TRon Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Minhosa said: Yep - some of them are mental but it's indicative of a super-club really in terms of spending power and desire to win things. We're obviously not that and, despite the new found riches, I'd hope we don't adopt the same approach tbh. So we'll have to find a way to compete with the likes of you, Man City and Chelsea etc whilst not being able to pay those sort of wages. My earlier point of the 'money/success' link, I think for that reason, it's only a matter of time until Chelsea end up back fighting for the title when they sort their shit out. Might take a few years but broadly the principle of 'if you throw enough money at it' really does apply in football bar the extreme clusterfucks of QPR, Ridsdales Leeds etc. Your established super-clubs, if you like, have the whole balancd tilted in their favour and will always be there or thereabouts until theres a fundamental shift in how football is governed/structured. I absolutely hope we do adopt that approach, although it will probably take us a couple of years at least to be in a position to do so. If you want the best team, eventually you have to pay top wages. We can't do it yet, but we will at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 minute ago, TRon said: I absolutely hope we do adopt that approach, although it will probably take us a couple of years at least to be in a position to do so. If you want the best team, eventually you have to pay top wages. We can't do it yet, but we will at some point. It'll be interesting whether we're 'allowed' to by the footballing gods who are seemingly hell bent on tilting the table towards the established 'big six' or whatever they're called nowadays. Only a personal preference tbh, but I'd far rather have a team full of Bruno's and Botmans who come to our club/country with their best years ahead of them (in theory anyway) than sign players like Casemiro and Varane. As I said, appreciate that won't be everyone's view, but it's mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Minhosa said: It'll be interesting whether we're 'allowed' to by the footballing gods who are seemingly hell bent on tilting the table towards the established 'big six' or whatever they're called nowadays. Only a personal preference tbh, but I'd far rather have a team full of Bruno's and Botmans who come to our club/country with their best years ahead of them (in theory anyway) than sign players like Casemiro and Varane. As I said, appreciate that won't be everyone's view, but it's mine. I'm never going to disagree about signing Brunos or Botmans, but tbf I laughed at Man U spending £60m on Casimero...but he's won them the cup, and will get them into the CL as well, so I guess they aren't going to complain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) They considered themselves a superclub and they couldn’t accept taking time to rebuild. They needed instant solutions to massive problems. Casemiro was the most obvious signing to make them instantly better. Hopefully we’ll have a middle ground, more considered building with money to splash when needed. Edited February 27, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, Minhosa said: It'll be interesting whether we're 'allowed' to by the footballing gods who are seemingly hell bent on tilting the table towards the established 'big six' or whatever they're called nowadays. Only a personal preference tbh, but I'd far rather have a team full of Bruno's and Botmans who come to our club/country with their best years ahead of them (in theory anyway) than sign players like Casemiro and Varane. As I said, appreciate that won't be everyone's view, but it's mine. You need a mix to win stuff I think. Sometimes you have to spend big and get what you need but on the whole I’m the same, I prefer it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 minute ago, TRon said: I'm never going to disagree about signing Brunos or Botmans, but tbf I laughed at Man U spending £60m on Casimero...but he's won them the cup, and will get them into the CL as well, so I guess they aren't going to complain. Yep - said yesterday at the game, if they literally don't make that one signing, I think we're giving them a right game. Thought he was superb. That's what you're paying for I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Maddison, for instance, just pay what he’s worth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, Sempiternal said: Maddison, for instance, just pay what he’s worth I can't lie, I'd love him but I guess that does contradict what I've said previously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: You need a mix to win stuff I think. Sometimes you have to spend big and get what you need but on the whole I’m the same, I prefer it It also probably depends upon expectation as well tbh. Clearly, at Man Utd there's huge expectation across the board given their history. Given ours, I'm happy to be more patient and would happily watch the owners build it from the ground up over ten years even though that might require living with many ups/downs. Even this season, I was just happy to be out of a relegation scrap and pushing for top half but maybe I'm just easily pleased. Edited February 27, 2023 by Minhosa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 You have two main approaches - the first is the Chelsea, Barcelona, Man U way of buying established superstars at their peak. Or you have slower organic growth with younger players who will be the foundation of your new era. Arsenal, Real Madrid (in recent years), Liverpool to an extent eventually Chelsea (if this new window is anything to go by). I actually think a type of Man City model is what we're looking to emulate. Not the first few years where Mark Hughes was manager. It was only in recent years they ever spent a huge amount on Grealish. Before that, they were buying not the most established names but less known but future potential players like Dias, Laporte, Torres, Mendy, Rodri, Gundogan, Alvarez. Even KdB wasn't a huge star when he was first bought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Minhosa said: I can't lie, I'd love him but I guess that does contradict what I've said previously Haha, nah I don’t think it does, I prefer the route of up and coming players but sometimes you’ve got to buy what you need. You can salo kind of do what arsenal did with partey. They needed him badly, he’s not young but he’s the best DM in the league and they are top. You just have to sometimes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandy Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 17 minutes ago, Minhosa said: Yep - some of them are mental but it's indicative of a super-club really in terms of spending power and desire to win things. We're obviously not that and, despite the new found riches, I'd hope we don't adopt the same approach tbh. So we'll have to find a way to compete with the likes of you, Man City and Chelsea etc whilst not being able to pay those sort of wages. My earlier point of the 'money/success' link, I think for that reason, it's only a matter of time until Chelsea end up back fighting for the title when they sort their shit out. Might take a few years but broadly the principle of 'if you throw enough money at it' really does apply in football bar the extreme clusterfucks of QPR, Ridsdales Leeds etc. Your established super-clubs, if you like, have the whole balance tilted in their favour and will always be there or thereabouts until theres a fundamental shift in how football is governed/structured. Sooner or later we will have to pay these kind of wages or we will win nothing. I'm already a little concerned that Bruno will have witnessed that yesterday and had his head turned ever so slightly. The lad is ambitious and won't want to wait as we "patiently invest". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, TRon said: I'm never going to disagree about signing Brunos or Botmans, but tbf I laughed at Man U spending £60m on Casimero...but he's won them the cup, and will get them into the CL as well, so I guess they aren't going to complain. Casemiro was a hilariously bad deal from a purely financial perspective, but he's exactly what they needed on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) Right now summer priorities LB - wouldn't mind going back in for Renan Lodi at Forest who's done quite well, he has PL experience now CDM - Sangare, Kone, Alvarez - anyone who is in the top tier of young DM's and can grow. I heard Camavinga will be allowed on loan - not a bad shout for a season if no-one else is available and to save money. RW - Get Diaby in, finally. CAM - Maddison, who else. ST - Thuram would be perfect as the forward - could work with Isak as well as instead of him. Could pad out the squad with another CB, a young CM and experienced one on loan, and another LW/forward. Cutting edge is key. This is assuming only the likes of Ritchie, Clark etc leave, not the likes of ASM or Almiron. Would be a decent squad with options again, which is what the current one lacks, especially in midfield. Edited February 27, 2023 by kingxlnc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInfiniteOdyssey Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 We need more proven winners in the team and I’m not sure that’s going to correspond perfectly with Ashworth’s recruitment model. Only Botman, Isak and Trippier have experience winning finals and trophies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 I'd be amazed if we signed five first team ready players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, The Prophet said: I'd be amazed if we signed five first team ready players. True - it's definitely what the team needs to get to the next level though. What's been done this season is unsustainable with this squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingxlnc Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 One of the biggest issues with not investing in Jan was that we were 3rd at the time. Essentially we could have dangled the CL carrot to CL-worthy players - instead of the summer when that may not actually be true. So it's a missed opportunity. Gordon ironically we could have gotten whenever, so there was no need to rush that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, kingxlnc said: One of the biggest issues with not investing in Jan was that we were 3rd at the time. Essentially we could have dangled the CL carrot to CL-worthy players - instead of the summer when that may not actually be true. So it's a missed opportunity. Gordon ironically we could have gotten whenever, so there was no need to rush that one. Truly, I don't think we had the option on doing that for anyone we actually thought was worth the investment in January. If I'm wrong, I'd maybe take a different view on the club's actions, but I think they kept their powder dry because there was nothing really worth shooting at in the CL range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, kingxlnc said: One of the biggest issues with not investing in Jan was that we were 3rd at the time. Essentially we could have dangled the CL carrot to CL-worthy players - instead of the summer when that may not actually be true. So it's a missed opportunity. Gordon ironically we could have gotten whenever, so there was no need to rush that one. The club have briefed reporters that none of their first choice targets were available. That makes you think those players didn't want to move in January, their clubs didn't want to sell them in January or their clubs only wanted to sell them for daft cash. You can't dangle the carrot of a competition that you haven't qualified for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Was the var decision scrutinised on tv? I saw nothing at half time and turned my back on it all at the final whistle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) I think the top and bottom of it is we're a good side between the boxes; we press well, keep the ball well and until recently have been defensively superb but we lack any real guile, ingenuity or quality in the final 3rd. The final ball has hardly ever been there post Boxing Day. Our wingers aren't good enough and we sorely lack the quality in midfield that allow us to control the midfield battle against the real top sides. That can only be rectified in the transfer market. Maddison would have been ideal in the offensive side of things (also would help our set piece issue) and for the midfield an upgrade on Longstaff. Both are musts in the summer. As well as all the other positons we need. Edited February 27, 2023 by HaydnNUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUHRLYASLEEVESUP Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 24 minutes ago, Minhosa said: It also probably depends upon expectation as well tbh. Clearly, at Man Utd there's huge expectation across the board given their history. Given ours, I'm happy to be more patient and would happily watch the owners build it from the ground up over ten years even though that might require living with many ups/downs. Even this season, I was just happy to be out of a relegation scrap and pushing for top half but maybe I'm just easily pleased. I'm generally in agreement about growing organicaly FWIW. But even doing that, at some point we will have to pay the top wages for the top players. But hopefully we don't just chuck money at it like Chelsea. Not that we are going to be allowed it anyway, even if we wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said: Just so happy to have these owners, she was hugging all the players yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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