Deuce Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Not reading all that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 THE GAME DAILY | JAMES GHEERBRANT february 15 2019, 12:00pm, the times Relegated with Newcastle, Moussa Sissoko and Georginio Wijnaldum now thriving at the top In the summer of 2016, the fax machines were running hot at Newcastle United. The club had been relegated from the Premier League, and were finding plenty of suitors for their best players. Andros Townsend, Daryl Janmaat and Remy Cabella all fetched useful fees, but the headline transfers were two midfielders, Georginio Wijnaldum and Moussa Sissoko, hoovered up by two of the league’s established powers, Liverpool and Tottenham, for the sums of £25 million and £30 million respectively. Even now, those figures seem considerable; at the time, they were genuinely substantial. The thing about moving from a relegated team to an elite team though, is that in all but exceptional cases, players do not come trailing contrails of excitement; instead they arrive carrying the baggage of ignominy. Can a player who couldn’t keep his club above the waterline really be good enough for the rarefied upper echelons of the Premier League? In the mind of fans and pundits, transfers are often about status, about the sort of club you want to be and the sort of player that befits those ambitions. It’s fair to say that the general reaction to the signings of Wijnaldum and Sissoko was somewhat underwhelmed. For two clubs looking to move to the next level, were they really the sort of next-level players they should be targeting? And in the subsequent seasons, both players have struggled hard to overturn the notion that they’re not quite good enough. Sissoko has at times been a figure of fun, Wijnaldum probably more appreciated, but neither was what you’d call a resounding success in their first two campaigns. Instead, they have shifted perceptions slowly, with a gradual thaw leading, in their third season, to a sudden and simultaneous torrent of acclaim. Wijnaldum has played more minutes than any other Liverpool midfielder this season (1851 in the league, more than 400 ahead of James Milner in second); Sissoko, with 1556, is second only to Christian Eriksen among Tottenham midfielders. He was integral to Wednesday night’s superb performance against Borussia Dortmund. Perhaps, as Liverpool and Spurs both continue to excel, we have simply reached a tipping point where these two players have been central, quite literally, to so many impressive and crucial wins that it has become impossible not to recognise their worth. For whatever reason, the qualities that they offer seem to have gained much more widespread appreciation in recent months. Perhaps we shouldn’t be so hard on ourselves for taking a while to wake up to the virtues of Wijnaldum and Sissoko, though. In fairness, it can be quite hard to work out exactly what they do. They don’t score or assist very much at all: each has just two direct involvements this season (Wijnaldum two goals, Sissoko two assists), fewer than Isaac Hayden or Mark Noble. But neither are they notably disruptive defensive players: Wijnaldum is averaging 1.2 tackles and 0.5 interceptions per 90 this season, Sissoko 1.1 and 0.6. Instead, they belong to that class of knitting, shuttling, balancing midfielders who underpin the fabric of a modern team and whose influence is often unseen. There was a mildly amusing incident involving Wijnaldum on social media a few weeks ago (stick with me here). The Dutch midfielder was spotted boarding a plane by an overexcitable fan, who opened his Twitter and wrote: “I’m 99% sure Georginio Wijnaldum is on my EasyJet flight.” What he didn’t realise was that Wijnaldum was at that moment sitting right behind him, recording the whole thing on his own Instagram. The anecdote felt like a nice metaphor for Wijnaldum the player: someone whose presence you can be aware of, without ever really noticing him. He was outstanding in Liverpool’s win over Bournemouth on Saturday, scoring a sublime goal after making a valiant recovery from illness, but without being critical, that sort of performance is unusual: it is rare for Wijnaldum to be the most eye-catching player on the pitch. You might expect him to at least account for a lot of touches, but with just 74.0 touches per 90 this season, he ranks well below any other Liverpool central midfielder. Sissoko averages 68.2 touches in the league, below Harry Winks, Christian Eriksen and Eric Dier (although slightly above Dele Alli and Mousa Dembélé). They are the ghosts in the machine. I realise that I’m lumping Wijnaldum and Sissoko in together here, and they are different players: Wijnaldum is a better passer, Sissoko a more prolific dribbler. Both are good at progressing the ball in different ways. But there is a sense that they share several similarities. Neither of them, for example, are what you would call natural footballers. They don’t have the sleight of foot, the playground skill, the gossamer touch of many elite central midfielders. Sissoko often looks gangly and ungainly on the ball; Wijnaldum, meanwhile, was not a footballer at all in his childhood years, and instead aspired to be a gymnast. If you squint, you can see the traces of that passion in his playing style: smooth, kinetic, balanced. Both players rely a lot on their natural athleticism, but also their intelligence, their feel for the systems and rhythms of modern football, especially in the transition from defence to attack, a phase of the game in which both excel. They have in common a ductile dependability which endears them to their managers and can manifest as an extreme versatility. Wijnaldum, who started his career as a goalscoring No 10 or winger at Feyenoord, played in a back three against Brighton last season. Sissoko has played on both wings for Tottenham, as an attacking and defensive midfielder, and as a wing back. This is the paradoxical predicament of the player that excels in the liminal, transitional, unquantifiable moments of the game: the thing that makes them hard to appreciate also makes them hard to pigeonhole, and thus immensely valuable. They can seem to be nowhere, and they can be anywhere. Obviously, Jürgen Klopp and Mauricio Pochettino deserve credit here: for refusing to conceive of a player’s “quality” as a fixed state, and instead as something latent, malleable, ready to be drawn out given the right instruction, the right nurturing. Perhaps these two formerly unappreciated players are simply enjoying an evanescent moment of critical acclaim. Or maybe, just maybe, something more evolutionary is going on. As modern football becomes more system-based, the value of players like Wijnaldum and Sissoko, players whose contribution falls between the statistical cracks but who glue the system together and can be plugged into multiple positions, will only increase. In football, the peacocks will always draw the eye; but sometimes, it’s important to stop and admire the magpies too. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/relegated-with-newcastle-moussa-sissoko-and-georginio-wijnaldum-now-thriving-at-the-top-s2d8hv6ls?utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter_102&utm_medium=email&utm_content=102_5194230&CMP=TNLEmail_118918_5194230_102 Thought this was interesting cos that's exactly what I do at work, keep shit working without being noticed. Including by my many bosses, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 "Not reading all that", obvs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just amazed it wasn't an htt post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just amazed it wasn't an htt post. I was hoping HTT[/member] would blast in with his stream of consciousness, but hey-ho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Tbf, there’s nothing in that article that HTT hasn’t said already with greater insight and verbosity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemtizz Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 His Gazza story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Tbf, there’s nothing in that article that HTT hasn’t said already with greater insight and verbosity. Cheers man, despite how long it was, I gave it a read and the conclusion I got is both are shite but doing OK now so they are a new level of shit that isn’t as shit as shit shit, and it’s wrong to say they were not worth whatever they cost because they are repaying the fees back slowly by not being as shite as they were when they first joined their elite clubs. I agree Sissoko is an awful footballer, but Gini is actually a very good footballer, he has quick feet and can carry the ball by driving forward with deft close touches to keep the ball from running away (unlike Sissoko) or can dribble past a player or two away from tight marking and space with fancy footwork (unlike Sissoko). He does what Klopp requires from him in the main very well and consistently so, but what he is very bad at is creativity on the ball in terms of his passing or link up play. As shit a footballer as Sissoko is, I think he’d excel in the current set up under Rafa where as Gini would look out of place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 My thing with Rooney is just pure selfishness really. The player he became at Man United was incredible and fully reaped the rewards of his talent, but I never enjoyed the Rooney with rounded edges as much as what his raw potential promised, I missed the street footballer style that he had at Everton and Euro 2004. Got to agree, Rooney undoubtedly become a more rounded footballer and team-player after he joined Man Utd, but Fergie knocked a lot of that natural spontaneous flair out of his game by playing him in so many different positions and roles early on. His own temperament didn’t help either, he possessed that British disease that compells even the most talented of our players to run around chasing everything, flying into tackles and trying always to be the ultimate team player in abundance which Fergie took full advantage of. The same British disease effected Steven Gerrard, David Beckham and Paul Scholes massively in my opinion and pretty much all of our top players back then and a few even today. Gazza and Beardsley before that were the same as well. By the time Rooney was 28 he become nothing more than a flat track bully, still capable of individual genius of course, but by that stage of his career the natural inhibited free flowing, free thinking, spontaneous trickery and flair that made him such a wonderful and gifted young talent to watch when he first broke onto the scene for both club and country, made way for hard work, fewer risks, positional discipline and tactical and instructional conformity which made him a pain to watch at times actually, in comparison anyway. In short, he become a totally different player and had the shine rubbed from his game. Fergie did similar with Cole and Giggs as well. You can’t argue with the stats and their achievements and the teams they played in of course, but when I would look at the likes of Figo or Del Piero or Zidane or Ibrahamivic or Rivaldo or Henry I saw players more of a joy to watch, free to be more expressive, more individual and with non of the inibitions that acted like checkpoints for a lot of our better players like Rooney and Gerrard. On different scales, look at Ginola and Robert for us? If they were British players with the same skills I’m not so sure we’d have enjoyed watching them half as much as we did or they would have been as good as they were for us. The one player I was more excited by when we signed than any other player we have bought was Hugo Viana, but he struggled to demonstrate just how good a player he was in main because our game at that time demanded a central midfielder to run around, get stuck in, tackle, defend, work-hard, be the ultimate team player and above all else, be tough and not some soft tart. Veron struggled and in a much better team as well for similar reasons. Ironically, today, a player that also struggles in many ways with that side of the game, is our own Shelvey. But the game has changed a lot today and players like him can be effective when the tactics and system suits or is paired with someone who can do some of the donkey work stuff. My own gripe with Shelvey is his lack of mobility and quick feet which is a problem for us, not how much he runs about or not, or how strong he is, or how hard working he is or how much he gets back. I want to see our players on the ball and expressing their abilities and take more risks going forward not impersonating Colback who does all that donkey stuff because he has no discernible natural talent, flair and skill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 A pie-throwing Wolves fan has been banned from matches for three years after targeting a rival fan seated below. Josephine Johnson pleaded guilty to hurling the missile, which hit a West Ham supporter on the head during Wolves 3-0 win at Molineux. The 44 year old, from Rugeley, was in the Steve Bull stand when she let the pie drop onto Hammers supporters below on January 29, Walsall Magistrates' Court heard. Prosecuting, Roger Blezzard, said: “An away supporter contacted a steward saying someone had thrown down a pie and it had hit them on the head. "CCTV was reviewed and identified a female had intentionally dropped the pie." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Rumours are that Diego Forlan might be joining Canadian Premier League team Valour FC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroblack Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Tbf, there’s nothing in that article that HTT hasn’t said already with greater insight and verbosity. Cheers man, despite how long it was, I gave it a read and the conclusion I got is both are shite but doing OK now so they are a new level of shit that isn’t as shit as shit shit, and it’s wrong to say they were not worth whatever they cost because they are repaying the fees back slowly by not being as shite as they were when they first joined their elite clubs. I agree Sissoko is an awful footballer, but Gini is actually a very good footballer, he has quick feet and can carry the ball by driving forward with deft close touches to keep the ball from running away (unlike Sissoko) or can dribble past a player or two away from tight marking and space with fancy footwork (unlike Sissoko). He does what Klopp requires from him in the main very well and consistently so, but what he is very bad at is creativity on the ball in terms of his passing or link up play. As shit a footballer as Sissoko is, I think he’d excel in the current set up under Rafa where as Gini would look out of place. Pretty cool that Gini is one of the big guns for the new Holland team. He doesn't get to show what he can really do in the Liverpool team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Realised today that this is the second longest time the club has had without European football since we first featured in 1968. The longest spell was between two UEFA Cup campaigns in 1978 and 1994. The third longest period also came during the Ashley era, by the by. Another big thanks to Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribesman Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 [urlhttps://twitter.com/danielstorey85/status/1097097640372813824][/url] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I count 2 for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I count 2 for us. Six for us, including four SF appearances. Surprised that Liverpool was only three tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 His Gazza story. Enjoyed that a lot, bloody love Lineker just seems a lovely bloke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 His Gazza story. Enjoyed that a lot, bloody love Lineker just seems a lovely bloke. Amazing how down to earth he is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I've been really looking forward to watching that. I know they don't really have all day and all that, but I'd like them to be a bit longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Daniel Levy was apparently against the £30 cap for away fans. Horrible, greedy club, bet he was hoping he could get away with double that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The angry lads won't like this. Why isn't giving our heroes in Iraq and the EDL free stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mofo Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The angry lads won't like this. Why isn't giving our heroes in Iraq and the EDL free stuff? Always thought Jenas was older than Stirling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Man City have bought some Chinese club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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