7th-ometer

[AyeDubbleYoo]

48 minutes ago, OCK said:

twitter is full of absolute professional bellends. Ignore them. 

FYP

[Unbelievable]

4 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

I dont think many are disappointed. Its just that we are lacking in attack and before the window striker and winger was all over the media. Two and a half month later we are still in that boat. Im sure we will get players in. Two attacking players in before the window shuts and there is not much to complain about.

 

 

We don't just need "bodies" though, we need significant upgrades over what we have already, that in the current market cost a minimum of £30m a pop and whom for the most part will be sought after players with better alternatives. We are not (yet) a desirable club to join, especially f.e. for a young striker currently playing CL football to play second fiddle to Wilson. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to bring in better players than what we have, who want to come here in our current state (no European football, a manager who's yet to make a name for themselves, a frankly laughable training facility, etc.) and without blowing the budget and crippling us going forward.

 

And even if the owners were willing and capable of throwing another £60-80m at transfers after spending so £145m on already since January, why as fans would we feel entitled to it? It's not coming from money the club generated themselves and would require the owners putting their own money in (again). It would be nice if they did, but surely that's not something we can expect them to do?

[nufc123]

I hear what you are saying, but its not like we have a bunch of very good attacking players. They would not just be "bodies" in. You just have to look at the numbers. Take away Wilson and its lower Pl standard. Barely even that. 

 

And for the money coming in. Its not the fans who have been out in the media speaking about ambition. Its the owners.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by nufc123

[nufc123]

delete

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by nufc123

[Unbelievable]

4 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

I hear what you are saying, but its not like we have a bunch of very good attacking players. They would not just be "bodies" in. You just have to look at the numbers. Take away Wilson and its lower Pl standard. Barely even that. 

 

And for the money coming in. Its not the fans who have been out in the media speaking about ambition. Its the owners.

 

 

 

Upgrades to lower PL standard players till go for >30m.

 

as for the owners speaking about ambition, I must have missed the memo where they promised to invest big this summer to get us fighting for CL or something. All I’ve ever seen has been sensible statements about long term plans and building the club from the ground up.

[nufc123]

1 minute ago, Unbelievable said:

Upgrades to lower PL standard players till go for >30m.

 

as for the owners speaking about ambition, I must have missed the memo where they promised to invest big this summer to get us fighting for CL or something. All I’ve ever seen has been sensible statements about long term plans and building the club from the ground up.

And that wouldnt be upgrading the attack? Not mentioned CL at all, but if we/the owners want to progress slowly then you cant continue with the Ashley forward line.

[Unbelievable]

1 minute ago, nufc123 said:

And that wouldnt be upgrading the attack? Not mentioned CL at all, but if we/the owners want to progress slowly then you cant continue with the Ashley forward line.

Have you missed last season? We were due for relegation until January. Perhaps when we talk about progress we should take that into account. That’s what I mean when I say perspective. A season of pleasing on the eye football resulting in at a minimum a comfortable midtable finish and with a bit of luck a push for European football, whilst in the background bringing in new commercial partners to allow further future growth and working on improving our facilities is  massive progress from what would have happened if Ashley was still here.

 

Just can’t get my head around how easily people like you simply expect someone else to plough in tens of millions just for you to fee placated about potentially finishing p7 instead of p9 next season. They will invest what they can/want in that they see as the best way forward long term.

[Happinesstan]

On 08/08/2022 at 02:52, Kaizero said:

I think we finished 3rd on the form table if we look at only the 20 last games of last season. Might be off one or two places, can't recall exactly. Either way, that was with a squad worse than this one. If we maintain that momentum and add to it, why shouldn't we be able to replicate some, if not all of, that form? I think we'll be in the pack chasing 6th to 8th. Think Man City, Liverpool are nailed on for 1-2, then Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea will duke it out for 3-5. But 6-8? That race is wide open.

In fairness we made a lot of luck for ourselves over those twenty games, and everything was set up for that. we've lost a bit of the excitement that contributed to that perfect environment, and will struggle more, this season if we don't get a bit more certainty in attack.

We could end up seeing more Chelsea/Evertons than Leicesters.

[nufc123]

8 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

Have you missed last season? We were due for relegation until January. Perhaps when we talk about progress we should take that into account. That’s what I mean when I say perspective. A season of pleasing on the eye football resulting in at a minimum a comfortable midtable finish and with a bit of luck a push for European football, whilst in the background bringing in new commercial partners to allow further future growth and working on improving our facilities is  massive progress from what would have happened if Ashley was still here.

 

Just can’t get my head around how easily people like you simply expect someone else to plough in tens of millions just for you to fee placated about potentially finishing p7 instead of p9 next season. They will invest what they can/want in that they see as the best way forward long term.

Jesus Christ all i said was that some may be dissapointed because we have not found someone in attack. By reports that was pri one. Read my first post about this conversation again. I havent complained about anything! 

[Happinesstan]

20 hours ago, midds said:

Finishing 6th could be a bit of a poisoned chalice tbh. We'd be playing an extra 10-12 games a season, Thursday/Sunday for long periods of the season. That would mean more games, more players, bigger wage bill. Given we're already looking at being reined in by FFP then adding all of that into the equation would suggest it would fall flat on it's face, we don't currently have the academy to pad the squad out in enough games. 

 

Slowly slowly, next 2 or 3 years. Let's build it first before we go big. It'll start with getting the sponsorship deals in first, then we can have a proper go. 

Qualifying for Europe would open doors to bigger sponsorship deals, allowing us to at least try to deal with those issues. It's really only a problem for clubs like Stoke.

[Happinesstan]

2 hours ago, Stottie said:

They coped with Bruno better than anyone so far

This is the key. They appeared willing to let him bring the ball into the middle before pressing him from behind. Mind I missed most of the second half so couldn't be sure.

It could have backfired for them if he'd had a better game, but they hit him like that early on, so might have affected his composure.

Certainly something to watch out for.

[Guest HTT II]

We do have to be patient and we are not as attractive as we may one day be, but RE FFP and stuff, I’d rather we went big now or go home, because we will have to start spending a premium over and above what we think may be a fair valuation of a player or players to get our man/men at some point. We have an ageing team and will likely have to spend big/ish just to replace Trippier, Schar and Burn just for example in the next season or two. Of course we’ve signed Botman for now and the near future, but we need a few more of his and Bruno’s ilk NOW!
 

The momentum from last season needs to be built on ASAP because if we don’t, we run the risk of either just gradually improving or worse, staying still. If we don’t spend a big amount this window, we may need to in January just to keep pace for a mid-table finish. Then what next season? Everyone else is improving and won’t stand still. I get not being taking for mugs and not risking FFP rules, but again, I’d rather we say spent 100-150m now to give us a team that we can grow over a few years for say the top 6 than not and finish mid-table and then to follow that up next season just to do the same.

 

We also run the risk of losing the likes of Botman and Bruno who will want European football in the next two seasons guaranteed, just to keep them happy, never mind any other objectives of theirs like trophies. I do trust the process and the people in charge and I’m convinced we will spend big on the right player, but sometimes we have to just say fuck it and if Leicester for example want 60m for Maddison, give them it.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by HTT II

[Unbelievable]

2 hours ago, nufc123 said:

Jesus Christ all i said was that some may be dissapointed because we have not found someone in attack. By reports that was pri one. Read my first post about this conversation again. I havent complained about anything! 

You literally said: “two attacking players in before the window shuts and there is not much to complain about” which suggests to me that there would be something to complain about if we fail to get two attacking players in. So unless I’ve misunderstood you’re primed to be disappointed/complain unless someone else shells out for a minimum of two more toys?

[nufc123]

10 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

You literally said: “two attacking players in before the window shuts and there is not much to complain about” which suggests to me that there would be something to complain about if we fail to get two attacking players in. So unless I’ve misunderstood you’re primed to be disappointed/complain unless someone else shells out for a minimum of two more toys?

In your first post youre calling out names as Mbappe and Haaland because people are dissapointed. Something i think almost every fan didnt expect. Calling me out for 7th to 9th positions and CL. At the same time im demanding them to plough in tens of millions (something they have not been shyed about themself). 

 

Yes it would be disappointing if they dont bring in attacking players (almost every source reported that)), not toys. Other than that it has been almost perfect.  

[Unbelievable]

46 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

In your first post youre calling out names as Mbappe and Haaland because people are dissapointed. Something i think almost every fan didnt expect. Calling me out for 7th to 9th positions and CL. At the same time im demanding them to plough in tens of millions (something they have not been shyed about themself). 

 

Yes it would be disappointing if they dont bring in attacking players (almost every source reported that)), not toys. Other than that it has been almost perfect.  

I mentioned Mbappe and Haaland in the context where you said the owners had spoken of their lofty ambitions and I responded by saying the press made such suggestions that we would go in for such elite players, but the owners never did. I didn’t say you personally, or many (sensible) NUFC fans in general were expecting such a radical transition.

 

You once again confirm you will be disappointed if they don’t manage to bring attacking players. I maintain that disappointment and suggestions of a lack of progress would be an overreaction considering where we’ve come from and what they’ve already achieved in such a short time. Just show a little faith and patience is all I’m saying.

[Optimistic Nut]

Already 2 clear of Liverpool and 4 clear of West Ham & Man Utd.

[nufc123]

I dont think its an overreaction. Its just that the media lead us to believe that attack was a priority (and by the numbers last season a good reason for that).

But im sure they will so not worried.  

[Away Toon]

3 hours ago, HTT II said:

We do have to be patient and we are not as attractive as we may one day be, but RE FFP and stuff, I’d rather we went big now or go home, because we will have to start spending a premium over and above what we think may be a fair valuation of a player or players to get our man/men at some point. We have an ageing team and will likely have to spend big/ish just to replace Trippier, Schar and Burn just for example in the next season or two. Of course we’ve signed Botman for now and the near future, but we need a few more of his and Bruno’s ilk NOW!
 

The momentum from last season needs to be built on ASAP because if we don’t, we run the risk of either just gradually improving or worse, staying still. If we don’t spend a big amount this window, we may need to in January just to keep pace for a mid-table finish. Then what next season? Everyone else is improving and won’t stand still. I get not being taking for mugs and not risking FFP rules, but again, I’d rather we say spent 100-150m now to give us a team that we can grow over a few years for say the top 6 than not and finish mid-table and then to follow that up next season just to do the same.

 

We also run the risk of losing the likes of Botman and Bruno who will want European football in the next two seasons guaranteed, just to keep them happy, never mind any other objectives of theirs like trophies. I do trust the process and the people in charge and I’m convinced we will spend big on the right player, but sometimes we have to just say fuck it and if Leicester for example want 60m for Maddison, give them it.

 

 

 

Agree very much with this. It will be a real wasted opportunity if we dont seriously improve our attacking options. We need to be aiming for 6th to 8th this season to keep the momentum going. The owners have three years to increase the clubs income and keep on the right side of FFP, if they cant do that then they are not the people we think they are.

[STM]

For context, in the last 17 days of January we signed Bruno, Burn and Targett. 

 

I'm guessing that they aren't wanting to go early in case someone becomes available that they didn't think they could get.

[Stottie]

Again on the seventh-o-meter, in the past 21 games, we've conceded 20 goals. Or if you prefer 10 goals in that past 19 games against teams not called Man City or Tottenham, the only two teams to score twice in those 21 games. fwiw, 9 clean sheets in 21 games is 42.8%. 

 

For us to NOT get seventh, we'll have start conceding more goals. With a lineup including a better midfielder, probably a better keeper, probably a better center half, and probably a better right back. Based on preseason and the two games so far, the team as a whole is moving the ball better and getting 10% or so more possession. In the 2-1 home win against Brighton a few months ago, we only managed 32.4% possession. On Saturday, it was pretty much 50% up to the 70th minute.

[GWN]

11 hours ago, HTT II said:

We do have to be patient and we are not as attractive as we may one day be, but RE FFP and stuff, I’d rather we went big now or go home, because we will have to start spending a premium over and above what we think may be a fair valuation of a player or players to get our man/men at some point. We have an ageing team and will likely have to spend big/ish just to replace Trippier, Schar and Burn just for example in the next season or two. Of course we’ve signed Botman for now and the near future, but we need a few more of his and Bruno’s ilk NOW!
 

The momentum from last season needs to be built on ASAP because if we don’t, we run the risk of either just gradually improving or worse, staying still. If we don’t spend a big amount this window, we may need to in January just to keep pace for a mid-table finish. Then what next season? Everyone else is improving and won’t stand still. I get not being taking for mugs and not risking FFP rules, but again, I’d rather we say spent 100-150m now to give us a team that we can grow over a few years for say the top 6 than not and finish mid-table and then to follow that up next season just to do the same.

 

We also run the risk of losing the likes of Botman and Bruno who will want European football in the next two seasons guaranteed, just to keep them happy, never mind any other objectives of theirs like trophies. I do trust the process and the people in charge and I’m convinced we will spend big on the right player, but sometimes we have to just say fuck it and if Leicester for example want 60m for Maddison, give them it.

 

 

 

 

We just wanted a club that tries remember, well I do and I’m happy with what I’m seeing , I’d love a 9th this season, no dramas , no danger , decent amount of wins …a club that tries. 

[Optimistic Nut]

5 hours ago, Stottie said:

Again on the seventh-o-meter, in the past 21 games, we've conceded 20 goals. Or if you prefer 10 goals in that past 19 games against teams not called Man City or Tottenham, the only two teams to score twice in those 21 games. fwiw, 9 clean sheets in 21 games is 42.8%. 

 

For us to NOT get seventh, we'll have start conceding more goals. With a lineup including a better midfielder, probably a better keeper, probably a better center half, and probably a better right back. Based on preseason and the two games so far, the team as a whole is moving the ball better and getting 10% or so more possession. In the 2-1 home win against Brighton a few months ago, we only managed 32.4% possession. On Saturday, it was pretty much 50% up to the 70th minute.

 

Yep. I completely get people's frustrations in attack but if we concede anywhere near the 62 we did last year, we've failed defensively. I'd be surprised if we conceded more than 50.

[Guest HTT II]

10 minutes ago, GWN said:

 

We just wanted a club that tries remember, well I do and I’m happy with what I’m seeing , I’d love a 9th this season, no dramas , no danger , decent amount of wins …a club that tries. 

I’m the same, and we are now finally trying, but again, at some point we will have to pay over the odds for someone we want and we are desperate for extra added quality in the final 3rd. I’m confident we will get that, but not if we are so robust or stuck on valuations which is Ashley tactics basically. Again, if Leicester want 60m for example for Maddison who we clearly rate and would improve us massively as an attacking force with goals and assists, his age profile, him being English etc. pay the going price, that’s what top clubs do or clubs who want to achieve success.

[Decky]

Its going to be so disappointing if we don't sort ourselves out up front and possibly in the midfield as well. 6th is absolutely there for the taking as Man Utd are a shit show and can't even sign anyone half decent never mind string a run of wins together. West Ham have started slow as well. If we get the right players in we could be involved in the fight for 6th no bother. 

[Wolfcastle]

I voted for either 8th or 9th in the above poll.  Its enough for me at this point but worry if its enough for Bruno/Botman or to attract more of their ilk.

A bit like the above post, its the wasted opportunity that is the concern, now we have opportunities and the means to waste them.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Wolfcastle