NUFC Transfer Rumours

[Nucasol]

1 minute ago, Fenham Mag said:

'Chelsea est aussi sur le coup'

 

 Move on.

 

Todd le crapaud Boehly suce des bites pour du tabac.

[Moose]

7 minutes ago, Fenham Mag said:

'Chelsea est aussi sur le coup'

 

 Move on.

 

Oh well. Enjoy Strasbourg Gabriel.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Touch of Marlow from The Wire about him

[gbandit]

26 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

Touch of Marlow from The Wire about him

More than a touch like. Hope his agent is Snoop

[Deuce]

As we’re not in a position to compete directly with the cartel for players that they’re set on (see: Mbeumo, Sesko, Ekitike, etc.), reckon we ought to be the club that does to the likes of Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, etc. what the cartel does to us. Swoop in on their signings, the ones that they flip a year or two later for a big profit. It sucks to be a stepping stone club, but we’ll have to be resigned to that as we grow.

[500bhp]

We could have signed 19 year old Rayan for £25m in January and decided not to. He already has more G/A in PL this season than Elanga.

 

Just my view but this seems the type of player Wilson would go for, not so much Eddie. 

[Elbel1]

10 minutes ago, 500bhp said:

We could have signed 19 year old Rayan for £25m in January and decided not to. He already has more G/A in PL this season than Elanga.

 

Just my view but this seems the type of player Wilson would go for, not so much Eddie. 

That's a pretty low bar seeing as I've scored the same number of Premier League goals as Elanga this season and I only have 1 less assist. 

[ElectricWizard]

7 hours ago, bobbydazzla said:

And that was the point.

 

Same as Paul McCartney writing a lot of brilliant songs between 63-70 when he had John, George and Ringo providing the assists. 
 

But then his songwriting went to shit once he was relying on Linda for assists. 

Shame your not referencing the Rolling Stones.........could of got a Bill Why-Aye-Man joke in there.....

 

 

Edited April 21 by ElectricWizard

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, 500bhp said:

We could have signed 19 year old Rayan for £25m in January and decided not to. He already has more G/A in PL this season than Elanga.

 

Just my view but this seems the type of player Wilson would go for, not so much Eddie. 

Signing a player in summer and his replacement in January is fairly unusual TBF. 

[Kanj]

1 hour ago, Deuce said:

As we’re not in a position to compete directly with the cartel for players that they’re set on (see: Mbeumo, Sesko, Ekitike, etc.), reckon we ought to be the club that does to the likes of Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, etc. what the cartel does to us. Swoop in on their signings, the ones that they flip a year or two later for a big profit. It sucks to be a stepping stone club, but we’ll have to be resigned to that as we grow.

 

the issue is some of those players would happily go to either 3 of those clubs as they will have a clear development an sell-on policy. 

[Deuce]

8 minutes ago, Kanj said:

 

the issue is some of those players would happily go to either 3 of those clubs as they will have a clear development an sell-on policy. 

We might have to resign ourselves to the same in some circumstances.

[500bhp]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Signing a player in summer and his replacement in January is fairly unusual TBF. 

Maybe, but some might say that a progressive club and DOF model would have signed us Rayan and shifted Murphy out on loan. 

[Myleftboot]

4 hours ago, 500bhp said:

We could have signed 19 year old Rayan for £25m in January and decided not to. He already has more G/A in PL this season than Elanga.

 

Just my view but this seems the type of player Wilson would go for, not so much Eddie. 

Eddie always used to say we have a small pool of players to choose from. Wonder if that’s still the case.

[Mikky]

2 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

Eddie always used to say we have a small pool of players to choose from. Wonder if that’s still the case.

Well that’s all well and good but don’t then sign a player (Elanga) who is the polar opposite of your preferred option (Mbuemo) - the whole recruitment process needs revisiting 

[Asprilla]

I don’t mind getting younger/cheaper players who we sell on. I don’t see how we get any PSR wriggle room by buying the likes of Wissa and any other Premier league “stars” looking for a pay day

[Harveys Barn]

Every season we see Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Everton (and this season, Sunderland and Leeds) sign relatively unheralded or unknown players, for 10-30m, who go on to be crucial, best-11, EPL players.

 

So I can't accept rubbish claims that the players aren't out there, or that we must spend 50-80m just to be able to improve our squad.

 

This has been one of Eddie's greatest errors in the past 18 months especially. It's a little bit of hubris. And not backed up by what we see every week in the league.

 

 

Edited April 22 by Harveys Barn

[SteV]

8 minutes ago, Harveys Barn said:

This has been one of Eddie's greatest errors in the past 18 months especially. It's a little bit of hubris. And not backed up by what we see every week in the league.

I classify it more as the club’s error.

 

I very much doubt the managers of those clubs you list are personally identifying these types of players, and saying ‘buy these’.

 

Have we, as a club, identified these players, and presented them to Eddie as viable options? None of us really know the answer to this, but I’d be of the opinion that the constant churn in senior positions, has probably meant we haven’t had the kind of coherent strategy that you need in order to adopt this policy.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think when Howe says we have a small pool of players to choose from he's trying to say we are careful and selective in our signings. Of course last summer is the exception.

 

Like I keep saying, there's every reason to expect a more strategic summer this time around. We have never had the full setup in place like we do now, and I'm sure everyone has had to take their medicine over how disastrous last summer was.

 

Even if Howe wanted a similar profile of signing to the exclusion of all else (which I don't believe he would anyway), he doesn't have the argument to make now.

 

We've been through the southern spreadsheet club argument before, I guess the difference now is that we might have moderated our ambitions (and been burned by last summer) to the point that those types of signings are now becoming pretty much essential. My ideal would still be a combination of the two strategies though, young promising risks with the odd star signing on top. Like we've argued before, if survival with the odd Euro flirt is your aim then you can get by on cheaper players. Especially if you have a dodgy multi club arrangement or that kind of thing.

 

 

Edited April 22 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Elbel1]

41 minutes ago, Harveys Barn said:

Every season we see Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Everton (and this season, Sunderland and Leeds) sign relatively unheralded or unknown players, for 10-30m, who go on to be crucial, best-11, EPL players.

 

So I can't accept rubbish claims that the players aren't out there, or that we must spend 50-80m just to be able to improve our squad.

 

This has been one of Eddie's greatest errors in the past 18 months especially. It's a little bit of hubris. And not backed up by what we see every week in the league.

 

 

 

Over the last 10 years all the clubs you name checked have qualified for Europe a massive combined total of 3 times. 

If your goal is midtable obscurity and to mildly flirt with a top 10 finish then it's much safer to take a gamble on players in the 10-30 million bracket. 

That in no way excuses the club for their approach last summer but it does, to a certain degree, explain it. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, Elbel1 said:

Over the last 10 years all the clubs you name checked have qualified for Europe a massive combined total of 3 times. 

If your goal is midtable obscurity and to mildly flirt with a top 10 finish then it's much safer to take a gamble on players in the 10-30 million bracket. 

That in no way excuses the club for their approach last summer but it does, to a certain degree, explain it. 

 

Correct, said this loads. And also the approach is quite similar to a club like Wolves who are about to finish bottom. They've actually made some signings that look pretty exciting on the surface. 

[nufcjmc]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

Correct, said this loads. And also the approach is quite similar to a club like Wolves who are about to finish bottom. They've actually made some signings that look pretty exciting on the surface. 

It's not one approach over another for me its blended is what is needed if a big purple left and one wasn't ready to step up already at the club i would expect them to drop good money on their replacement. 

 

At the same time we do however need to shop in the young and hungry bracket to find the next gem/ spread the Financial risk on them failing/have a pool of assets that do well already at the club to slot in to aging and leaving players or have a pool of players your open use as player trading. 

 

Balance needs to be found dont do full chelsea and have 45 players on the books you have no plans for except to stop someone else getting them but a more sustainable less all or nothing approach. 

 

I hated the comments from howe about very small group of players who could improve us that while is risk averse possibly doesn't work when you look at how badly it can go i.e. Last summer. 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, nufcjmc said:

It's not one approach over another for me its blended is what is needed if a big purple left and one wasn't ready to step up already at the club i would expect them to drop good money on their replacement. 

 

At the same time we do however need to shop in the young and hungry bracket to find the next gem/ spread the Financial risk on them failing/have a pool of assets that do well already at the club to slot in to aging and leaving players or have a pool of players your open use as player trading. 

 

Balance needs to be found dont do full chelsea and have 45 players on the books you have no plans for except to stop someone else getting them but a more sustainable less all or nothing approach. 

 

I hated the comments from howe about very small group of players who could improve us that while is risk averse possibly doesn't work when you look at how badly it can go i.e. Last summer. 

 

Yes, exactly. Also, the kinds of players Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Everton (and this season, Sunderland and Leeds) sign that are relatively unheralded or unknown and that cost 10-30m, are the types of players we should be signing to make up the squad and push the first team players, rather than signing them as immediate first team players like those clubs may have to.

 

In some instances though, some of them will even be good enough to go straight into the first team too. Just like Bruno, Botman and Thiaw did.

[nufcjmc]

35 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yes, exactly. Also, the kinds of players Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Everton (and this season, Sunderland and Leeds) sign that are relatively unheralded or unknown and that cost 10-30m, are the types of players we should be signing to make up the squad and push the first team players, rather than signing them as immediate first team players like those clubs may have to.

 

In some instances though, some of them will even be good enough to go straight into the first team too. Just like Bruno, Botman and Thiaw did.

If we were further in our journey with backing of more revenue we can afford to let those teams take the risk then pay the premiums to take them off those clubs when they are proven. 

 

We arent there yet as many have said a combo of blowing our load last summer on flops and the ever growing list of players we need before we look to replace those who are sold mean the money isn't there to do it any other way. 

 

Just have to hope some of the money spent on the under 21s already purchased can come good enough to bolster the squad or at least start attracting good fees. 

 

 

Edited April 22 by nufcjmc

[Chicken Dancer]

10 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yes, exactly. Also, the kinds of players Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Everton (and this season, Sunderland and Leeds) sign that are relatively unheralded or unknown and that cost 10-30m, are the types of players we should be signing to make up the squad and push the first team players, rather than signing them as immediate first team players like those clubs may have to.

 

In some instances though, some of them will even be good enough to go straight into the first team too. Just like Bruno, Botman and Thiaw did.

 

Absolutely. The mackems have signed some players that would have definitely played a role for us this season - in fact they basically signed a new team for the price we paid for the 3 players we signed from the Premier League.

[Theregulars]

1 hour ago, Harveys Barn said:

Every season we see Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Everton (and this season, Sunderland and Leeds) sign relatively unheralded or unknown players, for 10-30m, who go on to be crucial, best-11, EPL players.

 

So I can't accept rubbish claims that the players aren't out there, or that we must spend 50-80m just to be able to improve our squad.

 

This has been one of Eddie's greatest errors in the past 18 months especially. It's a little bit of hubris. And not backed up by what we see every week in the league.

 

 

 

Which players that fit into such a bracket has Howe been responsible for turning down? 

 

As @SteV correctly points out, which such players have been offered to Howe for review? 

 

Looking at it holistically, I would be surprised if Howe came in knowing that he was going to request Bruno, Botman and Tonali. I think these were players recommended to him and he agreed. There are also players who Howe has likely personally requested and got (Trippier, Burn, Pope, Barnes, Elanga, Ramsey). Some I'm not sure whether recommended to him or requested by him (Tino, Hall [my inclination is that the latter was suggested by Ashworth]) and some have been purchases forced by crap circumstances (Wissa, Woltemade, Vlachodimos). 

 

I think it is entirely reasonable to say that the club as a whole needs to get comfortable sharpish with transacting in the manner of the first category (sensibly priced players from abroad recommended to the manager to fit a style and strategy). There has been - particularly recently - perhaps too much emphasis on the second category, but to me this seems pretty reasonable given (i) Mitchell's narcissism and ineffectiveness meaning that the second category was not available and (ii) that Howe delivered a trophy and two Champions League qualifications with a 7th / 8th best wage budget. 

 

So I don't really see how you can look at the whole picture and say the issue is managerial hubris; perhaps he has overstepped the mark and slapped away suggestions by a DoF unreasonably but from where I sit it looked like he worked fairly harmoniously with Ashworth for a short spell and that he (like many of us) found Mitchell obnoxious. Perhaps in fact Howe is just incredibly difficult to work with and refuses to engage with transfer suggestions which do not relate to his hand-picked "PL-proven" mantra. Personally I reckon he just has a specific skillset and attitude in mind and last summer I think he was left to run / decide matters (and specifically identify players himself) with no warning. Given that he is obsessive about e.g. video analysis of opposing teams, his knowledge base of players' suitability to play for his side will be a lot more detailed re: PL players in my view. I think he will have worked 80-90% on those players over his career compared to Europe-based players. I think he has probably spent only minimal time on leagues outside of Europe. So, when asked to identify players, perhaps he went with his comfort zone (maybe that is blinkered or limited thinking but I think it's probably quite rational). 

 

Certainly we can have a conversation about whether he is still able to identify effective players (Elanga is an undeniable red flag), but I don't see how the situation is caused by Howe being so hubristic that he refuses to sign better value players from outside the Premier League. Even the Summer just gone 2 of the 6 signed were from the Continent, so yes the minority but clearly he's open to the idea.

 

Overall just looks again like trying to interpret matters very narrowly to suit a needlessly absolutist and conclusive narrative. Personally I don't think Eddie Howe is remotely hubristic, he strikes me as humble, modest and very willing to operate backstage while others take the headlines.