OCOCOL Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 3 hours ago, FloydianMag said: In the US is it correct that US registered Debit and Credit cards can’t be used to gamble online? it’s state dependent. 7 states have legal online gambling. And most of these are only in last year or so. They’re predominately liberal and democrat states like New Jersey. Gambling transactions are processed on merchant category code 7995 and approval rates are low even in legal states (they’ll be zero elsewhere) due to US acquiring banks still having a low risk appetite towards remote gaming. in progressive states it’ll change as there’s tax to be made but in the guns, god and guts regions they’ll never embrace it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Don't think he's bet on football, so probably a slap on the wrist. His defence is as such, so it will take a lot more investigation before any decision comes down I suspect, or it will be clear he didn't and so a slap on the wrist. If he did bet on football he will get a much bigger ban but he would have to be really dumb so think it will be slap on the wrist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 2 hours ago, UncleBingo said: Baldwards I know, but hoping this is true.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/10/26/newcastle-reduce-sandro-tonali-wages-betting-gambling-ban/ Didn't know UEFA had yet to extend his ban - so in theory he is still able to play in the PL. That aside - no way should he get full pay - I am sure he can get by on reduced wages. The money can be used to pay his replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 Possibly a procedural thing, sanction passed with maybe a week to appeal, if no appeal then the sanction starts at the end of that ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, GideonShandy said: Pretty sure clubs can't fine players for things they did before they joined the club. Of course you can if you're at fault for not fulfilling your current contract obligations. Edited October 26, 2023 by macphisto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 There's a lot of talk about empathy and support for an addict and I'm willing to give him that if he makes an apology because so far Tonali has only spoken about Tonali. If he's waiting for the ban hammer to land then fair enough, but at the moment there's been nothing publicly said about the club and fans from him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mattoon said: There's a lot of talk about empathy and support for an addict and I'm willing to give him that if he makes an apology because so far Tonali has only spoken about Tonali. If he's waiting for the ban hammer to land then fair enough, but at the moment there's been nothing publicly said about the club and fans from him. When did he speak about himself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, macphisto said: Of course you can if you're at fault for not fulfilling your current contract obligations. They can't fine him for a breach of club discipline for stuff he did before he joined the club. I suppose they could sue him for fraud or maybe breach of contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbee909 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I don't think Milan knew anything about this personally, but you can bet they'll nudge-nudge-wink that they did know, in order to make themselves look better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, GideonShandy said: They can't fine him for a breach of club discipline for stuff he did before he joined the club. I suppose they could sue him for fraud or maybe breach of contract. What is a breach of contract? Every breach of club discipline is in reality a breach of contract. Legally, clubs can not fine a player on disciplinary grounds if they have not broken an agreement in their contract. He has broken his contractual agreement with the club and can't play matches, a situation he is responsible for. Edited October 27, 2023 by macphisto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 13 hours ago, macphisto said: If he's on full pay then you can kiss goodbye to any discipline in the club. How could you ever fine anyone for being late to training and not someone who through their own actions is suspended for the season? I agree that, in fairness, he shouldn't be on full pay. But I don't think that can be accomplished by imposing a "club discipline" fine as might be imposed on a player who turns up late for training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbee909 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 17 minutes ago, macphisto said: What is a breach of contract? Every breach of club discipline is in reality a breach of contract. Legally, clubs can not fine a player on disciplinary grounds if they have not broken an agreement in their contract. He has broken his contractual agreement with the club and can't play matches, a situation he is responsible for. I don't think it'll stand up fully, that someone can break a contractual agreement prior to having that contract in place. Would set a weird precedent. But I'm sure there'll be some stuff in there about priors that may prevent one fulfilling their current contract though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, GideonShandy said: I agree that, in fairness, he shouldn't be on full pay. But I don't think that can be accomplished by imposing a "club discipline" fine as might be imposed on a player who turns up late for training. I see where you're coming from but I don't see how you can fine a player, who is available for selection, for being late for training and not fine a player (salary reduction) who is unavailable for selection. Which is the bigger "crime"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, elbee909 said: I don't think it'll stand up fully, that someone can break a contractual agreement prior to having that contract in place. Would set a weird precedent. But I'm sure there'll be some stuff in there about priors that may prevent one fulfilling their current contract though. It would all depend on what he has disclosed to the club. When he signed the contract, there would have been a clause related to disclosure which he has obviously broken unless he told the club about his gambling. I think every contract I've ever signed has had a generic clause about a failure to disclose information could result in dismissal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 6 hours ago, Mattoon said: There's a lot of talk about empathy and support for an addict and I'm willing to give him that if he makes an apology because so far Tonali has only spoken about Tonali. If he's waiting for the ban hammer to land then fair enough, but at the moment there's been nothing publicly said about the club and fans from him. He's not said anything, likely because he's in the middle of a criminal investigation, so harsh to say he's only spoken about himself. I imagine there will be some form of statement once the ban is confirmed, either through the club or from him directly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Morally, I think he should lose a portion of his salary. He's not exactly going to be out on the streets, is he? Maybe that form of punishment was part of the plea-bargaining that went on with the Italian authorities. We'll find out soon. As with any addiction or compulsion, he should receive support and empathy, although of course it is down to him to make use of it. The condition shouldn't be called a 'disease' though. A disease comes from the outside and can be cured from the outside ie with medication. An addiction is internal and the cure involves taking responsibility. Often the cure is never entirely complete and there's a painful, life-long battle. Dealing with that challenge can be very rewarding in terms of personal growth though. I don't think he'll find a better supporter than Eddie, and maybe everyone can grow from this. Again, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but watching Sandro and Eddie together on the touchline before he came on, there seemed to be some real communication going on, for once. Sandro seemed to be engaging in a proper dialogue - previously he'd always seemed remote, and a bit out of touch with everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 He's done us like a kipper like but we're the one's left holding the baby so have no choice but to look after it. Hobson's choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUHRLYASLEEVESUP Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Could anyone explain how it's taken the Italian FA 2 weeks to announce the issue & then determine the ban when the Paqueta situation seems to be rumbling on for months ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Just now, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said: Could anyone explain how it's taken the Italian FA 2 weeks to announce the issue & then determine the ban when the Paqueta situation seems to be rumbling on for months ? Is it not because the former was/is a criminal investigation whilst the latter is a Brazilian FA investigation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Just now, Groundhog63 said: Is it not because the former was/is a criminal investigation whilst the latter is a Brazilian FA investigation Plus we don't know how long the Italian authorities have been actively on the case, as it were Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUHRLYASLEEVESUP Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said: Plus we don't know how long the Italian authorities have been actively on the case, as it were Yes perhaps, its the announcement then punishment period I was wondering about, 2 weeks ago non of us knew about Tonalis gambling, 2 weeks later ban announced, seems like ages ago Paqueta issues were known & the English FA were investigating, who was Paqueta playing for when he got his family / friends to bet on him getting a card etc (if that was the case) ? Edited October 27, 2023 by RUHRLYASLEEVESUP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 What a bellend https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-sandro-tonali-saudi-betting-31284328 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 "Chief Sports Writer" It really is the easiest job in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1892 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I’m conflicted on if he should receive his full wage whilst banned. On the one hand I think players are paid an obscene amount of money and he has been signed to these wages knowing that he was involved in an activity that would likely jeopardise his playing time here, with the other side being that there is a relationship to be maintained between the player and the club and if we do intend on him having a long and productive career here, there is no benefit to the club potentially damaging that by being seen to punish him for what could be a genuine addiction. The best outcome would be for him to agree to give up a portion of his wage during his ban and for it to be donated to good causes in the region, with Tonali playing an active role in supporting them in person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzle Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: "Chief Sports Writer" It really is the easiest job in the world. No doubt typed that from his Saudi hotel preparing for that sorry excuse for a boxing fight tomorrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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