Everton 3-0 Newcastle United (07/12/23)

[madras]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

We are better than Bournemouth, Wolves, Everton, West Han and probably Brighton too. We should have played better than we have on the whole and picked up more than 2 points against these.  

I'm not sure the teams and levels of fitness we were able to put out were better, except West Ham which was 2 points dropped.

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, madras said:

Defenders you can usually get away with, most teams don't, if we'd rotated the defence tonight and that was the result twitter would want Eddie sacked.

 

Just out of curiosity what rotation did you envisage beforehand and did you post it anywhere ?

Of course not ? As I said in my previous post, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But I’ve posted on here a number of times about Eddie’s stubbornness when it comes to swapping players out - particularly Dan Burn when he was going through a dodgy patch but still being picked every game.

It just seems like an obvious thing to do when we’re stripped bare by injuries and playing every 3 days doesn’t it? That’s not rhetorical, I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s logical to rest players when you can, surely? 
And honestly, I think Eddie has enough good will in the bank that if he came out and said ‘we’re rotating the squad to give certain players a well earned rest’ and then we lost, most would be understanding and reasonable about it.

[Sima]

I reckon we win this with Wilson up front.

 

He seems more streetwise than Isak in games like this.

[Away Toon]

We were always likely to go backwards this season, it's just how far and whether or not the owners will feel it's acceptable. There are mitigating circumstances for sure but it was always highly predictable. That Liverpool have improved is not surprising but that Villa since Emery joined have out performed us is. 

[wormy]

6 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Do other forums have so many posters spouting shite, reactionary, OTT nonsense after defeats and performances that can be easily explained. Or is it exclusive to this place? 

 

Granted I don't frequent other team's boards but I can't shake the feeling there's a fuck ton worse than here. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by wormy

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, madras said:

That's true. Do you think we'd get better away from home with just a regular style injury list, you know like 3 or 4 from the squad ?

If judging by City, Brighton, West Ham and Wolves - not much better no. 
 

I saw 3 of those games. We were bad in all 3.  

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Do other forums have so many posters spouting shite, reactionary, OTT nonsense after defeats and performances that can be easily explained. Or is it exclusive to this place? 

 

After a 3-0 defeat to a hoofball side threatened with relegagtion? I'd say probaby yes.

[Wilson]

8 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

Our press was really poor. We also did huge personal errors. We were very flat all game.

 

Can I ask why you think that is? 

 

Is it due to the entire team deciding to down tools?  Did they suddenly become shite? Is there a possibility they may feel tired once in a while? Was it an 'off' day if so what caused it? 

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Holmesy said:

Of course not ? As I said in my previous post, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But I’ve posted on here a number of times about Eddie’s stubbornness when it comes to swapping players out - particularly Dan Burn when he was going through a dodgy patch but still being picked every game.

It just seems like an obvious thing to do when we’re stripped bare by injuries and playing every 3 days doesn’t it? That’s not rhetorical, I can’t be the only one who thinks it’s logical to rest players when you can, surely? 
And honestly, I think Eddie has enough good will in the bank that if he came out and said ‘we’re rotating the squad to give certain players a well earned rest’ and then we lost, most would be understanding and reasonable about it.

I disagree. Folk would still complain.

 

I think, personally, folk complain in some case because it's therapeutic. Fatigue isn't acceptable to them because it has to be something of greater accountability. Substituting lesser (but less fatigued) players in would give them that accountability to complain about just as folk are complaining about the lack of. Folk just want to complain.

[Interpolic]

If you'd said to me at the start of the season that we'd be playing the same 10 outfield players every 3 days in November/December, one of them being a 17 year old, with no options off the bench then I'd have thought there'd be a decent chance we'd be losing or drawing almost every game.

 

Our season should be fucked right now but it isn't. Now isn't the time for inquests into our away form, I'd be stunned if that doesn't turn around once we have a decent pool of players to manage the schedule better. It's about sticking in and getting as many wins as we can til we're out of this insane situation. 

[dcmk]

8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We are better than Bournemouth, Wolves, Everton, West Han and probably Brighton too. We should have played better than we have on the whole and picked up more than 2 points against these.  

It's a super competitive league mate. 

 

Luton very nearly got a result against the league leaders just yesterday.

 

Most of those results have been when we have had a depleted squad.. don't you think it's overly harsh to expect better results when we are being forced to play the same players every 3 days?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by dcmk

[Shak]

With our lack of squad depth we're just gonna have more games like this than most teams in and around us.

 

It's not just the fatigue, it's the fact that some days individual players just aren't on it.

 

Was pretty obvious that Isak wasn't on his game tonight for one reason or another but we just had to persist with him. Same for Joelinton and Gordon, to name but two.

 

Maybe we go on and lose anyway, but if we'd been able to bring on Wilson, Willock and Barnes for those three you'd imagine the last half hour have had a decent chance of working out better for us.

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Interpolic said:

If you'd said to me at the start of the season that we'd be playing the same 10 outfield players every 3 days in November/December, one of them being a 17 year old, with no options off the bench then I'd have thought there'd be a decent chance we'd be losing or drawing almost every game.

 

Our season should be fucked right now but it isn't. Now isn't the time for inquests into our away form, I'd be stunned if that doesn't turn around once we have a decent pool of players to manage the schedule better. It's about sticking in and getting as many wins as we can til we're out of this insane situation. 

Yep. More players back in Jan and the fixture congestion reducing by February hopefully.

[nufc123]

3 minutes ago, Wilson said:

 

Can I ask why you think that is? 

 

Is it due to the entire team deciding to down tools?  Did they suddenly become shite? Is there a possibility they may feel tired once in a while? Was it an 'off' day if so what caused it? 

Not sure what you mean here. The Brighton game or Everton?

[Erikse]

17 minutes ago, Heron said:

I don't think anyone who is saying Bournemouth and Everton were fatugue related would apply that same reasoning to Liverpool, Man City or Brighton...

 

You're generalising.

 

 

 

 

Missed the point. I'm saying that we can't just automatically blame defeats on fatigue only nomatter what, even in our current situation. It's still possible to play better. Do you think we should just blame any bad performance in december on fatigue, nomatter how the games go? We can already confirm in advance that the team will play as well as they possibly can in every game in december then.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Erikse

[Ronaldo]

11 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

McTominay?

No. Though goals from midfield would be lovely. 4 goals I think all season from them all. Not good enough.

[Wilson]

Just now, nufc123 said:

Not sure what you mean here. The Brighton game or Everton?

 

I jumped in, assumed you were talking about tonight. 

 

 

[jack j]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

Yep. More players back in Jan and the fixture congestion reducing by February hopefully.

Hopefully it's not though. I'd rather be in 3 cups in February and put the league on the back burner. Sure we'll pick up points along the way with a bigger squad anyway..

[madras]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If judging by City, Brighton, West Ham and Wolves - not much better no. 
 

I saw 3 of those games. We were bad in all 3.  

City we were actually better than last season, Brighton was similar but we didn't concede, Wolves was similar bit we should have held on and West Ham like I've said was 2 pts dropped, since Barnes went off V Sheff Utd it's been like Eddie hasn't had many decisions to make, he's played what's fit and trued to make tactics round that.

 

Had we played so far under normal conditions you'd have a point but I'm struggling to remember as bad an injury scenario that's lasted so long.

[nufc123]

1 minute ago, Wilson said:

 

I jumped in, assumed you were talking about tonight. 

 

 

No this was about the Brighton game

[Heron]

5 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

Missed the point. I'm saying that we can't just automatically blame defeats on fatigue only nomatter what, even in our current situation. It's still possible to play better.

I'm not missing the point at all. You are saying folk are blaming every defeat on fatigue. That's bollocks. They aren't.

 

They are blaming results on fatigue, when fatigue is a factor and probably the largest contributory factor.

 

They're only blaming two league results on fatigue.

 

It is always possible to have played better because humans are playing, there'll always be imperfections. No one is saying the team played well tonight, they are just saying that a fully fit, unfatigued side plays better and that these lads deserve some leeway.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Heron

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, dcmk said:

It's a super competitive league mate. 

 

Luton very nearly got a result again the league leaders just yesterday.

 

Most of those results have been when we have had a depleted squad.. don't you think it's overly harsh to expect better results when we are being forced to play the same players every 3 days?

 

 

We were 2-1 up against Wolves and getting Ranthrough time and again. Neto had Burn on toast.  At that point we needed to bring on Livra and Howe did not. 
 

There’s things we could and should be doing better. Overall I expected us to fall back this season because of the extra games and the likelihood of more injuries and the fact our squad is a bit thin.  Some regression is expected. But overall - we should be doing a little better away from home. If I know Howe as a manager at all, he won’t find this away form acceptable or excusable because of injuries and fatigue. The performances and results have been bad. 

[madras]

4 minutes ago, Shak said:

With our lack of squad depth we're just gonna have more games like this than most teams in and around us.

 

It's not just the fatigue, it's the fact that some days individual players just aren't on it.

 

Was pretty obvious that Isak wasn't on his game tonight for one reason or another but we just had to persist with him. Same for Joelinton and Gordon, to name but two.

 

Maybe we go on and lose anyway, but if we'd been able to bring on Wilson, Willock and Barnes for those three you'd imagine the last half hour have had a decent chance of working out better for us.

Isak is still playing his way back in. He shouldn't be playing 90s but he's doing it for the team.

 

It's been since day 1. Tonali wouldn't have played V Villa if Willock or Longstaff had been fit......it seems like its been like that all season

 

[Yorkie]

5 minutes ago, Shak said:

Maybe we go on and lose anyway, but if we'd been able to bring on Wilson, Willock and Barnes for those three you'd imagine the last half hour have had a decent chance of working out better for us.

 

Yeah that's the other thing about no subs... there's the fatigue but there's also the complete inability to make meaningful changes to our play. It's an incredibly limiting issue and it goes beyond just tiredness. 

[Erikse]

3 minutes ago, Heron said:

I'm not missing the point at all. You are saying folk are blaming every defeat in fatigue. That's bollocks. They aren't.

 

They are blaming results on fatigue, when fatigue is a factor and probably the largest contributory factor.

 

They're only blaming two league results on fatigue.

 

It is always possible to have played better because humans are playing, there'll always be imperfections. No one is saying the team played well tonight, they are just saying that a fully fit, unfatigued side plays better and that these lads deserve some leeway.

 

I said "Just feels a bit like we blame almost every loss on fatigue right now."

 

You see the "right now"? As in the latest losses, like Dortmund, Bournemouth, Everton.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Erikse