It's tricky also because you can go too far the other way and spend a lot of money on long term promise and potential that doesn't have the immediate impact we also need - and that the likes of Bruno will demand. I'm hopeful and indeed confident the club will get it right - but I think as fans we're welcome to judge and critique decisions. Edited July 7, 2022 by ponsaelius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I do think there is something to the racial stereotyping of African players especially. For years there were posts on here about our needing some “black power”. I think that some of posts were tongue-in-cheek, ironically racist, but they were what they were. And the stereotype is lazy. The African stereotype appears to me much more prominent and lazy than any others. Perhaps if we saw more Mexican or Korean players we might see something comparable. (And I mean real Mexicans, not “Mexicans”). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I'm a lot more chilled about signings after seeing what's happened since January not only with signings (bloody good though they've been, not just technically but psychologically as well) but with the players who were already here. We may be linked or even sign players I don't think will work but I'm happy to let the club (manager and whole recruitment team) as not only do they know better than Mr, they've proved it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 minute ago, gazza ladra said: I do think there is something to the racial stereotyping of African players especially. For years there were posts on here about our needing some “black power”. I think that some of posts were tongue-in-cheek, ironically racist, but they were what they were. And the stereotype is lazy. The African stereotype appears to me much more prominent and lazy than any others. Perhaps if we saw more Mexican or Korean players we might see something comparable. (And I mean real Mexicans, not “Mexicans”). I think that was true in the past, not so much now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 To be fair to TCD, there is obvious some racial or nationality bias when it comes to comparing players, but I honestly don’t think it’s because of any racism, it’s kind of natural really. Any slight, technical midfielder from Croatia will be compared to say Modric who is white for example, in the same way that any generic white English midfielder will be compared to a Cleverley for example. I’ve heard Sissoko and Traore comped to one another who are obviously both black, but I don’t think it’s down to skin colour and yet oddly I don’t see how any right minded person could compare the two as being of the same other than none skin colour traits like being fast, not so good on the ball and speed merchants. I remember back in the day Rob Earnshaw was competed to Bellamy or Sir Les and Shearer being two almost identical strikers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, Geordie_once_removed said: I don't know the origin or the original comparison (yes I know I could scroll back and find it, but I can't be arsed) but could it be because they both have occasionally turned out at left back? However, separating this instance from your more general point, I also think that there are a lot of lazy comparisons drawn and race, ethnicity and nationality often play a big role in these. It was Atsu and CHO (e.g. this might be a bit shit). And Milner and Gordon (e.g. good hard working lad - might be better than expected). CHO has never played left-back for Chelsea (or at least not this season). He has played RWB on occassion though. Probably more to do with being a black winger from Chelsea that doesn't play too much for them - might not have known but both have Ghanaian heritage. Btw Brazilians have by far the best stereotype and it's just of being good. Even now 20 years since they last won the WC. If Richarlison was Senagalese his transfer fees would not be so high and I do rate him. Likewise, if Mane was Brazilian he would be higher rated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, gazza ladra said: I do think there is something to the racial stereotyping of African players especially. For years there were posts on here about our needing some “black power”. I think that some of posts were tongue-in-cheek, ironically racist, but they were what they were. And the stereotype is lazy. The African stereotype appears to me much more prominent and lazy than any others. Perhaps if we saw more Mexican or Korean players we might see something comparable. (And I mean real Mexicans, not “Mexicans”). African players or players of African heritage do carry a stereotype in that they are big, strong, powerful and quick or did, but I think that stereotype has been proven to be untrue, like most stereotypes, but we all carry stereotypes regardless of race, skin colour, ethnicity etc. again, I don’t think it’s a racism thing or racial bias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 20 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: Ekitike reminded a lot of people of Ibrahimovic, one of the blackest men alive. Koller, Negredo, Carroll, Big Dunc and Vidic being regularly referred to as beasts is an anti-black racist trope because I said so mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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