Armchair Pundit Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I'm still dubious about anything claimed by the Premier League, after how much crap we went through with our takeover and their attempts at frustrating the whole process, not to mention arseholes like Richard Masters and his cronies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 City imply this was out of the blue, could be bluster, but I'd like to think there were some warnings for them to straighten up immediately, show some good will, cool it with the spending etc. before getting to this point. Not for leniency but because of what a mess its going to create and because having them tone it down is largely the punishment they're going to get anyway (loss of points, trophies, CL place). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfGosforth Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Would much much rather see Chelsea scrutinized and found to be in breach of hundred's of rules and hauled aal ower with a 3 year transfer ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee_Johnny Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 10 hours ago, LionOfGosforth said: Would much much rather see Chelsea scrutinized and found to be in breach of hundred's of rules and hauled aal ower with a 3 year transfer ban. Their squad would probably be big enough for that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 13 hours ago, Turnbull2000 said: Not much that hasn't already been said, but a Times article arguing the rules are essentially to protect the old guard. Mentions Newcastle a few times as well. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yes-manchester-city-broke-the-rule-but-the-rules-protect-the-old-elite-ftr25q2lp Martin Samuel has made this argument several times before. It doesn't hold water, because Man City's objective has been to kill off the competition, not enhance it. If a club is allowed to spend from an unlimited budget, then it's inevitable that that club will replace an elite with a monopoly, which is how things have been developing. I'd also argue that the growing financial gap between all the Premiership clubs and nearly all the Continental clubs has meant that the pool of worldwide talent that clubs like Brighton, Villa, West Ham and ourselves can access has grown wider. The Premiership is effectively becoming a Super League in itself, and one side effect is the gap between top and bottom has already started to narrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BennyBlanco Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I have a lot of city mates but they all share one thing in common. Are the current rules in place to stifle other teams investment outside of the top 6? Definitely. Does that mean you just break the rules with impunity? Does it fuck. There many many ways to get a rule or decision changed without just doing what you want without any regard for the outcome. They just don’t understand that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 14 hours ago, Armchair Pundit said: I'm still dubious about anything claimed by the Premier League, after how much crap we went through with our takeover and their attempts at frustrating the whole process, not to mention arseholes like Richard Masters and his cronies. All that stuff was bullshit tho. The whole thing boiled down to piracy and wether the people that ordered beoutq to steal the premier league football from Bein would be running Newcastle United and let’s be honest if we can take a step back quite rightly so. It would have been ludicrous for the Premier League to accept that. Once Bein and the Saudis settled there was no obstacles. All the rest was just noise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcnick Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 hours ago, gdm said: All that stuff was bullshit tho. The whole thing boiled down to piracy and wether the people that ordered beoutq to steal the premier league football from Bein would be running Newcastle United and let’s be honest if we can take a step back quite rightly so. It would have been ludicrous for the Premier League to accept that. Once Bein and the Saudis settled there was no obstacles. All the rest was just noise This^^ it was all about piracy, how could the PL pass a takeover when the the people taking over had no legal way of watching their own team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Cronky said: Martin Samuel has made this argument several times before. It doesn't hold water, because Man City's objective has been to kill off the competition, not enhance it. If a club is allowed to spend from an unlimited budget, then it's inevitable that that club will replace an elite with a monopoly, which is how things have been developing. I'd also argue that the growing financial gap between all the Premiership clubs and nearly all the Continental clubs has meant that the pool of worldwide talent that clubs like Brighton, Villa, West Ham and ourselves can access has grown wider. The Premiership is effectively becoming a Super League in itself, and one side effect is the gap between top and bottom has already started to narrow. Nevertheless it was still quite surprising to read a Samuels article which didn't make me want to pick up a pitchfork. City's intentions might have been dubious, but his central point that the rules were put in place to protect the old guard was not wrong. We saw the concerted efforts to block our takeover, and the main reason was they didn't want competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 hours ago, TRon said: Nevertheless it was still quite surprising to read a Samuels article which didn't make me want to pick up a pitchfork. City's intentions might have been dubious, but his central point that the rules were put in place to protect the old guard was not wrong. We saw the concerted efforts to block our takeover, and the main reason was they didn't want competition. FFP regulations exist in all the major European leagues, in UEFA competitions, and of course in the EFL. There's nothing exceptional in what the Premiership is doing, and to paint it as a private conspiracy by a particular cabal of clubs isn't accurate, even though of course it can benefit the clubs who already start off with greater resources. It's in the interests of the 'big six' to have some sort of cap on spending. No cap would likely mean that costs would spiral within the elite, as the pressures of competition within the group would lead to clubs taking risks and harming their own profitability. Yes, self-interest plays a part, but there's more to it than just trying to exclude mega-rich newcomers. What I've always felt is that the gap in revenues between the clubs qualifying for the CL and those that don't, is too large. Likewise the gap between Premiership and Championship clubs. It encourages risk-taking as owners stretch resources to the limit in order to maintain their position in either the CL or the Premiership. That's how you get this situation of the game awash with money, but large numbers of clubs in financial difficulty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I get that the rules do make it harder for smaller clubs to get to the level of Man Utd, etc. but there has to be some kind of financial rules or Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudi Arabia would eventually dominate everything and it becomes a closed shop to non state sponsored clubs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, triggs said: I get that the rules do make it harder for smaller clubs to get to the level of Man Utd, etc. but there has to be some kind of financial rules or Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudi Arabia would eventually dominate everything and it becomes a closed shop to non state sponsored clubs Robbing Peter to pay Paul, damned if you do damned if you don't. The league was dominated and a closed shop before Chelsea/Man City's takeovers. (Man United and Arsenal exclusively for 10years with one the exception of Blackburn which was basically a homegrown Chelsea/Man City). There was no way for us in 3rd, to get into 2nd, in 2003. Seems a matter of whom and how its dominated by and who is closed out. Edited February 9, 2023 by Jonas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I personally think the opinion that FFP is simply there to keep the status quo is largely correct. I don’t think unlimited spend is the answer but if you are going to have caps on spending then teams within the Premier League should all have the same absolute monetary caps (none of this percentage of income nonsense) as long as the spending doesn’t jeopardise the future of the club. I don’t think this would be too hard to devise a formula based on not allowing loan balances to exceed certain values and having enough cash reserves held within the club to cover future committed transfer instalments and wages if income isn’t enough to cover them. Allowing some clubs to have wage bills 5-10 times higher than others is ridiculously uncompetitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Yep . Time for a cap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverThere Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 What is the purpose of FFP? If its supposed to prevent clubs from going bust then why would that apply to a Man C or us who are so rich they are NOT going bust. Its obviously more of a pulling up a drawer bridge by the old guard. A team, no matter who they are, are caught in a catch 22 situation where they cant build revenue without attracting better players and cant attract better players without increasing revenue. In theory, you could build an academy and in decades create a pipeline to avoid FFP but even youngsters may not stay and move to the same "big six". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 What a fanny. They got off with a technicality. Hardly completely innocent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Even in sports that have caps in place, like in baseball, the punishment is just an extra tax/fine. So if you're a rich owner you can spend beyond the cap as long as you're also prepared to pay the tax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronson333 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Manchester city manager Pep Guardiola on Sunday's Premier League match at home to Aston Villa: "While we wait for Uefa to make a sentence against us, nine teams - Burnley, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, Spurs, Arsenal, [Manchester] United, Liverpool, Chelsea - out of the Champions League when they wanted that position. "It is said there are not enemies or friends, just interests. They want to put it out to take that position we won on the pitch." Guardiola added: "They say you have to be out of the Champions League. You have to go to League One, or League Two or maybe the Conference? "We have already been in the lower divisions. We will be back there - not a problem, just in case. We will call Paul Dickov and Mike Summerbee and we will do again. "But they should wait. The Premier League put it there but they should wait. We are going to defend ourselves, like we did in the Uefa situation." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, gdm said: What a fanny. They got off with a technicality. Hardly completely innocent "You lie to me and I'm gone"........ does that mean he knew ? Edited February 10, 2023 by madras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Ronson333 said: Manchester city manager Pep Guardiola on Sunday's Premier League match at home to Aston Villa: "While we wait for Uefa to make a sentence against us, nine teams - Burnley, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, Spurs, Arsenal, [Manchester] United, Liverpool, Chelsea - out of the Champions League when they wanted that position. "It is said there are not enemies or friends, just interests. They want to put it out to take that position we won on the pitch." Guardiola added: "They say you have to be out of the Champions League. You have to go to League One, or League Two or maybe the Conference? "We have already been in the lower divisions. We will be back there - not a problem, just in case. We will call Paul Dickov and Mike Summerbee and we will do again. "But they should wait. The Premier League put it there but they should wait. We are going to defend ourselves, like we did in the Uefa situation." Nine teams what ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, madras said: "You lie to me and I'm gone"........ foes that mean he knew ? He probably genuinely believes what they are telling him. Think if they are found guilty he’s off like a shot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyc35i Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Even in sports that have caps in place, like in baseball, the punishment is just an extra tax/fine. So if you're a rich owner you can spend beyond the cap as long as you're also prepared to pay the tax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveready Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: Even in sports that have caps in place, like in baseball, the punishment is just an extra tax/fine. So if you're a rich owner you can spend beyond the cap as long as you're also prepared to pay the tax. That doesn’t mean that it can’t be implemented differently. For example - have the penalties as reduced spend for totalling 150–200% of the overspend (this could be spread over 3-4 years). If they then don’t follow that then instant relegation, they’d have been given fair warning. It would also result in a situation where they’d have to have a fire sale to ensure they comply with the penalty, which would be a further deterrent. With an absolute cap they know the number to work to and there could be no ambiguity in claiming that they expected their commercial revenue to increase or that outside factors out of their control (COVID for example) reduced their revenue. Any non-compliance would be sheer negligence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobsonsWonderland Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, madras said: Nine teams what ? Cantona made more sense with sardines and trawlers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, RobsonsWonderland said: Cantona made more sense with sardines and trawlers I understood that though. I've no idea what he's accusing those nine teams of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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