The College Dropout Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 I like the fact top level football isn’t particular profitable. I’m sure it deters some chancers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 59 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: I like the fact top level football isn’t particular profitable. I’m sure it deters some chancers. I see what you mean for sure. If you are investing a huge amount of money you either: 1) You are so rich you do not care and you love what you are buying with all your heart. 2) You want a return on your investment. People do not get rich pissing away money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, McDog said: I see what you mean for sure. If you are investing a huge amount of money you either: 1) You are so rich you do not care and you love what you are buying with all your heart. 2) You want a return on your investment. People do not get rich pissing away money. Much of it is ego and an excellent long-term investment that rises with the tide. That's what's hurting the championship sides. Owners coming in on an ego trip - aiming to get promoted into the PL gravy train. Failing. Running out of money. Go bust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Just now, The College Dropout said: Much of it is ego and an excellent long-term investment that rises with the tide. That's what's hurting the championship sides. Owners coming in on an ego trip - aiming to get promoted into the PL gravy train. Failing. Running out of money. Go bust. Makes sense. I never liked the Glazers way before they bought Man U from American sports history. But why exactly did they buy the team? WTF do people think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Just now, The College Dropout said: That's what's hurting the championship sides. Owners coming in on an ego trip - aiming to get promoted into the PL gravy train. Failing. Running out of money. Go bust. I'm sure that is true and not good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, McDog said: Makes sense. I never liked the Glazers way before they bought Man U from American sports history. But why exactly did they buy the team? WTF do people think? It’s the way they’ve done it though. Liverpools owners have grown the club, commercial revenues up, stadium modernised and expanded and results on the pitch. Glazers with a leveraged ownership are doing Mike Ashley type things. Not the worst owners ever but… pretty bad like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) The sob story is the subject of today’s athletic podcast. I’m still struggling to understand the actual grievance they have. although interestingly enough; according to Matt Hughes IF Chelsea and citeh are guilty thru are absolutely fucked. Edited November 21, 2023 by r0cafella Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 The more I think about it, the more absurd the criticism of the penalty appears. The amounts that a club might lose by getting relegated, or gain by getting into the Champions League are both huge. If the worst that can happen if you cheat is a 10 point penalty, then many clubs might think it's worth taking the risk of an overspend. The much bigger deterrent seems to be the threat of being sued by clubs who get relegated or miss out on the Champions League. What would effectively be a £200m+ fine would make owners think twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Perhaps its possible or best to view FFP through different lenses at the top and bottom of the table. At the bottom of the league, it stops any wealthier club just blitzing the transfer windows beyond their means to avoid relegation. Everton's gain is someone else's massive loss. Its not hard to make a case for FFP in this situation. At the top of the league, if you limit spending for less established teams, you prevent them from making a realistic and sustainable assault on the title and the Champions League positions. This is an absolute necessity to increase revenue and reduce the FFP exposure. The equation for us is that if we cannot keep it up, we lose Bruno G. An inabilty to keep going forwards will cause a huge step backwards. This is FFP acting to close the door, just after Chelsea and Man City were allowed to spend what they liked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Just now, Stottie said: Perhaps its possible or best to view FFP through different lenses at the top and bottom of the table. At the bottom of the league, it stops any wealthier club just blitzing the transfer windows beyond their means to avoid relegation. Everton's gain is someone else's massive loss. Its not hard to make a case for FFP in this situation. At the top of the league, if you limit spending for less established teams, you prevent them from making a realistic and sustainable assault on the title and the Champions League positions. This is an absolute necessity to increase revenue and reduce the FFP exposure. The equation for us is that if we cannot keep it up, we lose Bruno G. An inabilty to keep going forwards will cause a huge step backwards. This is FFP acting to close the door, just after Chelsea and Man City were allowed to spend what they liked. Your bottom of the league slant isn’t really Logicial, and big clubs absolutely can blitz the transfer market as we’ve seen Chelsea do. Chelsea can spend vast sums despite being much poorer than us because of FFP. Remember, FFP restricts competition at all strata so it I’m West ham, I can keep Bournemouth below me in the pecking order because I’ve tilted the deck to favour myself. As I mentioned in a prior post, if this was about sustainability or protecting clubs from going bust we could just have all owners in the league agreeing to underwrite any financial losses the clubs suffer personally and ban external debt (amongst other things). FFP like many other things nowadays is sold as something beneficial, but it’s actual aim is to protect the established order, as long as your a backwards looking football club you will be on board with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Being brought up in Parliament... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelphish Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Slim said: Being brought up in Parliament... Don't mess with Everton, La'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Slim said: Being brought up in Parliament... In fairness, our local MP has brought up Newcastle's plight many times over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 10 hours ago, The College Dropout said: Oh no - not enough profit for the billionaire owners. Too much going to… the people that actually play. What a shit state of affairs. Yeah that was a really badly written post. I didn't mean that owners should be making more money - I couldn't give a damn about them, its more that unless you are a mega club it seems too difficult for a club to turn a profit and compete despite income levels increasing on an almost annual basis through new TV deals and commercial deals getting bigger. Clubs are basically a vehicle to take cash from us (wither directly through the turnstyles or indirectly through rip off TV subscriptions) and pass them to players and agents. Any money from transfer fees just gets swallowed up as the player you buy to replace one you sold inevitably ends up being more expensive. Basically, imo removing FFP only benefits 2 sets of people - players and agents Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, OCK said: In fairness, our local MP has brought up Newcastle's plight many times over the years. Indeed, but the ownership of a club is a far more appropriate topic for parliamentary discussion, compared to a sporting sanction (however fair or unfair that may be). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 I'm not against it, and can imagine any MP would have done the same questioning how valid and fair the decision is when it affects their community. Pretty sure other clubs with points deductions have done the same. You'd want your MP to at least raise it, even if it was only lipservice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Happy for the penalty. Also support the 300m claim by those 3 clubs. Reason? Lewis Gibson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, OCK said: I'm not against it, and can imagine any MP would have done the same questioning how valid and fair the decision is when it affects their community. Pretty sure other clubs with points deductions have done the same. You'd want your MP to at least raise it, even if it was only lipservice. Dicey road to go down IMO. Where do you draw the line? Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, it’s still a sporting sanction. The punishment is football-related. If a team ends up getting relegated off the back of a terrible VAR decision, for example, do we want their MP raising it? Edited November 21, 2023 by SteV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Everton fans must be sick. Imagine blowing that much money for nothing. It’s one thing to have spent it, copped the penalty but at least look back on some glory years, cup runs, etc. But to have spent that much, now get nailed for it and the absolute shite they’ve had to watch for god knows how long. That must be really galling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelphish Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Lotus said: Everton fans must be sick. Imagine blowing that much money for nothing. It’s one thing to have spent it, copped the penalty but at least look back on some glory years, cup runs, etc. But to have spent that much, now get nailed for it and the absolute shite they’ve had to watch for god knows how long. That must be really galling. Shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 The fall-out of any legal challenge from Everton will be fascinating, as it sets the precedent for what's to come. The Premier League are (coincidentally) now trying to behave like a regulator, but it's rules look vague and and unclear. It's not just about Everton's case either, I don't think the new laws being voted through today would stand up to legal scrutiny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: Yeah that was a really badly written post. I didn't mean that owners should be making more money - I couldn't give a damn about them, its more that unless you are a mega club it seems too difficult for a club to turn a profit and compete despite income levels increasing on an almost annual basis through new TV deals and commercial deals getting bigger. Clubs are basically a vehicle to take cash from us (wither directly through the turnstyles or indirectly through rip off TV subscriptions) and pass them to players and agents. Any money from transfer fees just gets swallowed up as the player you buy to replace one you sold inevitably ends up being more expensive. Basically, imo removing FFP only benefits 2 sets of people - players and agents I don’t think most clubs would spend more because of removing FFP. FFP only limits the ambitious. Most are happy to be on the gravy train. Two things I like about FFP is that it discourages hoarding players (although it encourages short term hoarding). And it incentivises youth development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 We’re all football fans tbh. They’ll be plenty of good Evertonians. There is plenty of utter knobheads who support NUFC. We’re all much of a muchness when it comes down to it. Never judge an entire fan base from afar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, GeordieDazzler said: Ohhh look at this place getting all fancy with Spotify embedding. Edited November 21, 2023 by 54 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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