LFEE Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 31 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Since Ashworth left we’ve: sold 2 of our best youngsters in 2 critical positions. Legitimately costing us over £100m+ Signed Joelinton onto a massive contract when he was probably best sold signed Gordon (which is good) to a new contract Failed to sign on Isak causing us uncertainty and disruption this summer at the least spent £70m on Wolte spent £55m on Wissa spent £55m on Elanga spent £45m on Ramsey spent £35m on Thiaw spant £5m on Ramsdale for a loan spent £15m on Osula and likely to make £25m in sale value lost out on about a dozen targets ranging from Guehi to Etikite to Sesko Got Kelly for free and then sold him for £20m in the next window Not signed a new contract for Tino which is becoming a major issue sold Isak for £130m but it caused mass disruption to the summer sold Minteh for £30m - his value has likely increased sold Anderson for £35m his value has atleast doubled. And in return we signed Vlad for £20m. Essentially selling Anderson for £15m and he’s now worth at least £70m I think that’s 90% of the key first team activity over the last 22 months transfer and contract wise (not including extensions for Schar and Burn). It’s a mixed bag at best maybe 5 out of 10 probably a 4 imo. 2 years prior to that brought us: - Trippier for £10m - Isak for £60m - Tonali for £55m and an extension - Bruno for £35m and an extension and a release clause that has expired - Burn for £10m - Pope for £10m - Botman for £35m - Tino for £40m - Barnes for £45m - Hall for £35m - Wood in and out for £20m a piece - Gordon £45m Thwres more but that’s 8.5 out of 10 at worst. It’s the quality that got us our trophy and CL football. It’s night and day transfer wise since Ashworth and Staveley and co left. Our pull in the transfer market has fallen off a cliff since Staveley left. The profile of player we sign and sell has gone entirely in the wrong direction since Ashworth left. None of that had anything to with Ashworth though so there is that one fly in the ointment with your argument Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverThere Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 minutes ago, LFEE said: None of that had anything to with Ashworth though so there is that one fly in the ointment with your argument True. It's also true the recruitment policy fell off a cliff though, for reasons I don't quite comprehend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 22 minutes ago, Interpolic said: I keep seeing this about next step, next level, whatever. The next level is challenging for the title every season. Or let's say qualifying for the CL every single season, if you're breaking it down more finely. To do this we would need comparable revenue to the obvious six clubs. It's going to take an absolute age unless the rules change. Until then this (regular CL qualification, some good cup runs) is likely as good as it gets. I'm alright with that. It's not reasonable to demand the 7th or 8th top revenue club qualifies for the CL every season. And our "talent ID" may have regressed of late seemingly but you're taking all nuance out of that for whatever reasons. The nuance being we couldn't sign a proper player for 2 seasons, last summer was a mess with Isak and no DOF, and numerous players turned us down for these clubs we're expected by some to outperform. Your posts about anything and everything regarding NUFC are completely miserable tbh, and I'm baffled that there are so many of you like this atm when in relative terms this is one of the best and most promising times to support the club. What are you arguing for? 50th percentile returns? lmao Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, Jagten said: What are you arguing for? 50th percentile returns? lmao I'm out, you're a miserable prat and you're extremely patronising with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, OverThere said: True. It's also true the recruitment policy fell off a cliff though, for reasons I don't quite comprehend I have no idea if Nickson has just been pushed to the side, and Andy/Eddie now have final say, but I'm pretty sure Nickson had a huge part in targeting some of our best players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, OverThere said: True. It's also true the recruitment policy fell off a cliff though, for reasons I don't quite comprehend PSR and the pool of players to go from a top 6 team to higher when financially hamstrung and wanting to choose us over our top of the table rivals very small. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, LFEE said: PSR and the pool of players to go from a top 6 team to higher when financially hamstrung and wanting to choose us over our top of the table rivals very small. After Ashworth, we've had no one, Mitchell, then no one again. It's not exactly a high bar to be considered our best SD. He fucking loved wheels too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Interpolic said: I keep seeing this about next step, next level, whatever. The next level is challenging for the title every season. Or let's say qualifying for the CL every single season, if you're breaking it down more finely. To do this we would need comparable revenue to the obvious six clubs. It's going to take an absolute age unless the rules change. Until then this (regular CL qualification, some good cup runs) is likely as good as it gets. I'm alright with that. It's not reasonable to demand the 7th or 8th top revenue club qualifies for the CL every season. And our "talent ID" may have regressed of late seemingly but you're taking all nuance out of that for whatever reasons. The nuance being we couldn't sign a proper player for 2 seasons, last summer was a mess with Isak and no DOF, and numerous players turned us down for these clubs we're expected by some to outperform. Your posts about anything and everything regarding NUFC are completely miserable tbh, and I'm baffled that there are so many of you like this atm when in relative terms this is one of the best and most promising times to support the club. Tbf Villa have challenged for CL 3 seasons straight. It can be done but it shouldn’t be the baseline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Identifying profiles and having pull to sign high reputation players left with Ashworth and Staveley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibierski Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: I don’t want to re litigate it. But Athony Elanga is not a very good footballer at this level. Even if he becomes an effective player this needs to be watershed moment in our transfer approach Ala Antony at Man U. I don’t rate Amorim but Man U’s transfer business has been better since they admitted their previous approach was yielding poor results. Is it better? The previous approach was overpaying. Antony was fine if he was signed for circa £40m, not double that. This summer they’ve over paid for Cunha to get it in instalments and he’s scored 3 goals. Overpaid for Sesko. It’s the same stuff. Mbuemo the good one, but that’s paying a high fee but for someone who was the most sure thing to get good results. We just need to move away from buying high price and be willing to take some gambles in Europe for less. Like even if we’ve overpaid for Thaiw compared to earlier in window when he was less, he was still a good gamble considering Guehi was looking at £70m the previous summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) People criticise Eddie for buying overpriced Premier League experienced players then we get Man Utd given as an example of a team who’ve sorted out their failing transfer strategy because they paid massive fuckloads for PL proven Cunha & Mbeumo and bought Sesko who cost massive fuckloads and has done fuck all so far Edited January 3 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 It's way too early to be comparing Elanga with Antony at Man Utd FFS. He cost £90m and failed over a prolonged period of time. Silly to even be thinking in those terms yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobsonsWonderland Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 The signings we made in the first two seasons of Howe were always going to massively improve the team, simply from the base being so low. Any transfer we make now is to improve or consolidate our top 6 hopes. Once we do that it's harder again to get the players we need to challenge for the league. I know CD always brings up Aston Villa but I think that is a mix of Top 6 squad, a brilliant manager and other big clubs failing. I wish we could challenge for the title tomorrow or make expensive failures in the transfer market without a care in the world but that's not the cards we have been dealt with. It's more likely Villa, spurs and ourselves will be in and around the top 6 as and when each team puts in a strong season. The only difference is that when we fail we don't have the ability to spend 400 million in one window Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, The College Dropout said: Tbf Villa have challenged for CL 3 seasons straight. It can be done but it shouldn’t be the baseline. In that 3 years they've qualified once, nearly qualified once. 22/23 they were 10 points behind us in 4th. Same 3 years we've qualified twice and the other year we were 8 points behind them in 4th. How is their record of challenging for the CL the last 3 years better than ours? It's clearly worse. Edit - unless you're including this season, which we're only halfway through. Edited January 3 by Interpolic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibierski Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, Interpolic said: In that 3 years they've qualified once, nearly qualified once. 22/23 they were 10 points behind us in 4th. Same 3 years we've qualified twice and the other year we were 8 points behind them in 4th. How is their record of challenging for the CL the last 3 years better than ours? It's clearly worse. Our recent one was finishing 5th, which is then all down to country coefficient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, Sibierski said: Our recent one was finishing 5th, which is then all down to country coefficient. I didn't say otherwise? It's CL qualification, doesn't matter. I've said where teams were versus 4th for years where that was CL (I think). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, Sibierski said: Is it better? The previous approach was overpaying. Antony was fine if he was signed for circa £40m, not double that. This summer they’ve over paid for Cunha to get it in instalments and he’s scored 3 goals. Overpaid for Sesko. It’s the same stuff. Mbuemo the good one, but that’s paying a high fee but for someone who was the most sure thing to get good results. We just need to move away from buying high price and be willing to take some gambles in Europe for less. Like even if we’ve overpaid for Thaiw compared to earlier in window when he was less, he was still a good gamble considering Guehi was looking at £70m the previous summer Cunha, Sesko and Mbeumo are good players. Whether they succeed or not is down to Man U. If they sold Cunha in the summer they would get their £60m back. We would not make our £55m back on Elanga or Wissa or £45m on Ramsey. If we signed Guehi for £60m he would still be worth £60m or more come the summer. If he’s fit he’s starting for England at the World Cup. Guehi’s stature in the game has grown since we were linked with him. He’s going to have his pick of nearly every club in the world. I like the Thiaw deal now and I was sceptical of the Guehi transfer. But I now think Guehi would’ve been a fantastic signing. He usually brings great composure and leadership and that’s what we need to keep as we phase out Schar and Burn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 55 minutes ago, Interpolic said: In that 3 years they've qualified once, nearly qualified once. 22/23 they were 10 points behind us in 4th. Same 3 years we've qualified twice and the other year we were 8 points behind them in 4th. How is their record of challenging for the CL the last 3 years better than ours? It's clearly worse. Edit - unless you're including this season, which we're only halfway through. I’m counting this season as their third year. They’re on track for an 80 point season at the halfway point and currently sit 2nd in the league. If they only collect the same amount of points as we’ve managed so far in the final 19 games they would still be challenging for CL. They’ve been consistent - actually improving. 68 points + Europa QF, 66 points + CL QF & FA Cup semi is more impressive imo and if if if they can get 75 points or more that would be progress again. We have done wonders to qualify twice. But we’ve not sustained a challenge in back to back seasons let alone 3. Europa League football and a 6th place finish from here would be a gigantic success from our current position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 21 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Cunha, Sesko and Mbeumo are good players. Whether they succeed or not is down to Man U. If they sold Cunha in the summer they would get their £60m back. We would not make our £55m back on Elanga or Wissa or £45m on Ramsey. If we signed Guehi for £60m he would still be worth £60m or more come the summer. If he’s fit he’s starting for England at the World Cup. Guehi’s stature in the game has grown since we were linked with him. He’s going to have his pick of nearly every club in the world. I like the Thiaw deal now and I was sceptical of the Guehi transfer. But I now think Guehi would’ve been a fantastic signing. He usually brings great composure and leadership and that’s what we need to keep as we phase out Schar and Burn. Geuhi might have come here for £60m, done an Elanga and been shite and we’d have lost money on him. Wissa might bang in 20 goals this season, propel us to some silverware and a CL qualification. And who will care if we lose money on him because he’s hitting the back end of his career. It’ll be irrelevant to fans and we’d still get a decent fee for a consistent 20+ goal a season striker. And so on. You’re talking about what you think would have happened and also what you think will happen, then presenting your opinions as definite outcomes. Life doesn’t work like that. Edited January 3 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Geuhi might have come here for £60m, done an Elanga and been shite and we’d have lost money on him. Wissa might bang in 20 goals this season, propel us to some silverware and a CL qualification. And who will care if we lose money on him because he’s hitting the back end of his career. It’ll be irrelevant to fans. And so on. You’re talking about what you think would have happened and also what you think will happen, then presenting your opinions as definite outcomes. This is why I say you have to watch football with your eyes. Whether they perform excellent or not - Marc Guehi is a good footballer and so is Cunha. Highly regarded in the game - even if he flopped here he would get a move to a good club for good money. Cunha semi flopped at Atleti and was sold for a profit (Mendes fuckery). you’re theorising someone that may end up at Liverpool or Real Madrid might have flopped for us. Elanga and Wissa aren’t players of that stature in the game. They could do well and still only break even this summer or next. Wissa it’s just age. Elanga just doesn’t have the technical ability or reputation to justify the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: I’m counting this season as their third year. They’re on track for an 80 point season at the halfway point and currently sit 2nd in the league. If they only collect the same amount of points as we’ve managed so far in the final 19 games they would still be challenging for CL. They’ve been consistent - actually improving. 68 points + Europa QF, 66 points + CL QF & FA Cup semi is more impressive imo and if if if they can get 75 points or more that would be progress again. We have done wonders to qualify twice. But we’ve not sustained a challenge in back to back seasons let alone 3. Europa League football and a 6th place finish from here would be a gigantic success from our current position. Fair enough, we're splitting hairs though imo even if they qualify this year and we don't come close. Cos I'd throw our cup success in and say we're about even. It's very close and both clubs are over-achieving versus their budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: This is why I say you have to watch football with your eyes. Whether they perform excellent or not - Marc Guehi is a good footballer and so is Cunha. Highly regarded in the game - even if he flopped here he would get a move to a good club for good money. Cunha semi flopped at Atleti and was sold for a profit (Mendes fuckery). you’re theorising someone that may end up at Liverpool or Real Madrid might have flopped for us. Elanga and Wissa aren’t players of that stature in the game. They could do well and still only break even this summer or next. Wissa it’s just age. Elanga just doesn’t have the technical ability or reputation to justify the money. You’ve just done it again. Presenting speculation as facts because it fits with your opinions. I’m only speculating because it demonstrates that what TCD is extremely confident will happen, may not actually happen as there are other plausible scenarios available. Because life isn’t binary, it’s filled with possibilities. And anytime someone thinks they can see exactly what will happen, just pause to remember Isak and how his move to Liverpool played out. Football’s a funny owld game. Edited January 3 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, Jagten said: I think Barnes is actually pretty good, but I don’t think it was great resource allocation given he’s a borderline starter. Wissa is also pretty good, but he just cost way too much. We sold Maxi to enable us to replace him with Barnes and sign Livramento. It was a fantastic piece of business all round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 35 minutes ago, Interpolic said: Fair enough, we're splitting hairs though imo even if they qualify this year and we don't come close. Cos I'd throw our cup success in and say we're about even. It's very close and both clubs are over-achieving versus their budget. I'd add to this as well by saying there is vital context that we're wilfully ignoring if we're just looking at consecutive seasons of challenging for the CL as a means to compare the clubs, mainly the adversity that each club has faced. We had an unprecedented injury crisis in 23/24, I've personally never seen our players drop like flies like that in 30-odd years of supporting the club. We were 8 points off a CL place in the end, do I think we'd have managed another 6-10 points without the ridiculous run of injuries? Probably yeah and that would have meant 3 consecutive seasons of challenging. We lost our best player in the summer due to him being tapped up and being in a radge, again I think we'd be better off this season if he was here and happy. I can't recall Villa overcoming any such adversity re injuries or having to sell their best players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) I’d say us and Villa were on almost identical trajectories. Both clubs were in a very shitty situation, both had been through relegations, Villa got their new ambitious owners a year before us, we’ve had our manager a year longer than them. And we originally wanted the manager they have, but he said no to us. Both clubs had been financially stifled by their former owners, both are historically “big” clubs but are now being stifled by snidey PSR rules. Both clubs now in mix for Champions League consistently. We’ve won a trophy. Am sure they’ll win one soon. We’ve even both switched from Castore to Adidas. Edited January 3 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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